'On encountering racism at White Hart Lane'

[Wellspurs]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Tull

A black player who suffered racism 100 years ago.

 

[MR_BEN]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Tull

A black player who suffered racism 100 years ago.

Ah, in which case an absolutely ludicrous comment by cosmic who should know better.

We are a million miles from the situation back then, yes it still happens - but only by a few idiots.

 

[Flightrisker]

The situation in England has certainly improved. Russia, Italy and a few others are still years behind. The "socially acceptable" racism is more or less gone, at least in an outwardly vocal way. Still clear with some people though that you don't need to scratch the surface a lot to see their feelings on the matter. As Stewart Lee would say people have just had to learn to me more creative with their racism.

It's something I just cannot get my head around. Some people are just assholes I guess.

 

[Nocando]

Abuse? What abuse? If I read it correctly, the guy in question wasn't even shouting at Ade or Gallas, he was moaning about them with his friend. How is that abuse? Is that really one of those little things you were addressing above? The way I see it, the only one who could probably be accused of abusing anyone in this context would be the guy who wrote the blog entry, by screaming racist at that other guy's face. That seems pretty abusive to me, specially when non of the other guys was talking to him.

But either way, your post didn't even tried to give an answer to the question I raised (even though you did addressed it at first), so I don't understand why you even bothered to quote my post. But, well, at list you didn't limited your self to simply sighing or rolling your eyes via an smiley, so thank you I guess.

Seems like this could be similar to the Ron Atkinson case here? Not a racist person, indeed a promoter of black players at a time when some clubs refused to have any. One totally unacceptable comment, career in football rightly over. If this individual loses the right to come to the Lane what an example to others.

Here's n interesting thought why don't we allow the club to be given a chance to investigate and come to their own conclusion before reaching yours without any evidence.

Seems incredible these things are being said. To me it seems that some people will do whatever they can and make whatever assumptions they can in order to protect a situation (or maybe a set of fans). Either that or they genuinely believe that you can say whatever you like as long as it was to friends, even if it is said in public.

Unbelievable.

 

[The Lilywhites]

I'm sure they will root this bloke out and ban him. There's plenty more mouthy twats that need to give their seats up as well.

 

[Spurs in Belgium]

Can I just be clear - the atmosphere in the Park Lane can be electric. Inter earlier this season, Milan, Fulham in the cup a few years back. I told him to shut up, told him to fuck off and then told a steward/the club. I don't want people like him sitting anywhere in WHL, or any football ground for that matter.

I'm not tarring a whole end, neither am I saying we're a 'racist ground'. I sit there pretty much every game I go to if there are tickets left in that end. Sorry if I've made you think this. Just wanted to point out where it was happening. I love Spurs and think everyone can agree there's no room for people like this at the club.

Am I reading this right? You told the guy to F@@k Off? Did you not do something that could have been equally as offensive to some others around you? Seems a bit hypocritical if this is the case. I wouldn't be too impressed if I was with my kids.

 

[3Dnata]

I had the misfortune to be sitting with a bunch of mongs who when Ade scored amused themselves with comments about him only scoring because it's sunny.

 

[Flightrisker]

Am I reading this right? You told the guy to F@@k Off? Did you not do something that could have been equally as offensive to some others around you? Seems a bit hypocritical if this is the case. I wouldn't be too impressed if I was with my kids.

Telling a racist to fuck off isn't in the same ball park as a kid hearing the f word. And they are hearing it being used for it's best possible purpose but just in some random video game or film. It's a very petty point to bring into a serious issue like racist abuse.

 

[Spurs in Belgium]

Telling a racist to fuck off isn't in the same ball park as a kid hearing the f word. And they are hearing it being used for it's best possible purpose but just in some random video game or film. It's a very petty point to bring into a serious issue like racist abuse.

That is your opinion. Racist abuse isn't right and neither is telling people to FO (IMO). You can get banned from WHL for both offences .

 

[Flightrisker]

That is your opinion. Racist abuse isn't right and neither is telling people to FO (IMO).

That's your opinion and that's fine. But one is a criminal offence. I'd rather we have neither, and if you were complaining about some random guy mouthing off all game swearing I'd say you have a point, he's being a dick. But you're having a go at a guy that was standing up to a racist piece of shit. You're point looks very petty.

