'On encountering racism at White Hart Lane'

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Why are people saying "they ruin things"? If one idiot shouts something stupid it's hardly something to cry about for years to come.

Yes the Shelf can be questionable in its language, but you can be damned sure any atmosphere in the ground is generated by that corner. I'd rather have a stadium full of people saying **** and singing loudly for Spurs than a stadium full of prawn sandwich types that will turn to the person next to them and suggest Dawson should play right back (I've actually heard someone say that in the Paxton).

Racism is completely unacceptable. One idiot shouting something stupid once, for whatever reason, be it he was so irate with our team's performance that he could only think of something so vile to hurt the players back, or be it because he is actually racist and pops over to John Terry's for a beer after the match, should not mean the section of fans that are rowdy and responsible for what sometimes still is a good atmosphere in the ground are all retarded idiots that spout racism.

One fuckwit shouting something stupid should not cause someone to run away crying and shouting RACIST THERE HELP! Grow a pair for fucks sake, tell him to shut up and if he says mind your own business tell him to fuck off. Therefore by similar theoretical analysis, since one racist fan makes the Park Lane a racist part of the ground then one bloke standing up to it will make the Park Lane the frontline of anti-racism tackling.

Well I Imagien that thigs such as this aren't really helped by someone just telling him to "fuck off". I do understand that telling people to fuck off has been one of the UNs primary strategies in assisting the unfortunate around the globe.

The main problem with telling someone to fuck off is it generally makes them do the exact opposite- stay exactly where they are. In fact, I don't think I have ever followed the request for me to fuck off by actually leaving the person's immediate vicinity. Funnily, being told to fuck off generally makes a person reduce the distance between himself and the person who said it.

Not to be cocky for too long, but he probably did the right thing. I personally would have told a steward and not left.

However, getting into a dumb argument by telling a dumb person to fuck off is folly, as they have had a lot more practice at dumb arguments than you have.

 

[ralvy]

It was voiced in a public setting and was audible to others. We're not talking about a reported conversation that took place in a private home. If people find it offensive to have to listen to - and I would have done - then they are well within their rights to complain. They don't go to White Hart Lane to have to put up with hearing ugly racial abuse, whether it's directed at anybody or not. It's still hugely unpleasant.

Yes, people have every right to complain about it, and that doesn't change the fact that the guys having the conversation have also every right to ignore the complains and keep talking with each other (though at the Lane that would probably get you kicked out).

And again, in the situation presented at the OP there was no abuse as there was no one receiving it, how can that be abuse?

If you think that discriminated against people do not suffer daily abuse you're clearly a very sheltered person.

Fact is, not every member from a minority is being victim of constant discrimination (which is what I said in my previous post). And maybe is actually the fact that Im not as sheltered as you think I am and, therefore, not allowing myself to get heavily brainwashed what allows me to see past the bullshit the likes of you keep spreading.

As for the rest of your post again it's just all boo hoo I can't believe peoples civil liberty to be racist is being infringed on. We are still a far way from being too PC on these issues. It only serves the privileged to say "hang on lets just leave things here just inc ase we go too far".

If that's really what you got from all that I said, then lets better end this discussion here as you either are not paying enough attention or are simply unwilling/unable to understand what Im saying.

 

[Flightrisker]

Ralvy, you have invented this new rule that racist abuse only counts if the intended target is within earshot and therefore you are making this debate unworkable. Look if I walk into a bar and start talking about how I hate Obama cos he's a black c***t and a n****er etc do you honestly think that my defence that Obama cannot hear me somehow excuses my actions and makes me bulletproof to any kind of prosecution/repercussions?


And regarding the daily abuse issue of perhaps I was exsaggerating to make a point in relation to your making light of a serious issue. I wouldn't say it's far of. My girlfriend gets some form of abuse virtually any time she's out, mostly when I'm not there but that's not always a deterrent. Black people, gay people and trans people suffer massive amount of discrimination but in terms of actual physical/verba abuse and in society being hideously skewed in favour of the wealthy white straight male.

