PLAYER WATCH: Benjamin Stambouli

[Blackcanary]

I think you all failed to see the satire in my post.

Sorry dude - it's always safer to assume 'imbecile' rather than 'satirist' on the internet.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Yes but a) is Levy trigger happy or was he re AVB? b) the last manager whom Levy fired was Redknapp that we can be sure of and c) this was the defence against Jol being fired which was often discarded.

It's not the failure to get into the top four which has seen off the last three managers really. Ramos was just disastrous and showed no signs of improving; Redknapp was most likely non football related in terms of what happened on the pitch and was a decision you supported and AVB left by mutual consent.

Let's say though that AVB was fired for the sake of argument. It wasn’t the simple failure to get into the top four. If it were, he would have gone in the summer of 2013. It was the worrying trend of losing heavily to our prospective rivals with the team collapsing after going a goal or two down. Lloris even said as much. That coupled with the incredibly turgid and uninspiring football we played (not to mention the banishing of our best striker for no good reason.)

You make fair points. I agree that by and large Levy hasn't been as trigger happy as some make out.

As far as Ramos goes, my stance has pretty much always been that I understand why a chairman would sack him, I just would have given him more time myself.

Jol wasn't 4th/5th or 6th when he was sacked and he'd had 3 and a half years.

Redknapp I said that I could understand why he wouldn't be sacked but was very happy to see him go for all the reasons I've stated numerous times. Again he'd had 3 and a half years, so not exactly trigger happy firing IMO, and as you say, was almost certainly in part due to non footballing reasons. Failing to get CL football with a team that contained Modric, VDV, Bale and Asdebayor shouldn't be dismissed either.


AVB is the one that stands out for me and the sacking I had in mind. As you say, the official line is "by mutual agreement". I'm pretty sure, however, if Levy had made it clear he still wanted him there and backed him, he'd have stayed, but that is just my opinion.

The last line or two of your post I think is just twaddle. Lloris said it was as if we had given up (or had no answers) in the Liverpool game. Hardly a surprising comment after going down to ten men and getting thumped.

Adebayor has pissed off every single manager he's played under. AVB was just the latest to not tolerate his bullshit. And turgid football is a) subjective and b) hardly surprising if you swap VDV for Dempsey and Bale for Townsend and Modric for Dembele.

 

[sloth]

or in short;

manager asks for a player and levy finds him a cheaper version.

What makes you think that?

 

[THFCSPURS19]

"Good football" is a very subjective term. If you would like to develop this theme I'm happy to take it over to another thread, we've probably got a bit side tracked in this one.

In your opinion, who's style of football was more "good", AVB's or Redknapp's?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

In your opinion, who's style of football was more "good", AVB's or Redknapp's?

Like I said, good is subjective. I preferred the football we were trying to play under AVB for 90% of the time than I did to the messy disorganised lottery stuff we played under Redknapp 90% of the time.

There were about 5 or 6 games under Redknapp that I enjoyed more than any I watched under AVB.

There's no "good" or right or wrong per se. I know what I prefer. I like to see some cohesion, some coached ethos, some discipline, some identity.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Like I said, good is subjective. I preferred the football we were trying to play under AVB for 90% of the time than I did to the messy disorganised lottery stuff we played under Redknapp 90% of the time.

There were about 5 or 6 games under Redknapp that I enjoyed more than any I watched under AVB.

There's no "good" or right or wrong per se. I know what I prefer. I like to see some cohesion, some coached ethos, some discipline, some identity.

I think we all preferred what AVB was trying to do but the key word is "trying". He spectacularly failed in delivering anything you could call "good football" for the majority of the time.

 

[Coyboy]

You make fair points. I agree that by and large Levy hasn't been as trigger happy as some make out.

As far as Ramos goes, my stance has pretty much always been that I understand why a chairman would sack him, I just would have given him more time myself.

Jol wasn't 4th/5th or 6th when he was sacked and he'd had 3 and a half years.

Redknapp I said that I could understand why he wouldn't be sacked but was very happy to see him go for all the reasons I've stated numerous times. Again he'd had 3 and a half years, so not exactly trigger happy firing IMO, and as you say, was almost certainly in part due to non footballing reasons. Failing to get CL football with a team that contained Modric, VDV, Bale and Asdebayor shouldn't be dismissed either.


AVB is the one that stands out for me and the sacking I had in mind. As you say, the official line is "by mutual agreement". I'm pretty sure, however, if Levy had made it clear he still wanted him there and backed him, he'd have stayed, but that is just my opinion.

The last line or two of your post I think is just twaddle. Lloris said it was as if we had given up (or had no answers) in the Liverpool game. Hardly a surprising comment after going down to ten men and getting thumped.