It seems there's a lot of people desperate to vilify the guy here. He's either too aggressive for telling him to fuck off or he's too much a wimp for not decking him. I think it's fair to say he found a good middle ground.

If I was there with kids I'd have been MUCH more offended by the swearing racists than the swearing guy that was standing up to the racists. And their swearing was much worse.

Anyway, seems some people are just determined to make this about the guy, the other people in Park Lane, other potential innocent people that might get accused of being racist... everything but the racists.

 

[Spurs in Belgium]

That's your opinion and that's fine. But one is a criminal offence. I'd rather we have neither, and if you were complaining about some random guy mouthing off all game swearing I'd say you have a point, he's being a dick. But you're having a go at a guy that was standing up to a racist piece of shit. You're point looks very petty.

It seems there's a lot of people desperate to vilify the guy here. He's either too aggressive for telling him to fuck off or he's too much a wimp for not decking him. I think it's fair to say he found a good middle ground.

If I was there with kids I'd have been MUCH more offended by the swearing racists than the swearing guy that was standing up to the racists. And their swearing was much worse.

Anyway, seems some people are just determined to make this about the guy, the other people in Park Lane, other potential innocent people that might get accused of being racist... everything but the racists.

Not at all, and I hope you are not implying that I am trying to condone what was said that led to his reaction, as I don't. I admire people that have the guts to stand up for what is right, probably wasn't the best method of dealing with it though (which you don't agree with, which is fine).

 

[ralvy]

I didn't answer your question because a five year old could tell you why it makes no sense. If someone is being abusive in a discriminatory way like this guy clearly was then they deserve to have their actions questioned like this.

What does it matter that he wasn't talk to him? You don't have to be the intended target to find it highly offensive. If only people were as concerned about the victims of racial abuse as they seem to be with protecting the rights of the abusers.

Don't you get it? No one was the target, there was no intended target as there was no abuse. He wasn't talking at Gallas, Ade or any other black person, he was only talking with who ever was at his side. How the fuck is that abuse? Sure, people around him had all the right to call him on all the BS he was talking (Im sure I would have found him extremely annoying as well), but that doesn't mean he simply has to shut up because other people find him offensive. If that was the case, people should also not be allowed to discuss politics or sexuality in public either.

And finding something highly offensive isn't an argument good enough to step all over other people's rights Im afraid.

 

[Nocando]

Don't you get it? No one was the target, there was no intended target as there was no abuse. He wasn't talking at Gallas, Ade or any other black person, he was only talking with who ever was at his side. How the fuck is that abuse? Sure, people around him had all the right to call him on all the BS he was talking (Im sure I would have found him extremely annoying as well), but that doesn't mean he simply has to shut up because other people find him offensive. If that was the case, people should also not be allowed to discuss politics or sexuality in public either.

And finding something highly offensive isn't an argument good enough to step all over other people's rights Im afraid.

Serious question: Are you a lawyer and do you know what constitutes abuse and racism?

You seem to be inferring that as long as its a private conversation anything goes.

 

[Flightrisker]

Don't you get it? No one was the target, there was no intended target as there was no abuse. He wasn't talking at Gallas, Ade or any other black person, he was only talking with who ever was at his side. How the fuck is that abuse? Sure, people around him had all the right to call him on all the BS he was talking (Im sure I would have found him extremely annoying as well), but that doesn't mean he simply has to shut up because other people find him offensive. If that was the case, people should also not be allowed to discuss politics or sexuality in public either.

And finding something highly offensive isn't an argument good enough to step all over other people's rights Im afraid.

Whether Gallas was sitting next to him or was on the pitch has no relevance. He was in a public place and used language that was clearly racially abusive. Do you not see how racist language isn't only going to effect Gallas? It is also offensive to other black people, other people that receive racial abuse, people that aren't racist...

Freedom of speech doesn't over-ride the laws on discriminatory language. Again I find it amazing how people are wanting to twist this anyway they can to make it acceptable to be a racist shit. People always use freedom of speech as this shield to try to block any movement away from a society that still allows a lot of people to be racist pricks and have no repercussions. That is not what freedom of speech was intended for. If people are going to be racist/homophobic/sexist with your free speech then why on earth would you want to defend them and not the people suffering the daily abuse?