 

[ibbz]

Friend of mine wrote this blog on last night. Sounds lovely

http://joeminihane.com/2013/04/05/on-encountering-racism-at-white-hart-lane/

I’ve been going to White Hart Lane regularly ever since I’ve been able to afford it. These days that stretches to roughly a match every month, always with my Dad. League games, cup games, European games. I generally always sit in the Park Lane end, the bit behind the goal that can be politely described as ‘vibrant’.

Normally, this vibrancy stretches to a few blokes swearing every other word and occasionally the odd supporter clearly off their face on cocaine mouthing off about the opposition, usually to themselves. But last night, during the Europa League game against Basel, I encountered racism at White Hart Lane for the first time.

With the game winding to a close, the feeling of agitation at an average performance was all around. Most of the vitriol was being directed at Emmanuel Adebayor and William Gallas, both of whom had had poor games. Some bemoaned their average play. Others felt the the need to point out their past as Arsenal players.

One such person was the guy sitting directly behind me. With Gareth Bale receiving treatment, he launched into a lengthy tirade to the man next to him about both players, culminating with the line, “…it’s about time we got rid of those black Arsenal c**ts.”

At this point, I turned to face him and said I didn’t care for him using racist language. Rather than apologise, I was told to, “Mind my own facking business”, before being reminded that he wasn’t talking to me in the first place.

This is the first time I’ve ever been party to racism at White Hart Lane. I decided to walk out, telling the nearest steward the guy’s seat name while he stood and loudly denounced me as a ‘mug’. I got pretty wound up and started shouting to anyone who’d listen that there was a racist in our midst. Perhaps I should have stayed calm, but I find it hard unbelievable that people think it’s acceptable to focus on a person’s skin colour and take that as some kind of weakness. It’s disgusting.

I didn’t wait to see if the steward approached the guy and I doubt I’ll ever find out. I’ve tweeted the club three times about the incident and sent them an email, but imagine they’ll be powerless to do anything. That upsets me more than anything – that people can still get away with this crap.

At a time when racism in the game feels inescapable, I left White Hart Lane last night inconsolable. I don’t want to share my beloved Tottenham with this guy or any other racist for that matter. They have no place in civilised society.

I'm an ethnic and hear Racism all the time in all walks of life, and at Spurs too.
I remember Spurs fans making monkey chants and gestures towards the Arsenal players in the 80ies and 90ies.
And I am NOT fazed. Racism exists, it is everywhere, and it can be dealt with by a word and a reminder, by all means make a comment and let the guy know he's a racist, but don't walk out - why should you walk out?
The best way is to let them know calmly and rationally, a kind reminder wont really agitate or provoke.
The guy was angry and he took it out in a racist way, I reckon a huge amount of people have racist views but keep them bottled up inside, racist language has turned into a crime, but thoughts still exist - we cannot start accusing people of Thought Crime's, but we can educate, and be compassionate about it, rather than aggressive

Pakistani's, indian's, West Indians and Africans, Bangali's and English born ethnics and others all express extreme racist views when amongst their own communities or folk, and I don't expect anything less from white English people.

 

[Flightrisker]

Abuse/discrimination from the privileged is a whole different or thing than that from the discriminated side. People live to use the reverse-o-world argument in these cases "what if it was two black guys calling Parker a white c**t"?

Firstly, have you ever honestly encountered that? I know I haven't. Secondly there's no historical context to add weight to it.white people were brutally enslaved for hundreds of years by black people. Thirdly the current days discrimination is overwhelmingly in favour of white people. Calling someone a white c*nt has no force behind it.

It's the same reason why heterophobia and sexism against men are barely even concepts. One person being a dick is very different than people being dicks because society constantly supports and enables them.

Ibbz - I commend your tolerance but honestly a kind calm message will generally fall on very deaf ears in these cases.