Adebayor has pissed off every single manager he's played under. AVB was just the latest to not tolerate his bullshit. And turgid football is a) subjective and b) hardly surprising if you swap VDV for Dempsey and Bale for Townsend and Modric for Dembele.

Only worth commenting on this.

I just think there was a breakdown somewhere and it wasn’t a case of “sacked in the morning” but “enough is enough this isn’t working out” and both agreed.

It may not have been surprising but it’s not good enough and it’s the manager’s responsibility that players don’t throw the towel in.

You cite the class of Adebayor on the one hand and then excuse dropping him from the squad on the other. The Adebayor point is completely false. He didn’t piss off Redknapp, Sherwood, Pochettino (yet of course) Hughes, Mourinho (to my knowledge) or Wenger particularly- to the extent he did, he still gave Arsenal three years or so of excellent service. So then you’re left with Mancini who does well to fall out with a lot of his players.

Yes we didn’t replace world class with world class but that doesn’t excuse the sheer drop in the quality of football. Pochettino, Laudrup, Martinez and even recently Monk have got their teams playing good football without players of Modric or Bale’s quality.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I think we all preferred what AVB was trying to do but the key word is "trying". He spectacularly failed in delivering anything you could call "good football" for the majority of the time.

But again, good is subjective. I like watching a team try to dominate the football, to work coherently off the ball. We didn't always do it well under him, but I would still prefer to see a team trying to go through that process than look like a bunch of individuals doing their own thing in an "exciting for the neutral" lottery system.

And that is because I personally can buy into that philosophy as a long term proposition for success much more readily than the latter. And that thought is more comforting to me. More subjectively "good" to me.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Only worth commenting on this.

I just think there was a breakdown somewhere and it wasn’t a case of “sacked in the morning” but “enough is enough this isn’t working out” and both agreed.

It may not have been surprising but it’s not good enough and it’s the manager’s responsibility that players don’t throw the towel in.

You cite the class of Adebayor with on the one hand and then excuse dropping him from the squad on the other. The Adebayor point is completely false. He didn’t piss off Redknapp, Sherwood, Pochettino (yet of course) Hughes, Mourinho (to my knowledge) or Wenger particularly- to the extent he did, he still gave Arsenal three years or so of excellent service. So then you’re left with Mancini who does well to fall out with a lot of his players.

Yes we didn’t replace world class with world class but that doesn’t excuse the sheer drop in the quality of football. Pochettino, Laudrup, Martinez and even recently Monk have got their teams playing good football without players of Modric or Bale’s quality.

It's not just Mancini. I and others have posted articles with quotes from his other managers in France (Metz and Monaco) too. He also caused problems for Wenger when he couldn't get a move to another club (Milan I think but I may be wrong) and at one point there were also stories in the media about Redknapp saying he wouldn't play for him again after a falling out.

I appreciate that he is an incredibly talented footballer, have never said otherwise, and most managers cannot afford the luxury of alienating players with talent, AVB obviously proving no exception.

But I have always believed that it is a dangerous game for chairman to let players undermine the authority of managers. And Adebayor does have a history of testing this.

Here you go. First hit I found. He is, for whatever reason, frequently a problem for managers in one way or another. Mourinho also didn't want him longer than his fe months loan. Despite not having many striking options at the time. Pretty sure it wasn't for purely footballing reasons.

http://tottenham-spur.blogspot.fr/2012/04/redknapp-in-row-at-tottenham.html

 

[jezz]

Shouldn't we be giving Stambouli a few games before we decide he's not that good.
We buy players now and decide there not good enough before they have even played.
We're fcuking awful fan's, sometimes I can't believe what I read.

 

[Coyboy]

It's not just Mancini. I and others have posted articles with quotes from his other managers in France (Metz and Monaco) too. He also caused problems for Wenger when he couldn't get a move to another club (Milan I think but I may be wrong) and at one point there were also stories in the media about Redknapp saying he wouldn't play for him again after a falling out.

I appreciate that he is an incredibly talented footballer, have never said otherwise, and most managers cannot afford the luxury of alienating players with talent, AVB obviously proving no exception.

But I have always believed that it is a dangerous game for chairman to let players undermine the authority of managers. And Adebayor does have a history of testing this.

Here you go. First hit I found. He is, for whatever reason, frequently a problem for managers in one way or another. Mourinho also didn't want him longer than his fe months loan. Despite not having many striking options at the time. Pretty sure it wasn't for purely footballing reasons.

http://tottenham-spur.blogspot.fr/2012/04/redknapp-in-row-at-tottenham.html

Rumours, nothing more and nothing you post or google will justify your ridiculous suggestion that he has pissed off every manager he has played for. I'm pretty sure Ade did play again for that club, so either Redknapp was not true to his word or 'tottenham-spur blog' is talking bollocks. The latter me thinks.

