Racism in management

[Real_madyidd]

The more I think about it, the more I find it increasingly strange that Ramsey was not offered the caretaker role.
.

Did he apply?

 

[absolute bobbins]

Did he apply?

One does not simply apply to become Spurs manager

 

[Mullers]

Hard to say. Over the past couple of years I've read a few reports saying the board are really impressed with Sherwood and see him as having a big future in the game.

Not surprised that he was the one to be given a chance.

Sherwood obviously wants to be a manager and wants to be at the top. Not sure if Ramsey is the same.

A few caretaker managers over the years have made it clear they will do the job temporarily but don't want to be a manager. It takes a certain kind of character to want it.

I probably read those same reports but it's clear that the board only wanted interm manager until the end of the season they are not going to make Sherwood the manager next season, so what was the point of appointing him?
This is what Ferdinand said a while back.

We've got a coach at Tottenham, Chris Ramsey, who works with the development squad and is one of the best coaches I've ever seen, but he'll never get an opportunity because he's not anyone's mate. We all know football's about giving jobs to your mates.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12384/7170036/jobs-for-the-boys

Comments from Chris Ramsey back in 2003
http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/942-October-2008/1130-opportunity-knocked

 

[Dan Yeats]

Why isn't Sol Campbell England manager eh? Eh? Racism, that's why.

He should have been England manager for the last ten years.

 

[Mullers]

Did he apply?

Don't know. But I don't know why he would need to, I don't think Ryan Giggs applied to be caretaker manager of Man Utd.

 

[Dan Yeats]

Did he apply?

What a good question.

FTR, my politics are slightly to the left of Karl Marx, and I'm active in various struggles against discrimination. Yeah, I'm essentially a raving hippy/anarchist/communist/whatever. But I've really never been convinced about the racism in football management thing.

If anything, I'd suggest that it's due to societal expectations imposed on young black men in their early years, rather than any form of discrimination when it comes to managerial selection.

It would be interesting and useful to see some stats on the proportional ethnic make-up of those taking elite-level UEFA coaching badges.

 

[Mullers]

What a good question.

FTR, my politics are slightly to the left of Karl Marx, and I'm active in various struggles against discrimination. Yeah, I'm essentially a raving hippy/anarchist/communist/whatever. But I've really never been convinced about the racism in football management thing.

If anything, I'd suggest that it's due to societal expectations imposed on young black men in their early years, rather than any form of discrimination when it comes to managerial selection.

It would be interesting and useful to see some stats on the proportional ethnic make-up of those taking elite-level UEFA coaching badges.

But Sherwood has no coaching badges and he's been given a chance at a top premiership club over a guy who has a FA coaching licence, FA coach education diploma and a diploma in treatment of sports injuries. So I mean someone looking can legitimately look at that and think what's the fucking point of doing all those qualifications if someone with no qualifications is going to jump ahead of me in the queue?

 

[Lufti]

It could literally be a case of him not wanting the job..

Maybe he doesn't want to be a manager.
Didn't want to start his managerial career at Tottenham (not the easiest job)
Didn't want to risk having to leave the club after his caretaker role.
Is happier as a coach.

Could be several reasons, I don't think we can even assume he was overlooked, might be reasons on his part. If anything, it's Freund who has been overlooked (should he have wanted the role). He has experience of coaching and managing German national youth teams, and actually works with the first team squad on a daily basis. He would have the most logical temporary appointment

 

[Mullers]

Or it could be like I said subconscious racism.

 

[chrissivad]

But Sherwood has no coaching badges and he's been given a chance at a top premiership club over a guy who has a FA coaching licence, FA coach education diploma and a diploma in treatment of sports injuries. So I mean someone looking can legitimately look at that and think what's the fucking point of doing all those qualifications if someone with no qualifications is going to jump ahead of me in the queue?

err, yes he does.