 

[ralvy]

Ralvy, you have invented this new rule that racist abuse only counts if the intended target is within earshot and therefore you are making this debate unworkable. Look if I walk into a bar and start talking about how I hate Obama cos he's a black c***t and a n****er etc do you honestly think that my defence that Obama cannot hear me somehow excuses my actions and makes me bulletproof to any kind of prosecution/repercussions?

No, you have totally misunderstood what I've been saying. Im saying that if no one is being abused then it can't be abuse. When people talk shit about someone behind his back then the guy they are talking about isn't actually being abused, is he?

Sure, it is racism indeed, but its not racist abuse. And if no one is being directly abused, then I honestly can't see why people shouldn't be allowed to say racists shit without being charged with a hate crime or whatever.

And regarding the daily abuse issue of perhaps I was exsaggerating to make a point in relation to your making light of a serious issue. I wouldn't say it's far of. My girlfriend gets some form of abuse virtually any time she's out, mostly when I'm not there but that's not always a deterrent. Black people, gay people and trans people suffer massive amount of discrimination but in terms of actual physical/verba abuse and in society being hideously skewed in favour of the wealthy white straight male.

The thing is, we're all being discriminated, one way or another. If you're not part of the elite, then you're being discriminated, and without you even knowing it. It doesn't really matter if you're white, black, semitic, gay, lesbian, etc. The whole system is designed to keep the status quo, and that means keeping the masses dumbed down, which in turn means that most people will remain idiots and, therefore, lots of them being racist pricks. So when you say things about the white population being privileged, I can't help but do a face palm.

But here is the real tragedy: those of us who are enlightened enough to see past all that racist bullshit are being manipulated into thinking we should give up our rights and liberties in order to fight against racism, and somehow we don't seem to realize that the only real way to do the fight is via responsible and objective education. But, as you can see, that would go against the intentions of the elite to keep us all dumbed down, and so they have decided to take advantage of the whole situation and use our good intentions to actually increase the level of control they have over us.

Yes, I know what I just said may sound like a lot of paranoiac, conspiracy theory bullshit, but one is bound to think that way after spending a couple of seasons reading a lot about the true nature of money and the modern economic system.

And, finally, just let me end by saying that Im truly sorry about what your bird has had to go through, honestly. Just because Im not as extreme when it comes to racism as you seem to be doesn't mean that I approve in the least the treatment some people from the minorities sometimes have to go through. In case you haven't noticed, Im not actually keen on society and racism, I do agree, is one of its ugliest sides.

 

[Flightrisker]

You have misunderstood the system (patriarchy) idea completely. Yes it and capatilism effectors everyone but the uber privileged who are as you say invested on keeping the status quo. However all these -isms are intersectional. A middle class straight white dude is a lot more altered for by patriarchy than a middle class gay black woman. Saying "sure we're all discriminated against" is vastly misunderstanding the increasing severity of discrimatiom as you fall further outside of the "norm".
To facepalm at the notion of white people being privileged shows a staggering unawareness of the world. (Full disclosure, I'm a straight white dude).


And your instance that again the proximity of the intended victims of abuse somehow matters continues to amaze me. They were in a public place making racial abusive comments. Does the black dude one or back have to put up with that just cos they are specifically being racist to a different black guy?

 

[midoNdefoe]

Block 32 last night was full of this sort. The tool standing next to me at one point, when Ade miscontolled a over hit pass fizzed at him, burst into a tirade of abuse at Ade culminating with him saying "I wish it was you who had got shot in that coach"

We are quick to accuse CFC and WHUFC fans of this sort of behaviour yet have our fair share of mongs amongst our support

Thats not rascist though..its just horrible.

 

[nailsy]

No, you have totally misunderstood what I've been saying. Im saying that if no one is being abused then it can't be abuse. When people talk shit about someone behind his back then the guy they are talking about isn't actually being abused, is he?

Sure, it is racism indeed, but its not racist abuse. And if no one is being directly abused, then I honestly can't see why people shouldn't be allowed to say racists shit without being charged with a hate crime or whatever.

It's abuse towards anyone of that colour. And it's offensive towards anyone who isn't racist.

