Ratings v Arsenal

[Bus-Conductor]

Brilliant, well done for giving the best and most succesful manager we've had in my lifetime credit while at the same time bringing up the home record last season that ultimately cost us the CL.

While we only won 9 games, we only lost 1 and only United had a better record than that as for losses. We all know we drew too many games at home, was that down to Redknapp or the Chairman not signing the striking options we so desperately craved?

For those draws you're making an issue of there are very few teams we shouldn't have wiped the floor with at WHL last season, but again this is old news and yet you're still bringing it up? While you're at it you could mention our CL run when no one really fancied us to get out of the Group stages, all agains with a distinct lack of investment and injury problems.

Ignore the way the squad has been transformed and the quality we have now, instead, make an issue of poorer possession against a team which dominates possession in pretty much all their games, home and away....in a game we won (again, which doesn't usually happen for Spurs against Arsenal).

Bored talking about this now, such minor criticism (In a NLD we WON) weighed against such dramatic progress and comparitive success under the manager.

If he starts 4-4-2 against Newcastle, you can all make a thread registering your disgust.

Fuck this thread.

So no criticism then ?

By the way, perhaps you should update your sig to:

Defoe > VDV > Suarez

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Even 442, I'd still pick VDV ahead of Defoe as a striker with Adebayor.

 

[Blake Griffin]

friedel 6.5 - not much to do, but claimed a few crosses well

walker 7.5 - solid defensively and attacked well, great goal. might've done better on their goal
kaboul 6.5 - troubled by rvp early on but grew into the game, might've done better on their goal
king 7.5 - his usual self
ekotto 6.5 - not at his best but solid and marked walcott out of the game

vdv 7.5 - well taken goal, put bale, ade and parker through on goal, might've closed song down a bit better but was always going to be 2nd best in that situation
parker 8 - he must be shattered
modric 6 - poor by his standards but tactics didn't help that
bale 7 - ineffective 1st half, tore jenkinson to shreds in the 2nd

defoe 7 - good running for the team, some nice linkup play and involved more than usual
ade 6.5 - started well but faded, great ball to rafa for the goal

sandro 8 - game changed when he came on, was all over arsenal's midfield and intelligent running to set up the winner
livermore 6 - not on for long but slotted in well
corluka 6 - as above

 

[sloth]

Newcastle play 442 Paolo, so a 442 would be more than acceptable, although personally I'd still go 433. It's choosing your team according to what's put in front of you, you have failed to grasp this.

I'd still play 4-2-3-1 too. But as you say as against Liverpool who also played 4-4-2, so against any team which plays 4-4-2, 4-4-2 is a much more legitimate line-up. Only thing is I'd probably still drop Defoe and play Lennon on the right and VdV as second striker.

I think any formation which relies on VdV to play as a traditional right winger is asking for trouble down that side.

Personally though it would be 4-2-3-1 all the way with Lennon and Defoe as options from the bench.

 

[tobi]

Livermore got the run around at OT and then played most of the Hearts match on the Thursday night.

Sorry you're right, yeah Harry threw the game to make a point.

Don't be ridiculous, do one.

Take your anger elsewhere.

My point still stands, he knew what he was doing and after the fact he said that we were too open. How he doesn't recognise this before the game only he and his staff know...

Lambs to the slaughter.

 

[tRiKS]

Livermore got the run around at OT and then played most of the Hearts match on the Thursday night.

Sorry you're right, yeah Harry threw the game to make a point.

Don't be ridiculous, do one.

Livermoore didn't get the run around at old trafford.

For 60 mins we had more of the ball and the same amount of chances on and off target and arguably should have taken the lead.
After we conceeded we opened up more and Livermoore was taken off after 75mins and for the time he was off utd possesion went up 21% for the final 15mins. Individually he was the most accurate passer in the SPurs midfield (83%) and won every tackle he attempted. 3/3

I still stand by my thoughts on that game that Livermoore was the wrong player to have gone off. And 100% should hve started in CM V City over or with Kranjacr

Paolo10: starting to make sense.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Livermoore didn't get the run around at old trafford.

For 60 mins we had more of the ball and the same amount of chances on and off target and arguably should have taken the lead.
After we conceeded we opened up more and Livermoore was taken off after 75mins and for the time he was off utd possesion went up 21% for the final 15mins. Individually he was the most accurate passer in the SPurs midfield (83%) and won every tackle he attempted. 3/3

I still stand by my thoughts on that game that Livermoore was the wrong player to have gone off. And 100% should hve started in CM V City over or with Kranjacr

Paolo10: starting to make sense.

I think that is a pretty spot on assessment of the ManU game.

 

[Mr Pink]

Livermoore didn't get the run around at old trafford.

