Opinion of AVB in hindsight?

[Shea]

I agree that AVB has probably not presented the whole truth and nothing but the truth. But I'd be surprised if he wasn't led to believe that targets like these were attainable when he met with Levy and was probably also told that we ought to be challenging for the top 4.

As an optimistic ginger gruff, who helped us play some of the most boring football ever, I still honestly think there was a little helping hand when he said things like he wanted to bring "titles to Tottenham" from DL in some "5 year project".

Agree with Pochettino comments about finding suitable players in the youth team - really great asset to have.

Yea - I think there are two sides to every argument and I think the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle

I do think Levy probably led him to believe some of his targets first season were realistic and I think he got the arse hole about not getting them, probably should have been more realistic about alternatives though as I think he ended up just accepting whatever when he didn't get his first choices

I think he was backed in the second year though - maybe not with everyone he wanted but I think the likes of Soldado and Paulinho were his choices and the fact they were such expensive flops dug quite the hole for him with Levy, so as soon as things went tits up on the pitch the relationship become untenable

JJ the famous ITK labelled AVB a fraud - now as with any ITK it''s to be taken with a pinch of salt and would only be opinion but I suspect it reflects the feeling around the club by the time he was at the end of his tenure and I think I agree with the notion. Sells himself well, talks a good game but isn't cut out for the EPL or the highest levels of management unless he's able to manage a big bully powerhouse club competing against weaker opposition

 

[ItsBoris]

Definitely glad that he and his croaky voice are no longer here.

 

[ShaunL84]

AVB made me believe

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Bale would win games completely on his OWN. .

So Bale took the ball off the keeper, ran round ten players then scored. Then Bale defended against ten men single handed while his 10 team mates sat around doing a bong.

Not unlucky, he was a complete plonker for demanding players with transfer fees and wages which he would/should have known were never affordable.

Only manager who could make a side with Bale in look totally boring.

The only manager who made Bale look like 85m quids worth.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

So Bale took the ball off the keeper, ran round ten players then scored. Then Bale defended against ten men single handed while his 10 team mates sat around doing a bong.



The only manager who made Bale look like 85m quids worth.

OK, let's praise Carroll for his amazing assist for Bale's goal against West Ham.

Stop being ridiculous BC.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't think our creativity is any better under Pochettino than it was under AVB and I think defensively we are worse.

OK, let's praise Carroll for his amazing assist for Bale's goal against West Ham.

Stop being ridiculous BC.

You started it.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

I don't think our creativity is any better under Pochettino than it was under AVB and I think defensively we are worse.



You started it.

Well actually, I didn't.

Do you think our creativity was better under Redknapp than under AVB?

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

I miss his beard and Rod Stewart Karaoke voice.

 

[chinaman]

Does AVB sound better than pork?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Well actually, I didn't.

Do you think our creativity was better under Redknapp than under AVB?

I think our creativity was better with Modric, VDV, Bale and Adebayor with his head right than it was without all of those players.

 

[yankspurs]

Well actually, I didn't.

Do you think our creativity was better under Redknapp than under AVB?

Of course we were more creative under 'Arry. We had Modric, Bale, VDV and A motivated Ade. AVB only had Bale. He had a significantly worse team than Redknapp yet gave us our highest points total ever. That is all fact.

 

[Spursidol]

So Bale took the ball off the keeper, ran round ten players then scored. Then Bale defended against ten men single handed while his 10 team mates sat around doing a bong.



The only manager who made Bale look like 85m quids worth.

Bale looked incredible scoring a hatrrick in Milan against allegedly the world's best right back (remember 'Taxi for Maicon') making his first statement of being a potential world star - under HR where he went from plaing LB to LW and expimenting playing him in a more free role. Any manager taking on a 21/22 year old after that could expect to build on those type of performances, and AVB did by continuing to play him in a free role - doing what many managers might do. AVB just in the right place at the right time to claim some part of the Bale story

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

AVB has won the league with Saint Petersburg. Wondered what our opinion of him is, now the dust has settled.

I thought he was a good manager that was unlucky not to get the players he wanted and then suffer the consequences when it all went tits up.

I think I could win the league there with the money he's had.