If you mean he wasn't top of the class everyday and an infallible goodie two shoes, then maybe not but which player or employee in any organisation is. He's a talent as you say, and you have to manage and get the best out of that talent. That's where AVB failed miserably.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Rumours, nothing more and nothing you post or google will justify your ridiculous suggestion that he has pissed off every manager he has played for. I'm pretty sure Ade did play again for that club, so either Redknapp was not true to his word or 'tottenham-spur blog' is talking bollocks. The latter me thinks.

If you mean he wasn't top of the class everyday and an infallible goodie two shoes, then maybe not but which player or employee in any organisation is. He's a talent as you say, and you have to manage and get the best out of that talent. That's where AVB failed miserably.

How about a player has an obligation too. To his employer who is paying him more than a prime minister and to himself ?

Adebayor was given a fair chance in AVB's first season. I guess AVB got to the point where he decided the off field pain in the arse wasn't balancing out the on field effort. My best guess. I agree it was a shame, but only someone being very disingenuous would ignore Adebayor's previous or try to pretend he was just a run of the mill pain in the arse.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...ellous-player-in-there-somewhere-8923872.html

 

[Coyboy]

How about a player has an obligation too. To his employer who is paying him more than a prime minister and to himself ?

Adebayor was given a fair chance in AVB's first season. I guess AVB got to the point where he decided the off field pain in the arse wasn't balancing out the on field effort. My best guess. I agree it was a shame, but only someone being very disingenuous would ignore Adebayor's previous or try to pretend he was just a run of the mill pain in the arse.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...ellous-player-in-there-somewhere-8923872.html

Yes he does, but it's not his fault if he doesn't get played so I'm not sure what you point is. And no he didn't do too well in AVB's first season but that wasn't through lack of trying and his success thereafter and before show that he was worth persisting with. AVB couldn't do what other managers have done and get him to play to his potential. All you can do is guess why he wasn't played but frankly it was a precious and ultimately disastrous decision to just discard him.

That article adds very little and you have already destroyed your own credibility with the "pissed off every manager" fabrication.

When all is said and done, if AVB were happy to sideline our best striker then he should have been good enough to manage and get the best out of our squad. He wasn't and frankly leaving our team with Soldado and Defoe as the only strikers in a team vying for the top 4 was amateurish and as proven, self-defeating.

 

[sloth]

@Blake Griffin does make a fair point. We can't expect a coach to achieve top 4 if we are buying him players that are 2nd/3rd or 4th on the acquisition list. Or more to the point, we shouldn't be sacking them when they are still hovering around 4th/5th/6th with those players.

But I stand by my point, that fans show equal intolerance of this and are no better than the trigger happy chairman.

We can't expect a coach to deliver top four, full-stop. There are five clubs who are better funded than us in the PL, and the gap between their income and our's is growing rather than shrinking. The result of that funding is that each of those clubs is managed by a manager with a world-class reputation, and boasts teams populated with players with world-class reputations (with the possible exception of Liverpool).

Our task therefore is to try and boost our income in a way that will be reliable even if we don't get top four by building a stadium, but at the same time try and build a team capable of challenging for the top four and/or the EL.

Part of that means getting the right coach in charge, someone who buys into the policy of bringing youth through from our academy, and also snapping up the best under 21 talent we can get our hands on, someone who can make the most of our world-class training facilities - for me, going by the reports from @JJetset and others, the most disappointing aspect of AVB's failed appointment was that he didn't seem to do this, by all accounts seeing the youth, under Sherwood's guidance, in terms of his personal power struggle and therefore spending little to no time with overseeing the youth coaching. I'm hopeful that in Pochettino we have a coach who does buy into this philosophy.

Part of that also means making compromises on our first team acquisitions as we try and find the money to reduce the debt we'll require in order to get the stadium built. On this I'm also hopeful Poch has bought into the philosophy, and again, unlike with AVB, the noises from JJ and others is that he does, that it is not the Chairman imposing transfer decisions on Poch, but a committee of which Poch is part, coming to a consensus on who we get. I believe that AVB reportedly threw is toys out of the pram if he didn't get his first choice guys is also one of the reason we parted ways.

Finally, part of that is trying to find a young coach, with huge potential, to develop players on an individual level and also to knit a team capable of producing football better than you might expect if you simply summed the quality of its parts, and also someone up for building a dynasty with us, and who is not going to jump ship if, after success, a richer club tries to poach him. There are no guarantees, but I really hope we've achieved that with Poch.

 

[Lufti]

French players, or players who've had a footballing upbringing in France, tend to suit this league as theirs is one with similar demands physically, but greater demands technically. The result is players with the athleticism to cope in the premier league but the skill to make the locals look like cavemen. If you were to do an all time French Premier League XI it would probably be far better than the sides from any other nationality, including English. In fact:

Lloris
Sagna Desailly Koscielny Evra
Vieira Petite
Pires Cantona Ginola
Henry
​

That's without even accounting got all the top class African footballers who received their footballing education in France.

