Player Watch Player Watch: Giovani Lo Celso

[mil1lion]

Can someone explain to me the difference between a loan with an obligation to buy and a sale?

Loan with obligation is like

 

[DodgyLasagne]

Loan with obligation is like

Loan with option is like shoplifting.

Except you then can decide to pay for it if it’s good, or return it if it sucks.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Didn't Ndombele star in the Champions League for Lyon , not always a good indicator of how a player will perform in the Premier League.
Not all European clubs are broke, England is in Europe last time I looked at a map , plenty of English clubs with money unfortunately none of them want Lo Celso or Ndombele

The point is just because players don't perform in the premier league it doesn't make them 'average'. Forlan and Veron ultimately failed in the prem but they were some of the most talented players of their generation. Now i'm not saying Lo Celso (or Ndombele) will go on to be that but writing their talent off because they haven't made it with us is pretty childish when it comes down to it.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

The point is just because players don't perform in the premier league it doesn't make them 'average'. Forlan and Veron ultimately failed in the prem but they were some of the most talented players of their generation. Now i'm not saying Lo Celso (or Ndombele) will go on to be that but writing their talent off because they haven't made it with us is pretty childish when it comes down to it.

Only going on what I have seen of Lo Celso in the PL , he has not impressed and if he was top class wouldn't he still be with PSG.

Wonder how fans would rate Lo Celso compared to the much maligned Paulhino

Lo Celso with Spurs , 55 appearances , 1 goal, 3 assists. With Argentina 39 appearances , 2 goals.

Paulhino with Spurs , 45 appearances , 6 goals, 3 assists. With Brazil 56 appearances , 13 goals .

Both described as attacking midfielders by transfermarket.

 

[WorthATry]

Gio Lo Celso, getting closer to Villarreal. Tottenham put aside its idea that there is an obligation to buy: a loan is discussed until June with two variables to be defined. The club ?? may have the option to acquire it or not (this would allow others to bid in 2023).

 

[mckenz]

The point is just because players don't perform in the premier league it doesn't make them 'average'. Forlan and Veron ultimately failed in the prem but they were some of the most talented players of their generation. Now i'm not saying Lo Celso (or Ndombele) will go on to be that but writing their talent off because they haven't made it with us is pretty childish when it comes down to it.

Kanute

 

[DiVaio]

Clearly, that’s why he has queues of clubs lined up to pay that for him.

Or because other clubs know that we want to sell him/he wants to leave/we already signed other players and don’t have space to register Gio so they would rather wait few weeks for much better deal because Spurs have no negotiating power

 

[sidford]

Himself, ndombele, winks and Reggie all training away from main squad.

Tottenham send quartet to train away from first-team as club await late bids

Unwanted Tottenham stars Tanguy Ndombele, Giovani Lo Celso, Sergio Reguilon and Harry Winks have been banished from the first-team and are training individually, as the club continues to look for buyers before the end of the transfer window.

www.standard.co.uk

Certainly seems like no way back for any of them

 

[arthurgrimsdell]

Loan with obligation is like

You seem to be saying that a loan with an obligation to buy won't involve a loan fee. That seems unlikely. I'm not familiar with Klarna, but it appears to be interest free credit on a purchase made, rather than a loan with an obligation to buy.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Himself, ndombele, winks and Reggie all training away from main squad.

Tottenham send quartet to train away from first-team as club await late bids

Unwanted Tottenham stars Tanguy Ndombele, Giovani Lo Celso, Sergio Reguilon and Harry Winks have been banished from the first-team and are training individually, as the club continues to look for buyers before the end of the transfer window.

www.standard.co.uk

Certainly seems like no way back for any of them

It does somewhat, doesn't it. A bit rough really, not very friendly

 

[arthurgrimsdell]

Loan with obligation

Sale is a straight sale which can be put through the books straight away. Loan with obligation is either a delayed sale, or could be dependent on factors to make it a sale.
Theres no guarantee that the obligation because active in some cases

thats my take on it anyway

You appear to be describing a loan with a potential obligation if certain criteria are met, rather than a loan with a straight obligation to buy. There are two reasons I raised this. The first is that a loan with a straight obligation to buy appears to me to be of no advantage to any of the parties over a purchase, since payments tend to be staged on most purchases anyway, so there is no effect on cashflow. The purchase price would reflect the loan fee. The second is that some posters have emphasised that they only want a loan with a straight obligation to complete the deal for the likes of Gio Lo Celso, and probably others, who they don't want at the club under any circumstances, and I can't see any way that can be guaranteed using the loan mechanism.