 

[ralvy]

You have misunderstood the system (patriarchy) idea completely. Yes it and capatilism effectors everyone but the uber privileged who are as you say invested on keeping the status quo. However all these -isms are intersectional. A middle class straight white dude is a lot more altered for by patriarchy than a middle class gay black woman. Saying "sure we're all discriminated against" is vastly misunderstanding the increasing severity of discrimatiom as you fall further outside of the "norm".
To facepalm at the notion of white people being privileged shows a staggering unawareness of the world. (Full disclosure, I'm a straight white dude).

Oh sure, white straight males may be able to scape racial and sexiest abuse from that idiot fuck in the street, but those that really makes them privileged? Aren't they as entangled as everybody else in a system that benefits no one but world bankers and anyone who's willing to do their dirty work? Don't they suffer as much as everybody else in their futile attempts to reach economic stability, all while their lives are slowly and painfully sucked out of their joy and meaning? So tell me, what's so beneficial about being born a white straight male? The fact that people will have to dig just a little bit dipper if they want to hurt your feelings or that it will be just a little bit less improbable for you to being victim of a senseless and random violent act?

And your instance that again the proximity of the intended victims of abuse somehow matters continues to amaze me. They were in a public place making racial abusive comments. Does the black dude one or back have to put up with that just cos they are specifically being racist to a different black guy?

You still don't get what I said, which was that in the scenario brought up in the OP there really weren't any intended victims of abuse as there was no abuse to begin with. Just saying racist things in itself isn't abuse unless you're aiming it at someone with the intention to hurt his feelings, which the guys from the OP weren't doing as they didn't intended for the subject of their conversation to listen. Sure, someone else from the same depicted race in their conversation might happen to listen, but that doesn't make it abuse either as he wasn't an intended target (even if he might not interpret it that way).

And BTW, I haven't said that anyone has to put up with anything that they aren't comfortable with, but censoring people's conversations isn't the answer.

 

[Flightrisker]

Ravly, Ravly... we're just going around in circles here.

1. How am I privileged by being a straight white dude? In virtually every way. I will never be shouted at in the streets because of my choice of clothing, I will never be passed over for a job because someone doubts if I could do it due to my skin colour/ gender (I was a team manager in a corporate company at 22 - If I had the exact same abilities and was a black women there's no chance that would have happened), I will never have people judge my actions on my skin colour, I will almost certainly never be the victim of a sexual assault at a party, I will always be catered for by default (go to the cinema on any day and see what % of the leads are white males, usually it's 70%+), I will never be blamed for any sexual assault should it happen to me, no one will ever insinuate that I was probably asking for it, I'll be able to come on to a football forum and make some comments about football and not have a gaggling group of idiots be completely unable to respond without making reference to the fact that I am of the gender they are attracted to, no one will ever presuppose anything negative about me due to my gender/skincolour/sexuality where as if I'm a women/black/gay this is absolutely not the case.

I could go on for a long time here, if you don't understand what white male privilege is I would strongly urge you to look into it.



And as for your second bit... I don't know what to do here... you just keep making up this rule that because they didn't hear him it's ok... that's not how it works... But I've already explained that and I'm unsure how else to put it... you cant just go around saying racist shit and using the "they didn't hear it" defence... and lets say you could, lets imagine that thats the law here.... why would you want it that way?

 

[RickyVilla]

Gordon Bennett you do drivel on.

 

[ralvy]

Ravly, Ravly... we're just going around in circles here.

1. How am I privileged by being a straight white dude? In virtually every way. I will never be shouted at in the streets because of my choice of clothing, I will never be passed over for a job because someone doubts if I could do it due to my skin colour/ gender (I was a team manager in a corporate company at 22 - If I had the exact same abilities and was a black women there's no chance that would have happened), I will never have people judge my actions on my skin colour, I will almost certainly never be the victim of a sexual assault at a party, I will always be catered for by default (go to the cinema on any day and see what % of the leads are white males, usually it's 70%+), I will never be blamed for any sexual assault should it happen to me, no one will ever insinuate that I was probably asking for it, I'll be able to come on to a football forum and make some comments about football and not have a gaggling group of idiots be completely unable to respond without making reference to the fact that I am of the gender they are attracted to, no one will ever presuppose anything negative about me due to my gender/skincolour/sexuality where as if I'm a women/black/gay this is absolutely not the case.