For 60 mins we had more of the ball and the same amount of chances on and off target and arguably should have taken the lead.
After we conceeded we opened up more and Livermoore was taken off after 75mins and for the time he was off utd possesion went up 21% for the final 15mins. Individually he was the most accurate passer in the SPurs midfield (83%) and won every tackle he attempted. 3/3

I still stand by my thoughts on that game that Livermoore was the wrong player to have gone off. And 100% should hve started in CM V City over or with Kranjacr

Paolo10: starting to make sense.

Yes this is spot on.

 

[double0]

Livermoore didn't get the run around at old trafford.

For 60 mins we had more of the ball and the same amount of chances on and off target and arguably should have taken the lead.
After we conceeded we opened up more and Livermoore was taken off after 75mins and for the time he was off utd possesion went up 21% for the final 15mins. Individually he was the most accurate passer in the SPurs midfield (83%) and won every tackle he attempted. 3/3

I still stand by my thoughts on that game that Livermoore was the wrong player to have gone off. And 100% should hve started in CM V City over or with Kranjacr

Paolo10: starting to make sense.

absolutely correct.

 

[SpurSince57]

So, to sum up, some people are a little tearful that we didn't totally muller the Goons.

If that's all we have to worry about, we don't have too many problems.

 

[Paolo10]

Livermoore didn't get the run around at old trafford.

For 60 mins we had more of the ball and the same amount of chances on and off target and arguably should have taken the lead.
After we conceeded we opened up more and Livermoore was taken off after 75mins and for the time he was off utd possesion went up 21% for the final 15mins. Individually he was the most accurate passer in the SPurs midfield (83%) and won every tackle he attempted. 3/3

I still stand by my thoughts on that game that Livermoore was the wrong player to have gone off. And 100% should hve started in CM V City over or with Kranjacr

Paolo10: starting to make sense.

My laptop keyboard is up the left so had to wait to reply to this.

Aren't you the guy who tried to tell me using statistics as your (failed) back-up that Modric had a good game against Citeh? Your selective stats there didn't explain the whole story, much like they don't in this instance either...so let me break it down for you Trixie (Do you mind if I call you that? I probably will anyway)...

First of all, let me assure you, Livermore did get the run around at Old Trafford, as would pretty much anyone with a defensive job to do in a midfield containing Niko, VdV (ish), Bale and Lennon. While he had a decent first half, he didn't do too much creative with the ball, which might back up your 83% pass success stat....ahh pass success, the stat to cover the ills of the unimaginative on the ball (reference our pass % midfield maestro currently on loan to Aston Villa at the moment).

Personally speaking I can see Livermore having a future at Spurs, he reminds me of Jenas with more bottle, but at the moment he should be nowhere near the first team and he hasn't even proved himself on loan at the lower sides yet. I'd quite like to see him prove his quality on loan at another Premier club, much like United did with Cleverley, who as it so happens was the man that Jake didn't get close enough to for the cross to make it 1-0 around the 60 minute mark (I actually said to my mate when I was watching the match, "Livermore's boiler's busted").

Funnily enough you mention the 60 minute mark in your little spiel, we had more of the ball before that? That's amazing, United going 1-0 4p at home and then seeing more of the ball...they came out and stepped up a gear after half time (we also had a forced change at that stage with Walker boking everywhere), in fact they'd the same amount of shots in the 15 minutes before the goal as they had in the whole of the first half.

You talk about how United's possession went up even more after Livermore went off, I'll get to that, but for now let's just look at how and why we changed (in my opinion).

We're 1-0 down, away from home, against the Champions, who if they hold on to the result will make it their 16th home win on the bounce (Up to 19 now, including Chelsea, Arsenal and Norwich)...do we try to win? Do we go for it? Harry thinks let's have a go. Huddlestone on for Livermore (who was shattered) and Pav up with Defoe to see if we can nick a goal, Huddlestone is more experienced than Livermore and is more likely to create chances or smack one into the onion bag from 30 yards plus...Pav as rubbish as he is, is a striker (said to be the 'best finisher at the club' not too long back), capable of the odd smasher.

As it turned out, when the subs happened United went 2-0 up (with a great move) a matter of seconds after and then with us being more open chasing an equaliser, Ferguson stuck with 2 up front (at home...see 4-4-2 vs 4-2-3-1 debate this all started from), but United didn't need to chase the game at 2-0 up...which is probably one of the other reasons why their possession went up after Livermore went off, at home, at 2-0 up...against the weakest centre midfield we've probably had out in 2 seasons. Huddlestone obviously had problems with his ankle, I thought he was just out of form, but the consequent performances and now the operation explains a fair bit.

Actually, if you want to hear the reasoning behind the subs from the horses mouth I found this...

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​

As for Livermore, he's a good prospect, but not up to the standard yet to be effectual in games against United (I honestly think he looked a little out of his depth, admirable effort, but out of his depth nonetheless) and City , who are in a different universe football-wise than Hearts, PAOK and Shamrock Rovers and if it's a choice between him and Modric playing, it's a no brainer. We were light with injuries and dragged our heels in the transfer marker, but is that down to Harry or the Chairman? I know what I think.

