Player Watch : Vincent Janssen

[UpTownSpur]

So a £17 million striker failing to score a single outfield goal in any format (32 games) for us does not represent abject failure and warrant a place with the likes of Balaban, Alves, Soldaldo etc as one of the worst high profile striking failures in the league then seriously what does? There was absolutely no issue taken with such comments directed at the likes of Rasiak ( or the likes of Paulinho or Gilberto in other areas) so why are other certain players such as him off bounds?

And I have been entirely consistent on this absolutely I would be saying he same whatever the shirt he is wearing. What I cannot understand is the level of ire making such comments illicit or why we should wait to have our opinions of a player validated by the club first before passing comments.

Do you really think if he started performing and scoring that such comments would continue? When the facts change so will opinions but he simply isn't doing anything to change that. If anything judging by their comments even the management are giving up on him which makes such continued commitment to him by some all the more surprising .

Excellent post. I think there are easy targets to criticize like Sissoko but with younger players it's easy to just say he needs time, etc. A simple post like "he'll come good" can get a 100 positive ratings while the lengthy post articulating why he won't necessarily will be down rated. It's a bit like the episode "nosedive" from Black Mirror here sometimes.

 

[Spurs' Pipe Dreams]

Excellent post. I think there are easy targets to criticize like Sissoko but with younger players it's easy to just say he needs time, etc. A simple post like "he'll come good" can get a 100 positive ratings while the lengthy post articulating why he won't necessarily will be down rated. It's a bit like the episode "nosedive" from Black Mirror here sometimes.

Would you agree that players perform better when playing consistently with their team mates and getting a run of games?

I will assume you do, being an intelligent and honest Spurs and football fan. Has Janssen had that chance, no. That's why writing him off without having that chance is premature.

That all being said, Pochettino sees him everyday in training and at points has deemed him not worthy of a bench place or even a substitute appearance but recently he has been coming on. Does that show in training he's proving he is worthy? In my eyes yes and more importantly in Pochettino's eyes.

You may well be right that he will be sold in the summer, atm we don't know, so to spout shit about him definitely being sold is just that shit.

Personally I hope he comes good, his goals for Holland and AZ show he's a good shot on him, can score with either foot and his head. You should be hoping he comes good too, why? Because if he does we've a good striker for £17m, which in todays money is chicken feed. You can have your opinion that you don't think he's good enough, that's fine but in all honesty he's not had enough minutes to make that decision and tbh if you can after watching him on TV (for such limited minutes), you should be putting your CV to every Premier league club and applying for scouting positions, I'm sure they'll snap you up.

 

[UpTownSpur]

Would you agree that players perform better when playing consistently with their team mates and getting a run of games?

I will assume you do, being an intelligent and honest Spurs and football fan. Has Janssen had that chance, no. That's why writing him off without having that chance is premature.

That all being said, Pochettino sees him everyday in training and at points has deemed him not worthy of a bench place or even a substitute appearance but recently he has been coming on. Does that show in training he's proving he is worthy? In my eyes yes and more importantly in Pochettino's eyes.

You may well be right that he will be sold in the summer, atm we don't know, so to spout shit about him definitely being sold is just that shit.

Personally I hope he comes good, his goals for Holland and AZ show he's a good shot on him, can score with either foot and his head. You should be hoping he comes good too, why? Because if he does we've a good striker for £17m, which in todays money is chicken feed. You can have your opinion that you don't think he's good enough, that's fine but in all honesty he's not had enough minutes to make that decision and tbh if you can after watching him on TV (for such limited minutes), you should be putting your CV to every Premier league club and applying for scouting positions, I'm sure they'll snap you up.

But to get games you have show enough potential in the games you do play. For example, Winks has, Ononmah hasn't. And Janssen hasn't shown enough in my opinion. If I could describe the problem as succinctly as possible: he's simply unable to create enough separation between himself and defenders to even get shots away, so the fact he has a good shot is irrelevant. It's like having a big dick but not knowing any chat up lines. I often see Son's shooting criticized, but those people fail to realise the hardest skill was actually getting in a position to make the shot in the first place. It's not the fact Janssen's missing chances that makes it likely his PL career will be short, but it's the fact he's not even getting them, despite playing in one of the most creative teams in the PL. I would be more optimistic if he was at least missing a few good chances every time he plays.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

So a £17 million striker failing to score a single outfield goal in any format (32 games).

I stopped there. He hasn't played 32 games. If you add up his minutes its not that many full games at all.

 

[Spurs' Pipe Dreams]

But to get games you have show enough potential in the games you do play. For example, Winks has, Ononmah hasn't. And Janssen hasn't shown enough in my opinion. If I could describe the problem as succinctly as possible: he's simply unable to create enough separation between himself and defenders to even get shots away, so the fact he has a good shot is irrelevant. It's like having a big dick but not knowing any chat up lines. I often see Son's shooting criticized, but those people fail to realise the hardest skill was actually getting in a position to make the shot in the first place. It's not the fact Janssen's missing chances that makes it likely his PL career will be short, but it's the fact he's not even getting them, despite playing in one of the most creative teams in the PL. I would be more optimistic if he was at least missing a few good chances every time he plays.