I could go on for a long time here, if you don't understand what white male privilege is I would strongly urge you to look into it.

So, according to you, not being the victim of silly prejudices as frequently as members from other races/genders by an small percentage of the population is actually being privileged? So then I guess you must think people from the minorities which don't receive such privileges are actually getting a fair deal by society, right?

See, this is exactly my point, there's no such thing as white male privilege as white, middle (or lower) class males aren't getting any kind of special treatment, its just that some people from the minorities are actually receiving a worst, more unfair deal than most of them.

And as for your second bit... I don't know what to do here... you just keep making up this rule that because they didn't hear him it's ok... that's not how it works... But I've already explained that and I'm unsure how else to put it... you cant just go around saying racist shit and using the "they didn't hear it" defence... and lets say you could, lets imagine that thats the law here.... why would you want it that way?

No, that's not what Im saying, Im saying that its not abuse if no one is actually being abused. Why can't you just comprehend that? I have repeated it over and over since we started this discussion.

And BTW, just as long as you aren't inciting hatred, then you can indeed just go around saying racist things. Its not illegal to be racist and its not illegal to express racists opinions. Was the guy inciting hate? While I don't think so, that's not for me, you or that angry guy who wrote the blog to decide. I'll leave that to the court.

 

[Flightrisker]

So, according to you, not being the victim of silly prejudices as frequently as members from other races/genders by an small percentage of the population is actually being privileged? So then I guess you must think people from the minorities which don't receive such privileges are actually getting a fair deal by society, right?

See, this is exactly my point, there's no such thing as white male privilege as white, middle (or lower) class males aren't getting any kind of special treatment, its just that some people from the minorities are actually receiving a worst, more unfair deal than most of them.




No, that's not what Im saying, Im saying that its not abuse if no one is actually being abused. Why can't you just comprehend that? I have repeated it over and over since we started this discussion.

And BTW, just as long as you aren't inciting hatred, then you can indeed just go around saying racist things. Its not illegal to be racist and its not illegal to express racists opinions. Was the guy inciting hate? While I don't think so, that's not for me, you or that angry guy who wrote the blog to decide. I'll leave that to the court.

If you don't get white male privilege then you not sure where to go with this. Thisus a pretty good explanation on it

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

 

[ibbz]

Ravly, Ravly... we're just going around in circles here.

1. How am I privileged by being a straight white dude? In virtually every way. I will never be shouted at in the streets because of my choice of clothing, I will never be passed over for a job because someone doubts if I could do it due to my skin colour/ gender (I was a team manager in a corporate company at 22 - If I had the exact same abilities and was a black women there's no chance that would have happened), I will never have people judge my actions on my skin colour, I will almost certainly never be the victim of a sexual assault at a party, I will always be catered for by default (go to the cinema on any day and see what % of the leads are white males, usually it's 70%+), I will never be blamed for any sexual assault should it happen to me, no one will ever insinuate that I was probably asking for it, I'll be able to come on to a football forum and make some comments about football and not have a gaggling group of idiots be completely unable to respond without making reference to the fact that I am of the gender they are attracted to, no one will ever presuppose anything negative about me due to my gender/skincolour/sexuality where as if I'm a women/black/gay this is absolutely not the case.

I could go on for a long time here, if you don't understand what white male privilege is I would strongly urge you to look into it.



And as for your second bit... I don't know what to do here... you just keep making up this rule that because they didn't hear him it's ok... that's not how it works... But I've already explained that and I'm unsure how else to put it... you cant just go around saying racist shit and using the "they didn't hear it" defence... and lets say you could, lets imagine that thats the law here.... why would you want it that way?