All reminds me of this

 

[nailsy]

Don't you get it? No one was the target, there was no intended target as there was no abuse. He wasn't talking at Gallas, Ade or any other black person, he was only talking with who ever was at his side. How the fuck is that abuse? Sure, people around him had all the right to call him on all the BS he was talking (Im sure I would have found him extremely annoying as well), but that doesn't mean he simply has to shut up because other people find him offensive. If that was the case, people should also not be allowed to discuss politics or sexuality in public either.

And finding something highly offensive isn't an argument good enough to step all over other people's rights Im afraid.

So it wasn't racist abuse, just racist conversation? Is that OK then?

 

[ralvy]

Serious question: Are you a lawyer and do you know what constitutes abuse and racism?

You seem to be inferring that as long as its a private conversation anything goes.

No, Im no lawyer but I do know what constitutes racism and abuse. I also know what constitutes civil liberties and human rights in case you were wondering.

Whether Gallas was sitting next to him or was on the pitch has no relevance. He was in a public place and used language that was clearly racially abusive. Do you not see how racist language isn't only going to effect Gallas? It is also offensive to other black people, other people that receive racial abuse, people that aren't racist...

Yes, I see how people around could find it offensive and/or annoying, and Im arguing that that in itself is not a reason good enough to start censoring personal conversations.

Freedom of speech doesn't over-ride the laws on discriminatory language. Again I find it amazing how people are wanting to twist this anyway they can to make it acceptable to be a racist shit. People always use freedom of speech as this shield to try to block any movement away from a society that still allows a lot of people to be racist pricks and have no repercussions. That is not what freedom of speech was intended for. If people are going to be racist/homophobic/sexist with your free speech then why on earth would you want to defend them and not the people suffering the daily abuse?

lol! So its not ok for so called racist to show abusive language but its totally ok when you are the one doing it? Tell me please, what's the difference when you're discriminating them over issues they have no control? Remember, most of them are probably so retarded that they probably don't understand why their views on human races are so stupid.

Look, Im not trying to defend racists, homophobes or whatever, Im just looking after myself. I don't like how most people who feels so strongly about this sort of issues like you seem to be totally ok with each and one of us surrendering our personal liberties to the government, all in the name of the fight against discriminatory abuse. Its pretty much what they did on the US under the flag of the war against terrorism. No, I don't like racism any more than you do, but I do feel the people in power are using our feelings in this matter as yet another way of control, and that's something that worries me way way more than people behaving like dicks with each other.

And please, give me a break, not every member from the minorities is suffering daily abuse. And. I hope, most of them ain't as stupid as to get massively offended or traumatized by it.

 

[nailsy]

SPURS AGAINST DISCRIMINATION

We do not tolerate discrimination of any sort at the Club, on the pitch or in the stands.

 

[Blackcanary]

Yes, I see how people around could find it offensive and/or annoying, and Im arguing that that in itself is not a reason good enough to start censoring personal conversations.

It was voiced in a public setting and was audible to others. We're not talking about a reported conversation that took place in a private home. If people find it offensive to have to listen to - and I would have done - then they are well within their rights to complain. They don't go to White Hart Lane to have to put up with hearing ugly racial abuse, whether it's directed at anybody or not. It's still hugely unpleasant.

 

[Flightrisker]

And please, give me a break, not every member from the minorities is suffering daily abuse. And. I hope, most of them ain't as stupid as to get massively offended or traumatized by it.

If you think that discriminated against people do not suffer daily abuse you're clearly a very sheltered person.

As for the rest of your post again it's just all boo hoo I can't believe peoples civil liberty to be racist is being infringed on. We are still a far way from being too PC on these issues. It only serves the privileged to say "hang on lets just leave things here just inc ase we go too far".

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

John Terry was sat behind you? Can't be racist, his best mate is black. Must have been talking about the colour of his boots, or you just don't understand that it is socially acceptable where he is from a la suarez, even though he's from Chingford and not Montevideo