I agree, if you look at my earlier posts in this thread you'll see me saying the same thing. He looks to post up (in basketball terms) he actively looks for the defender and looks to hold up the ball far too much. This means he's not getting into space for the shot or running in behind defenders.

Now that is coachable (word?) runs and when to look for space and when to post up is something that can be taught. Harry does it well, but he has also had Dele/Son/Eriksen/Lamela making those runs past him to create those spaces. In the limited starts Janssen has had, it's been Onomah, Sissoko and maybe one of the former who weren't making those create space runs.

The reason I believe there's a player in there is one his first touch, it's not the greatest but his hold up play has been okay. He also hasn't been bullied when looking to post up, he's won pens or the battle and that for me is a good sign of a fighter and strength. Lastly it's been his awareness in bringing in other players, admittedly mostly lay offs after holding the ball up but also that one touch pass for the Son goal however many months back.

I may be wrong that there's a player in there, you may be right. I genuinely believe it's too early for us supporters to be writing him off though, because we've not seen enough of him (maybe because he's not good enough but also H's good form). H's injury came at the worst time for him in his development and confidence imo, we were playing badly and as a team weren't doing it.

I'd like to see him get a start ahead of H on Sunday (it won't happen as it's Millwall, Harry's "old" club) with the rest of the in form first teamers and see how he does.

I actually hope we don't sell in the summer, I think a Pochettino pre-season could/would make him or break him. His wages probably aren't too high and if it does break him he can go with my blessing in January. I would sign another striker though, more a wf/cf type but they're expensive but I think it's what we need personally.

 

[TheHood]

I stopped there. He hasn't played 32 games. If you add up his minutes its not that many full games at all.

He has played in 32 games and he has had 32 sperate opportunities to score an outfield goal. So you cannot try to discount or try diminish that by trying to qualify this by minutes, such a measurement is never used (and even if you did go by that basis it still a pretty dire record). He was signed as second striker, he was never going to be a first team starter and barring an injury to Kane he was never going see the same amount of minutes. And it is why the expectations would be less, I (and I suspect the club as well would have readily accepted 8-10 outfield league goals) in a campaign but we we are no where near that and highly unlikely to do that now. Given his current status it is difficult to see him even matching the likes of Postiga and Soldaldo first season outfield tally.

 

[Khilari]

But to get games you have show enough potential in the games you do play. For example, Winks has, Ononmah hasn't. And Janssen hasn't shown enough in my opinion. If I could describe the problem as succinctly as possible: he's simply unable to create enough separation between himself and defenders to even get shots away, so the fact he has a good shot is irrelevant. It's like having a big dick but not knowing any chat up lines. I often see Son's shooting criticized, but those people fail to realise the hardest skill was actually getting in a position to make the shot in the first place. It's not the fact Janssen's missing chances that makes it likely his PL career will be short, but it's the fact he's not even getting them, despite playing in one of the most creative teams in the PL. I would be more optimistic if he was at least missing a few good chances every time he plays.

I thought Janssen took a lot of shots (and has failed to score with any of them).

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

He has played in 32 games and he has had 32 sperate opportunities to score an outfield goal. So you cannot try to discount or try diminish that by trying to qualify this by minutes

Watch me.

He has scored 4 goals so you cannot diminish or discount that by complaining that they were all penalty kicks.

See? I can make up bollocks rules too.

 

[Spurs' Pipe Dreams]

He has played in 32 games and he has had 32 sperate opportunities to score an outfield goal. So you cannot try to discount or try diminish that by trying to qualify this by minutes, such a measurement is never used (and even if you did go by that basis it still a pretty dire record). He was signed as second striker, he was never going to be a first team starter and barring an injury to Kane he was never going see the same amount of minutes. And it is why the expectations would be less, I (and I suspect the club as well would have readily accepted 8-10 outfield league goals) in a campaign but we we are no where near that and highly unlikely to do that now. Given his current status it is difficult to see him even matching the likes of Postiga and Soldaldo first season outfield tally.

Vincent Janssen minutes 860, goals 4 = 215 minutes per goal*
Shane Long = 302 per goal
Jamie Vardy = 256 per goal
Solomon Rondon = 318/goal
Wilfred Bony = 345/goal

Open play, schmopen play. If it hits the back of the onion bag they count

edit - *all stats taken from https://www.whoscored.com I have not independently verified all figures but have divided minutes by goals. All maths are mine but I vigorously deny any liability in the figures. All maths are correct at the time of posting

 

[Khilari]

Soldado? WTF.

Signed as a first choice striker meant to play all the games.

Janssen, signed as prospect and backup to the best striker in the league. Thrown in at deep end earlier than expected and didn't do well. Lost confidence and has been trying to find it again.