My point? Basically that I'm far more confident in a French player who I've never heard of coming in and being what we need than a player from any other league.

Are you forgetting all the French players who've come here and been terrible? Just a take a look at Newcastle..

Sorry @Spursking

 

[easley91]

I like his personality after watching the football golf video. Very likeable and seems like he'll keep the spirits up ala Holtby and Sandro. Fazio seems a cool guy too. Looking forward to hopefully seeing both play tomorrow.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Are you forgetting all the French players who've come here and been terrible? Just a take a look at Newcastle..

Sorry @Spursking

There's been a fair few misses, but I'd say the proportion of successes from France has been greater than any other league.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

The physicality of the French league isn't quite up to the physicality of the EPL but footballers are generally technically much better schooled. Technique has traditionally always been valued higher in France than physicality, and French academy's taught the tactical and technical side of the game much better than English ones. Looking after the ball and playing on the ground and how to press properly are far more endemic in French coaching.

And Nasri should be where Ginola is in your team, and Blanc where Koschelny is, Just saying.

Not sure if serious

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Not sure if serious

He is unfortunately. I refrained from responding to his anti Ginola chat the other day, but he considers Ginola to be a show pony who was all style no substance. Thankfully, BC is alone in this.

 

[sloth]

We can't expect a coach to deliver top four, full-stop. There are five clubs who are better funded than us in the PL, and the gap between their income and our's is growing rather than shrinking. The result of that funding is that each of those clubs is managed by a manager with a world-class reputation, and boasts teams populated with players with world-class reputations (with the possible exception of Liverpool).

Our task therefore is to try and boost our income in a way that will be reliable even if we don't get top four by building a stadium, but at the same time try and build a team capable of challenging for the top four and/or the EL.

Part of that means getting the right coach in charge, someone who buys into the policy of bringing youth through from our academy, and also snapping up the best under 21 talent we can get our hands on, someone who can make the most of our world-class training facilities - for me, going by the reports from @JJetset and others, the most disappointing aspect of AVB's failed appointment was that he didn't seem to do this, by all accounts seeing the youth, under Sherwood's guidance, in terms of his personal power struggle and therefore spending little to no time with overseeing the youth coaching. I'm hopeful that in Pochettino we have a coach who does buy into this philosophy.

Part of that also means making compromises on our first team acquisitions as we try and find the money to reduce the debt we'll require in order to get the stadium built. On this I'm also hopeful Poch has bought into the philosophy, and again, unlike with AVB, the noises from JJ and others is that he does, that it is not the Chairman imposing transfer decisions on Poch, but a committee of which Poch is part, coming to a consensus on who we get. I believe that AVB reportedly threw is toys out of the pram if he didn't get his first choice guys is also one of the reason we parted ways.

Finally, part of that is trying to find a young coach, with huge potential, to develop players on an individual level and also to knit a team capable of producing football better than you might expect if you simply summed the quality of its parts, and also someone up for building a dynasty with us, and who is not going to jump ship if, after success, a richer club tries to poach him. There are no guarantees, but I really hope we've achieved that with Poch.

In support of this:


""It is true that we were a little bit unlucky in the key moments in the game," he said.

"I think that we watched it more than 20 times and every single detail has been analysed. We are a team that needs to learn and improve. We are under a new philosophy but I'm happy with the way we are.

"Because we had time, we had two weeks to prepare for Sunderland and a lot of players were away. We had time to analyse it.

"We need to improve in a lot of things but we need to improve our mental preparation. This is an important way to work in this club.

"We need to create this winning mentality and believe in our skill and our power. This is the one thing we need to improve."

Liverpool led from the early stages as Raheem Sterling put them ahead inside the opening 10 minutes, with Pochettino wanting a brighter start from his players - starting at Sunderland on Saturday.

"We made individual charts for different groups (of players) but we analysed it all," he added.

"The most important thing was that we analysed the first seven minutes because that was the key.

"We need to have a chat, we need to watch clips about different situations and work hard. We need to improve each other.

"It is done all together because it is difficult to separate. It's holistic - physical and mental (strength) all together."

Despite believing Tottenham's performance merited a better result against last season's runners-up, Pochettino did reveal he showed his unhappiness at the players following the defeat.

He said: "After the game I was angry but it's football, you need to have luck because we were unlucky and conceded a goal and after we had the possibility to score but it wasn't our day.

"The team played well and tried but in the second half the penalty made it 2-0 and Liverpool have a lot of good attacking players who are fast and it was difficult.

"Yes, that was the angriest I have been here but the players were not surprised because in two months sometimes you are angry for different things.""