Tobi seemed to think Harry sacrificed 3 points against City to make a point to the Chairman, I seem to think the Chairman sacrificed those points to save himself a few million here and make a few million there, but that's just me.

It cost us, but it's done now...back to the Woolwich game, I'm still amazed about people gurning about this 4-4-2 at home, in a game we won, against an over-passing side, with no cutting edge who, quite deservedly lost.

tRiKs: Still misinterpreting stats while trying to justify himself, while ignoring important ones that don't suit his argument or agenda.

I could get the chalkboards out and pwn the life out of you again, but I'll leave it at that.

kthxbye :hello:

 

[ShelfSide18]

This still going? Still trying to force some kind of blame on the manager after a good win?

5 votes for Sandro man of the match? Fuck me.

Fucking comedic stuff. I'm out.

I thought you were done here?

 

[ealingspur]

People seem to be incorrectly equating Arsenal having a lot of the ball with Arsenal dominating the game. We dominated. They had 3 shots worth talking about: the goal, gervinho's miss and maybe walcott's left foot drive (that's at a stretch). We had 2 goals, Bale's 1 on 1, Ade's 1 on 1, VDV's quasi-1 on 1, parker's 1 on 1, modric's drive, Defoe's shot.

Having useless, harmless possession in positions that do not affect us is not dominating a game.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Paulo10

That clip seems to support what tRIKS was saying. Redknapp says "it was an even game first half and at the start of the second, then we conceded a goal and then I made changes and we became open".

I've seen Redknapp bring Huddlestone on before when chasing a game at OT and it has never worked. He did the same in the CC Cup last year at OT and it backfired then too (and he wasn't replacing a young kid but Palacios).

 

[Paolo10]

It's blatently obvious that Huddlestone didn't start because of his fitness.

At least we chased the game, what else do you lot want at 1-0 down at OT?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It's blatently obvious that Huddlestone didn't start because of his fitness.

At least we chased the game, what else do you lot want at 1-0 down at OT?

I don't want the changes to make us tactically weaker and more likely to loose the game than rescue it, which is what they did. We were only 1-0 down in a tight game at that point. Why panic and make it open game, at OT against Utd, this is hardly wise.

 

[Paolo10]

You're talking utter shite now, Livermore was completely wrecked, 1-0 is a loss and on the basis of that second half we needed to change to even have a chance of getting back into the game.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Does Redknapp ever get it wrong in your eyes ?

Modric and Kranjcar in CM against ManC ?

 

[Paolo10]

Does Redknapp ever get it wrong in your eyes ?

Modric and Kranjcar in CM against ManC ?

Through negotiations, injury and what not, who did we have available for CM?

For me, in order of quality and experience they were, Luka, Huddlestone (just returning from serious and now it seems prolonged injury), Niko (inconsistent) and Livermore (unproven against quality opposition and inexperienced).

Now, from them...

Luka - Zilch - Injury? Head not right? Refusing to play etc.

Niko - Thurs 18th Aug - 90mins - Hearts (A)
Mon 22nd Aug - 77mins - United (A)
Thurs 25th Aug - ~30mins - Hearts (H)

Hudd - Thurs 18th Aug - ~30mins - Hearts (A)
Mon 22nd Aug - 77mins - United (A)
Thurs 25th Aug - ~90mins - Hearts (H)

Livermore - Thurs 18th Aug - ~90mins - Hearts (A)
Mon 22nd Aug - 75mins - United (A)
Thurs 25th Aug - ~77mins - Hearts (H)

So that leaves us in the run up to the City game with Livermore having played the most in the space of a week and a few days, Hudd not looking great after his first 90minutes of the season and well short of match fitness, Luka, seemingly fit yet not having played at all for a while with the transfer window attracting furtive glances...and of course Niko, with the lovely feet and questionable workrate.

To be honest, I reckon he was thinking against City, we're at the bare bones, let's see if we can nick a goal and then close the game. City had just beaten Inter, narrowly lost to the Champions, dismantled Swansea and won away at Bolton pretty convincingly.

For all you lot know Livermore was carrying a knock, or sick or anything else...if he was fully fit and Harry went for an attacking two and the most experienced he could realistically put out I could understand that too.


Mind you, if we'd maybe ponied up for Parker a bit sooner he might have made a difference, but to be honest City and Dzeko/Nasri/Silva/Toure/Aguero were just too good that day.

Seeing as they're the only 2 results you lot can whinge about you can continue to look back on them to raise your ridiculous issues with the manager, who has done an absolutely brilliant job in his time at the club.

:duh:

 

[SpurSince57]

If the worst that happens this season is failing to totally muller Arsenal I'll not be unhappy.