 

[Maxtremist]

You appear to be describing a loan with a potential obligation if certain criteria are met, rather than a loan with a straight obligation to buy. There are two reasons I raised this. The first is that a loan with a straight obligation to buy appears to me to be of no advantage to any of the parties over a purchase, since payments tend to be staged on most purchases anyway, so there is no effect on cashflow. The purchase price would reflect the loan fee. The second is that some posters have emphasised that they only want a loan with a straight obligation to complete the deal for the likes of Gio Lo Celso, and probably others, who they don't want at the club under any circumstances, and I can't see any way that can be guaranteed using the loan mechanism.

Well Loan with Obligation just basically means you can start paying the fee side of things later, essentially. There may be a loan fee but not always. Also depending on how you structure your deals you might not even be paying full wages. So essentially just gives you a little more time to get your ducks in a row.

I'm so not a finance guy but I'd imagine it's also things like, which financial year do you want the sale to be registered in etc... all of that.

 

[mr ashley]

Well Loan with Obligation just basically means you can start paying the fee side of things later, essentially. There may be a loan fee but not always. Also depending on how you structure your deals you might not even be paying full wages. So essentially just gives you a little more time to get your ducks in a row.

I'm so not a finance guy but I'd imagine it's also things like, which financial year do you want the sale to be registered in etc... all of that.

I think it’s more about the accounts and which financial year they are reported in. Basically a FFP workaround

 

[spursfan77]

Maybe we’d be better off just loaning him with no option. Come January his stock could be a lot higher if Argentina do well at the WC (I have them as one of the favourites).

This is where the £150m may actually come into consideration in a way we didn’t think. We can afford to let these players away for a year and just take a loan fee and hope they play well enough to be picked up next summer.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

Loan him till January - and sell him after a couple of decent performances for Argentina at the WC. He always seems to play pretty well for the national team

 

[Amo]

Lol at Villareal playing hardball not only on refusing mandatory buy clauses but also insisting on having a cheap buy option that they can chose to activate (or not activate) after another excellent season and good performance at the World Cup.

The fact we may see it as in our interest to agree goes to show how badly we fucked that transfer window up. We take on all of the risk that he flops this season and none of the reward in case he has the best form of his career.

 

[kent brockman]

Lol at Villareal playing hardball not only on refusing mandatory buy clauses but also insisting on having a cheap buy option that they can chose to activate (or not activate) after another excellent season and good performance at the World Cup.

The fact we may see it as in our interest to agree goes to show how badly we fucked that transfer window up. We take on all of the risk that he flops this season and none of the reward in case he has the best form of his career.

They seem to want GLC in almost as much as Spurs want him out. Not sure where they would go though if we would only agree to a loan deal without a cheap buy option. I reckon a good WC could potentially increase his value quite a bit.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

If Lo Celso has a great world cup and his transfer value rises we would probably have to find another buyer, one look at Villareal's transfer transactions show that any rise in value would probably put Lo Celso out of their price range.

 

[Aphex]

I guess the hope is he plays well and his value increases, but with an obligation, it would no doubt be a really low fee. So if the option is agree an optional or mandatory really low fee with them, or just do it as a pure loan and hope his form means we get higher bids next summer, we are going for the latter.

 

[Spursberg]

Himself, ndombele, winks and Reggie all training away from main squad.

Tottenham send quartet to train away from first-team as club await late bids

Unwanted Tottenham stars Tanguy Ndombele, Giovani Lo Celso, Sergio Reguilon and Harry Winks have been banished from the first-team and are training individually, as the club continues to look for buyers before the end of the transfer window.

www.standard.co.uk

Certainly seems like no way back for any of them

How does this work really? Is this something the players also want as well, waiting for their transfer? If not, i do not see a different in players that wants to go away refusing to train, and having the Manager banishing them away to train alone, equally bad taste when it is professional players and contracts involved? it is not like they are that crap that the level on training will go down? think and hope it is because they want to reduce chance of injury and just a precaution for imminent transfers