Completely different set of circumstances! Cannot equate!

 

[TheHood]

Watch me.

He has scored 4 goals so you cannot diminish or discount that by complaining that they were all penalty kicks.

See? I can make up bollocks rules too.

Apart from the fact that it is not reflective of his ability as a striker as there been defenders, midifielders and even goal keepers who been penalty specialists.

But hey let's not qualify this then, he has 4 goals in 32 games. That's a pretty dysmal record wouldn't you say?

 

[TheHood]

Vincent Janssen minutes 860, goals 4 = 215 minutes per goal
Shane Long = 302 per goal
Jamie Vardy = 256 per goal
Solomon Rondon = 318/goal
Wilfred Bony = 345/goal

Open play, schmopen play. If it hits the back of the onion bag they count

And go outside of the Tottenham supporter base bubble and make a case that he has 4 goals in 9 games and see how far you get with out being ridiculed.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Apart from the fact that it is not reflective of his ability as a striker as there been defenders, midifielders and even goal keepers who been penalty specialists.

But hey let's not qualify this then, he has 4 goals in 32 games. That's a pretty dysmal record wouldn't you say?

He hasn't played 32 games. However, he HAS scored four goals.

And at 215 minutes per goal is the stats above are correct. Not the best return in the world but far from the worst.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

And go outside of the Tottenham supporter base bubble and make a case that he has 4 goals in 9 games and see how far you get which out being ridiculed.

Go to anyone with an ounce of sense and say he's played 32 games and use that as the yardstick to beat him with.

 

[Nine while nine]

And go outside of the Tottenham supporter base bubble and make a case that he has 4 goals in 9 games and see how far you get which out being ridiculed.

According to you, Janssen has had 32 separate opportunities to hit the target from open play.

Rather neatly, this was your 32nd post in this thread.

You too have now had 32 separate opportunities to hit the target and persuade us you're worth the time and effort to read and, frankly, all I'm seeing is you blasting away and everyone looking on unconvinced.

Can we therefore just support the player for the rest of the season and see what Poch decides to do in the summer.

Because if he goes, then fair enough, it hasn't worked and we can file him under 'failed experiments' with a variety of other players. But if he stays, then Poch definitely sees something there and we'd be stupid to ignore that, wouldn't we.

Wouldn't we?

 

[Spurs' Pipe Dreams]

And go outside of the Tottenham supporter base bubble and make a case that he has 4 goals in 9 games and see how far you get which out being ridiculed.

I don't speak to anyone who doesn't support Spurs, it makes my life easier

If some unfortunate starts a conversation with me about how many goals our second striker has scored, I just look at them blankly, shake my head in a very disapproving way and move to another room

 

[TheHood]

He hasn't played 32 games. However, he HAS scored four goals.

And at 215 minutes per goal is the stats above are correct. Not the best return in the world but far from the worst.

You are right he hasn't played in 32 games, he has played in fact 31. That's the figure as stated by a number player statistics.

But hey if you are happy with that ratio so be it, I'm not even remotely from the statistics I go by.

 

[TheHood]

According to you, Janssen has had 32 separate opportunities to hit the target from open play.

Rather neatly, this was your 32nd post in this thread.

You too have now had 32 separate opportunities to hit the target and persuade us you're worth the time and effort to read and, frankly, all I'm seeing is you blasting away and everyone looking on unconvinced.

Can we therefore just support the player for the rest of the season and see what Poch decides to do in the summer.

Because if he goes, then fair enough, it hasn't worked and we can file him under 'failed experiments' with a variety of other players. But if he stays, then Poch definitely sees something there and we'd be stupid to ignore that, wouldn't we.

Wouldn't we?

Post counting? Wonderful rebuttal.

And again we are back to the let's not cast any opinions just yet approach ( which is basically nothing more than I don't want to read anything that is critical ) that was wheeled out by many earlier in the season. Seriously what is the point of an internet discussion board if we have to wait for the club to decide on a player before we can voice our opinion?

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

You are right he hasn't played in 32 games, he has played in fact 31. That's the figure as stated by a number player statistics.

But hey if you are happy with that ratio so be it, I'm not even remotely from the statistics I go by.

If I were happy with your skewed view of things, your ratio or your rationale, whatever, i'd hardly have been arguing the toss now would I?

I'm being trolled and you're not very good at it. But come to think of it, we've been here before haven't we?

 

[Spurger King]

Janssen has been pretty disappointing though. No amount of statistical gymnastics will change that.

He had a run in the team when Kane was injured, and never looked close to even a tap-in. Smashed his penalties in well, but he's got the energy of a stoned slug. I think he has a good footballing brain in terms of creative decisions, but playing in slow motion doesn't help.

Doubt he'll get many more opportunities barring a Kane injury. Who knows what will happen though. Maybe he'll score the winner in the FA Cup final and become an instant legend.