White man privilege is a thing of the past.
Employers, especially in Retail will more likely employ an oversea's Asian - want proof? Take a walk around most Borough's in London

And have a look at the Civil Service and NHS - you'll see lots of Africans and Asians (lower management, front of house, admin roles) - incompetent ones, given jobs to make up quota's.

 

[punky]

Flightstriker, you have an extremely narrow view of the world...

I will never be shouted at in the streets because of my choice of clothing,

You've obviously not heard of goths, punks, and the other of dozens of demographics of straight, white men that are assaulted precisely because of their choice of clothing.

I will never be passed over for a job because someone doubts if I could do it due to my skin colour/ gender

You seem awfully confident on that but I don;t suppose you would be able to share any proof that non-white and females are completely devoid of any prejudices

I will never have people judge my actions on my skin colour

Yet you seem to be awfully quick to judge straight, white men?

I will almost certainly never be the victim of a sexual assault at a party,

Possibly but sex assaults on men is an extremely underreported and unexplored area suffering from many of the influences that discouraged women from reporting domestic violence such as fear, embarassment and worry that society won't take them seriously

I will never be blamed for any sexual assault should it happen to me,

You will be blamed for non=existant sex assault though. If you are lucky for the alleged victim to come clean you will still suffer from violence, worry, the possible loss of your job, family, friends, liberty or even your life.

I'll be able to come on to a football forum and make some comments about football and not have a gaggling group of idiots be completely unable to respond without making reference to the fact that I am of the gender they are attracted to, no one will ever presuppose anything negative about me due to my gender/skincolour/sexuality where as if I'm a women/black/gay this is absolutely not the case.

If you post seriously then you will be taken seriously. There are numerous women on here that act accordingly.

I don't know what era you think you're currently living in. Possibly Victortian London but you need to seriously drop the white male apologist bullshit and open your eyes to the 21st century reality.

 

[Flightrisker]

White man privilege is a thing of the past.
Employers, especially in Retail will more likely employ an oversea's Asian - want proof? Take a walk around most Borough's in London

And have a look at the Civil Service and NHS - you'll see lots of Africans and Asians (lower management, front of house, admin roles) - incompetent ones, given jobs to make up quota's.

White male privilege is a thing of the past? Are you fucking kidding me? Let me just get this straight.... Racism and sexism are gone? Is that right? Fucking hell why didn't anyone tell us?! That's awesome.

And yeah... lower paid entry level jobs tend to be filled with more ethic groups... I'm not sure how that helps your point.
And just read your last sentence... the Africans and Asians have been given their jobs despite their incompetence due to quotas.... I thought racism was dead?

Also while we're on it quotas are needed because we live in a racially broken system.

 

[Flightrisker]

(Lots of quoting going on here so I'll try and reply inline)

You've obviously not heard of goths, punks, and the other of dozens of demographics of straight, white men that are assaulted precisely because of their choice of clothing.

Sure I have, and I hate they they get shit for that, people are assholes. However comparing that to harassment/assault based on ethnicity/gender is not right. No one chooses their gender or ethnicity. It's not something you can ever take off. Don't take this as me defending those giving shit to anyone choosing to dress how they want, but the two issues are very different. Also with abuse based on gender we're talking about over half the world here. So the impact if the normalized abuse is far greater.

You seem awfully confident on that but I don;t suppose you would be able to share any proof that non-white and females are completely devoid of any prejudices

People can on an individual basis be whatever they want. You could be a black slave 400 years ago and down right hate every white person you meet. Are you racist by definition, sure. Is it the same thing as the people supporting the system enslaving you? Of course not. Racism and sexism only work in so much as they are ingrained into society. It's liek the idea of someone being hetrophobic or calling me a white straight c*nt. The words white and straight have no value in that context, they don't work as a pejorative. Again this is because of the historical weight and the current social system.

Yet you seem to be awfully quick to judge straight, white men?