He has all bar the Uefa Pro Licence.
Ramsey passed this in 2006

 

[Dan Yeats]

But Sherwood has no coaching badges and he's been given a chance at a top premiership club over a guy who has a FA coaching licence, FA coach education diploma and a diploma in treatment of sports injuries. So I mean someone looking can legitimately look at that and think what's the fucking point of doing all those qualifications if someone with no qualifications is going to jump ahead of me in the queue?

But none of that is a legitimate question unless we know whether Ramsey wanted, or expressed a desire, for the job.

Now if he didn't, then that may point towards what I mentioned about expectation-setting and a possible problem there. But it doesn't indicate racism in the selection itself.

 

[Lufti]

Or it could be like I said subconscious racism.

I'm sorry but that's kind of ridiculous. I know racism does still exist in some parts, but a big problem in society is when people just assume racism..

 

[Mullers]

err, yes he does.

He has all bar the Uefa Pro Licence.
Ramsey passed this in 2006

The one that really counts.

 

[Mullers]

But none of that is a legitimate question unless we know whether Ramsey wanted, or expressed a desire, for the job.

Now if he didn't, then that may point towards what I mentioned about expectation-setting and a possible problem there. But it doesn't indicate racism in the selection itself.

I think it's a legitimate question, he should have been offered the role whether he expressed a desire or whether he wanted or not is neither here or there. He is qualified to do the role and more qualified then Sherwood. He took the assistant coaching role and I think any coach at tottenham would jump at the chance to take the caretaker role.

 

[Mullers]

I'm sorry but that's kind of ridiculous. I know racism does still exist in some parts, but a big problem in society is when people just assume racism..

If the assumption is there to make, why not make it? There are good grounds for assuming racism is involved.
I think it is probably scary for people to think there could be racism at spurs, as supporters put us on a pedal stool above the likes of Chelsea and west ham. Racism is a very complexed issue and nobody wants to be classed as racist but I've said a number of times someone who is guilty of racism isn't necessary a Nazi.

 

[Real_madyidd]

So we know that he wasn't offered it?

I think that if he had applied then he should have been in the running, however, maybe he enjoys the coaching side of things, or doesn't want to be a manager (not exatly a secure job compared to coaching). Maybe he doesn't want the fame/infamy?

 

[tiger666]

 

[Lufti]

If the assumption is there to make, why not make it? There are good grounds for assuming racism is involved.
I think it is probably scary for people to think there could be racism at spurs, as supporters put us on a pedal stool above the likes of Chelsea and west ham. Racism is a very complexed issue and nobody wants to be classed as racist but I've said a number of times someone who is guilty of racism isn't necessary a Nazi.

No, but it's an empty claim. You have nothing to suggest that he was overlooked because of his race. At this point in time your claim is about as toothless as Sol Campbell's 'I would have been captain for 10 years if I wasn't black' claim. If we go on the limited evidence you have, we can make claims left right and centre. Maybe Kane is getting a chance in the first team and Coulibaly isn't because Coulbaly is black.

 

[Lilbaz]

What a good question.

FTR, my politics are slightly to the left of Karl Marx, and I'm active in various struggles against discrimination. Yeah, I'm essentially a raving hippy/anarchist/communist/whatever. But I've really never been convinced about the racism in football management thing.

If anything, I'd suggest that it's due to societal expectations imposed on young black men in their early years, rather than any form of discrimination when it comes to managerial selection.

It would be interesting and useful to see some stats on the proportional ethnic make-up of those taking elite-level UEFA coaching badges.

Think it might have been mentioned in the thread. It was something like out of a thousand people in this country that had past their badges 17 were black.

 

[Mullers]

No, but it's an empty claim. You have nothing to suggest that he was overlooked because of his race. At this point in time your claim is about as toothless as Sol Campbell's 'I would have been captain for 10 years if I wasn't black' claim. If we go on the limited evidence you have, we can make claims left right and centre. Maybe Kane is getting a chance in the first team and Coulibaly isn't because Coulbaly is black.

He is qualified, he is black and to the best of my knowledge wasn't offered the role. That certainly enough for the accusation to be made and discussed.