 

[michaelden]

No Celtic aren't on the same level as Porto - but then I never claimed they were, did I? I simply referenced them to illustrate how your example of Porto being in the CL year in year out is not proof that they are one of the top times i.e. Celtic are not one of Europe's elite teams despite being in the CL every year and therefore that in itself is not proof of being so

The year they won it was a freak, Jose was a great manager and he (with no small amount of luck) masterminded a lower level team winning the tournament. Wigan won the FA cup a few years ago but that doesn't make them one of England's elite teams

As I said much of their high rankings comes from their performance in the Europa in recent years - but top teams shouldn't be competing in that. Barca, Real, Bayern etc would never be in it and if they were they'd likely walk it too

I understand them being highly ranked - they're a good performing team. Largely because of the players they wisely attract from South America and build strong teams. They don't however pay big money to bring in top managers, they promote from within and generally have managers like AVB and Jose before him who would try to impress to use them as a stepping stone to get a move to a bigger club (would you not agree?)

AVB had success with them, but the people i in charge of recruitment had built him a very strong team that was realitively easy to manage to success (much like Ramos at Sevilla)

They're not one of the bigger/top European clubs though and they don't have the same sorts of pressures an elite club come with. The statement he's not capable of performing at one of the elite clubs in Europe is valid because after his time at Porto he got a gig at Chelsea (where he didn't have the strongest team by a distance in the league) and he failed spectacularly and was also sacked from Spurs

He's won the league again at Zenit - but with that team compared to their rivals I'd suggest he'd be expected to do so and many other managers could do so.

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2015/clubs/club=50064/history/index.html

and I stand by what I said, they are a top team as there aren't 10 better in the CL, especially if you go back ten years when the likes of PSG & Man City didn't add competition... still their record is better than those 2 still.

You say they aren't a top team, go ask a Spanish, or Italian. Even a German or Dutch would say they are. Why are you trying so hard to undervalue them just to say AvB can't manage a top team?

 

[michaelden]

Bale looked incredible scoring a hatrrick in Milan against allegedly the world's best right back (remember 'Taxi for Maicon') making his first statement of being a potential world star - under HR where he went from plaing LB to LW and expimenting playing him in a more free role. Any manager taking on a 21/22 year old after that could expect to build on those type of performances, and AVB did by continuing to play him in a free role - doing what many managers might do. AVB just in the right place at the right time to claim some part of the Bale story

And yet, had BAE not gone to ANC or been injured would Harry have sold Bale as he'd wanted?

 

[Spursidol]

And yet, had BAE not gone to ANC or been injured would Harry have sold Bale as he'd wanted?

The question I answered was about AVB.

I would have hoped Levy would not have allowed HR to sell Bale but who knows

 

[RButch]

I have mixed feelings in regards to AVB. When he first came, so did I . He was exactly what I though we needed, it turns out he wasn't able to adapt his style to a fast paced league.

All in all, he is a good manager. Great at possession based football in slower leagues, horrible when implementing his tactics in the quicker.

 

[Shea]

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2015/clubs/club=50064/history/index.html

and I stand by what I said, they are a top team as there aren't 10 better in the CL, especially if you go back ten years when the likes of PSG & Man City didn't add competition... still their record is better than those 2 still.

You say they aren't a top team, go ask a Spanish, or Italian. Even a German or Dutch would say they are. Why are you trying so hard to undervalue them just to say AvB can't manage a top team?

I'm not trying hard to undervalue them - I've never thought of them as a TOP level European team, always as a second tier team and it surprises me that you consider them part of the elite

As I said they're a team from a weaker European league and they're a team that frequently end up in the Europa rather than the latter stages of the CL

I don't argue against them being a successful club - but I think that's somewhat different from being a top one (as there are more variables that need to be taken in to account and different pressures and expectations involved)

When they won the CL under Jose it was considered to be a major shock wasn't it? If they were one of the TOP teams it wouldn't have been a shock as TOP teams are expected to compete for the top honours every year

Like I said they have a non competitive league aside from 2 other teams and in recent years the men behind the scenes have enabled them to put together some very strong teams by manipulating the South American markets as they are allowed the third party ownership and the climate is an easy adaptation for such players

But are they not always seen as a stepping stone club for these players to eventually make a move to a bigger European team? if they were one of the TOP clubs why would they be seen as a stepping stone?