Missing the point fully here. I'm not judging white straight men when I say white straight men have shit much easier than others. I'm one too. That's not my fault or the fault of any others. But if you ignore your privilege it's pretty ignorant. As that article I posted to says it's basically the lowest possible difficulty setting for life. Sure your life won't necessarily be easy, but it'll be a lot easier than that same life would have been had you also been a women, black, gay, trans etc

Possibly but sex assaults on men is an extremely underreported and unexplored area suffering from many of the influences that discouraged women from reporting domestic violence such as fear, embarassment and worry that society won't take them seriously

Yup, and that's another horrible product of the patriarchy. Men are to be unfeeling and tough and women are to be the emotional child bearers. It's quite unlikely that the gap between number of women assaulted and number of men would be brought much closer though as I'd say there are also countless unreported cases by women due to fear, etc

You will be blamed for non=existant sex assault though. If you are lucky for the alleged victim to come clean you will still suffer from violence, worry, the possible loss of your job, family, friends, liberty or even your life.

A massive myth of modern society. Firstly the vast vast majority of false rape claims are ones where there was a rape but the wrong person was convicted. The media obsession over what you've described where the "alleged victim comes clean" is a huge rarity. False rape claims are no more common that false claims of any other crime yet we hear about it so often you'd think it was a common occurrence. Also just look at the shit actual rape victims have to go through, did you follow the Steubenville case? She was raped and they even kept and sent around evidence and she still had to go through a public court and have people from her school send her death threats. The likelihood that women or men would go though that just to get at someone is very low, if anything their own name will be the one tarnished, that's how fucked up things are.

If you post seriously then you will be taken seriously. There are numerous women on here that act accordingly.

I probably just notice the "bad" ones but literally every time I've seen a women post on here the reply has been unable to not bring her gender into it. Not always in a very nasty way, but it's always mentioned.

I don't know what era you think you're currently living in. Possibly Victortian London but you need to seriously drop the white male apologist bullshit and open your eyes to the 21st century reality.

And I've no idea what planet you live on.



It's really depressing but I'd suggesting following https://twitter.com/EverydaySexism on twitter for as long as you can stomach it if you're into the twitter thing. Just posts from women about the daily shit that happens. Very eye opening and a very real reflection on what's actually going on.


Also I realise I'm dragging this thread way off topic now so if you'd like to leave it all there we can.

 

[spud]

There are many worthy posts in this thread applauding the action of the OP's mate for standing up to a racist, and a couple who suggest that stronger action on his part would have been appropriate. This leads me to conclude that the general consensus is that shouting down racists is an acceptable, and even desirable, course of action, and that most people would do it.

There are others who have commented on the increasingly poisonous atmosphere at the lane, and complain about the unrelentingly negative comments and abuse of the players that they hear - and are sick of enduring - at home games.

Which leads me to ask why all of these worthy people who would rip the face off anybody making a racist comment sit meekly in their seats when their neighbour is giving our players - OUR PLAYERS - dogs abuse, instead of reminding them that they are Spurs fans and should be supporting the team. In the same way that tolerance of racist comments condones and encourages racism, ignoring the type of comments described in these pages has the same effect on the atmosphere in the ground.

You don't need to reply to this post, giving me reasons why it isn't the same thing at all, and why shouting down the boo boys isn't as easy as all that. Just think about it. And then, instead of just pissing and moaning about how terrible the atmosphere has become, get off your arses and do something about it.

 

[ibbz]

White male privilege is a thing of the past? Are you fucking kidding me? Let me just get this straight.... Racism and sexism are gone? Is that right? Fucking hell why didn't anyone tell us?! That's awesome.

And yeah... lower paid entry level jobs tend to be filled with more ethic groups... I'm not sure how that helps your point.
And just read your last sentence... the Africans and Asians have been given their jobs despite their incompetence due to quotas.... I thought racism was dead?

Also while we're on it quotas are needed because we live in a racially broken system.

Mate, you have some serious issues, and I'm Asian, and my Missus is African, and yes, I stick by my last comment, and if you think it's a racist comment, ME NO CARE.