In the context of managering a top club (which is most important for the debate re. AVB) I think there's a big difference between managing a club like Porto and having to manage a TOP tier European club. I think there are vastly different levels of expectation and pressure and I think there's a reason managers who work at Porto look to move on and get bigger jobs (if Porto were a top club their job would be more like the pinnacle of a managers career rather than a starting point) and as I said before AVB was success with a strong Porto team that had been built for him but he was unable to step up and deal with the pressures at a club like Chelsea (validating the opinion that he's incapable of managing a top European club in my opinion)

He's done at Zenit what he did at Porto - won the league with a team that was by far the strongest in the division. Not to be sniffed at as it still needs to be won but not evidence that he's suddenly capable of succeeding at the top clubs in the top leagues - which I think was the point of the discussion and why I disagreed with your statement re. him previously managing Porto as proving he's capable

 

[michaelden]

I'm not trying hard to undervalue them - I've never thought of them as a TOP level European team, always as a second tier team and it surprises me that you consider them part of the elite

As I said they're a team from a weaker European league and they're a team that frequently end up in the Europa rather than the latter stages of the CL

I don't argue against them being a successful club - but I think that's somewhat different from being a top one (as there are more variables that need to be taken in to account and different pressures and expectations involved)

When they won the CL under Jose it was considered to be a major shock wasn't it? If they were one of the TOP teams it wouldn't have been a shock as TOP teams are expected to compete for the top honours every year

Like I said they have a non competitive league aside from 2 other teams and in recent years the men behind the scenes have enabled them to put together some very strong teams by manipulating the South American markets as they are allowed the third party ownership and the climate is an easy adaptation for such players

But are they not always seen as a stepping stone club for these players to eventually make a move to a bigger European team? if they were one of the TOP clubs why would they be seen as a stepping stone?

In the context of managering a top club (which is most important for the debate re. AVB) I think there's a big difference between managing a club like Porto and having to manage a TOP tier European club. I think there are vastly different levels of expectation and pressure and I think there's a reason managers who work at Porto look to move on and get bigger jobs (if Porto were a top club their job would be more like the pinnacle of a managers career rather than a starting point) and as I said before AVB was success with a strong Porto team that had been built for him but he was unable to step up and deal with the pressures at a club like Chelsea (validating the opinion that he's incapable of managing a top European club in my opinion)

He's done at Zenit what he did at Porto - won the league with a team that was by far the strongest in the division. Not to be sniffed at as it still needs to be won but not evidence that he's suddenly capable of succeeding at the top clubs in the top leagues - which I think was the point of the discussion and why I disagreed with your statement re. him previously managing Porto as proving he's capable

By this reasoning it's a shock that Juve are in the CL finals. I mean, Serie A is very weak at the moment and has been for a while.

Think of all the managers who've managed amazing squads but never won anything. Yes Zenit are stronger & expected to win, so achieving that is a job well done. If you look at his time at Chelsea, it was player power that undermined him. JT, Lampard, Drogba etc... It is so obvious as they suddenly started winning with the same squad when Di Matteo took over. He didn't even change the fucking tactics. Chelsea players just played better cos the man they liked was in charge. Had AvB had free reign I think a lot of those old guard would've been sold and Oscar etc been bought earlier.

 

[Shadydan]

By this reasoning it's a shock that Juve are in the CL finals. I mean, Serie A is very weak at the moment and has been for a while.

Think of all the managers who've managed amazing squads but never won anything. Yes Zenit are stronger & expected to win, so achieving that is a job well done. If you look at his time at Chelsea, it was player power that undermined him. JT, Lampard, Drogba etc... It is so obvious as they suddenly started winning with the same squad when Di Matteo took over. He didn't even change the fucking tactics. Chelsea players just played better cos the man they liked was in charge. Had AvB had free reign I think a lot of those old guard would've been sold and Oscar etc been bought earlier.

Porto and Juventus are in completely different stratospheres when it comes to European pedigree and prestige to be fair, Juve are far bigger and despite them falling off for a couple of years they remain amongst the top tier of European football/