Ratings v Arsenal

[Coyboy]

I will be more positive than SB and say it looks good that we are at the point where we can be so critical after beating Arsenal in the league which Redknapp has now done three times when four or five of his predecessors failed.

The thing is in a lot of those games over the years, we were the better team. But in hindsight and history, the results are what matter.

 

[StartingPrice]

defoe worked hard? seriously!!!! a jokes a joke but i dont think the lad can spell work hard let alone try it. he looks dangerous when he has a shot centrally from 20 yards out but he is a liability imvho. still does not now offside rule . time and again today got caught out by arsenals high line and he should not have been.

Defoe really, really did work very hard today, making tackles in the 2nd half of our own half, and helping with defending.
If you didn't see that, you might benefit from rewatching the game and focussing on this aspect of his game.

 

[worcestersauce]

Don't quite understand the negativity, Arsenal had their best game of the season but still weren't good enough. we played a team to score goals and we had some absolute gilt edged chances to do that, we did open them up but as the second half progressed it became a balance between going for the goals or strengthening the midfield, once it became clear we needed the latter more Harry brought on Sandro and hey presto the gate slammed shut and they never troubled us again.
As I see it the decision to start with VDV was correct as he scored, and the decision to sub him when we did was also correct.
A special mention for Benoit and the way he finished off Sanga without even giving away a foul.

 

[felmani26]

I agree to a certain degree as it was clearly evident that Arsenal were swarming all over our midfield and tactically, Harry was unable to rectify this and it was left to the players themselves to try and gain some kind of foothold in the match.

I also agree that whilst our defence was left exposed and especially down the right flank, they were in the main, solid and Kaboul and King continue to develop into a fantastic partnership.

Friedel 7 - Safe hands and was a calming influence on the back line.

Walker 7 - Great strike, albeit dodgy goalkeeping but defensively looked better than in previous games although still a bot of a rough diamond.

Kaboul 8 - Bar Van Perise skinning him a bit to easily, was a tower of strength at the heart of our defence and was dominant aerially against their frontline.

King 8 - Another fine performance from dear old Ledley and didn't let Van Persie get the better of him and makes defending look effortless.

BAE 7 - Some good moments and generally a good performance but there was some sloppy aspects which was compounded by the lack of protection.

Parker 8 - Really did the dirty job today and did it very well indeed, despite being outnumbered in the middle of the park. Should have scored but a fine all round display from someone who is the epitome of consistency.

Modric 6 - Not at his best today and his passing was not as incisive or as consistent as it should be but again, was not helped by being overwhelmed in the middle.

Bale 7 - decent from Gareth but again, not at his best and didn't help BAE out much defensively but having said that, still proved a thorn in Arsenals side and with his pace, will always create chances for us.

Van der Vaart 7 - Well taken goal but left us really exposed defensively and on another day, could well have seen red after a silly initial booking.

Defoe 7 - Worked hard but still has is irritating traits that refuse to go away and will never have that footballing intelligence to really push on to greater things.

Adebayor 6 - didn't think he had a great game and wasn't particularly imposing either aerially or on the deck. He also seemed to lack that ruthlessness that was present against Liverpool and I feel with Adebayor we will have a few more games akin to this but regardless, will still be our number 1 striker and we will rely on him.

 

[ShelfSide18]

It was a lucky win, but it really needn't have been had we been sent out with a better tactical plan - it really was a case of our tactics letting the team down, but thankfully Arsenal's team let their tactics down.

I don't get it, we had the perfect opportunity to match them in the middle with better players (for once) and dominate them from first to last, dominate possession, play the game in their half and probably stroll to a routine victory. But for some reason Redknapp opened the game up, turned it into a lottery and thankfully by the virtue of Arsenals makeshift defence looking like they'd never met a football before, and just generally being low in confidence and cutting edge we managed to win. I'm fucking delighted we've won, but like BC I can't hide my concerns with performances like this. I genuinely believe we could win the league with this team we are putting together, but not if we continue to be sent out to play like this.

I actually disagree with BCs analysis of Defoe today, I thought he played very well and worked his nuts off for the cause. Redknapp obviously asked him to drop deeper and pick up Coquelin to try and balance us up in the middle, and I watched him closely and to be fair to Defoe he did this with discipline - but, probably under instruction from Wenger, Coquelin just strolled forward when Defoe picked him up and often got a lot of space when he pushed on from deep. It was a miserable compromise from Redknapp there, why couldn't he have played Sandro and Parker with Modric buzzing about. We'd have been matched up in the middle, with better quality, and dominated possession.

Ratings are tough here because players like Modric and Parker were so let down by the tactics enforced upon them...

Friedel 7 Solid display, but their goal is a shining example of why I think in Gomes we have one of the best goalkeepers on the planet. The goal stemmed from a headed clearance from a cross into the area and Friedel was glued to his line - I would bet my house on Gomes coming for that ball and clearing the ball 40 yards up the pitch - danger averted. As it is, Kaboul headed it away, Arsenal have the ball in a dangerous area still and equalised.
Walker 7.5 He was put under immense pressure because of our open tactics and dealt with them as best he could and he came through it a notch higher in my(and I hope others) opinion. Full backs like Walker are best used going forwards, defending by attacking, playing high up the pitch and making the opposition wide players think backwards - like the Liverpool game. Despite being hung out to dry by Redknapp he came through it admirably, and a great hit for the goal.
BAE 7 He lost the ball a lot, but this was more due to having fuck all options to pass to because our midfielders were always outnumbered - all he could do was play speculative balls for Bale. When we play well like the Liverpool game, passing and moving well, he is fabulous on the ball.
Kaboul 7.5 Got beaten by RVP once but other than that was excellent.
King 8 I don't know how he does it.
VDV 6 Utterly hung out to dry by Redknapp today, he needs to play higher up the pitch, I think he could play from the right easily in a 433, but certainly not 442, and definitely not when Walker was so pegged back he wasn't as eager to bomb forward as much as we've seen. When he played where he should do, higher up the pitch he showed his quality.
Bale 6 Worked hard in spurts, but lazy for the rest of the time - this really has to be addressed. When he gets going running at players, he's dangerously good. If he worked harder he'll have the ball a lot more, and be able to unleash hell a lot more.
Modric 5 It was more due to the tactics employed, but Modric failed to gain control of the midfield and dictate our play as usual. If he'd have had Sandro and Parker as a solid base to work from, no doubt he would have controlled the game.
Parker 8 Coped better than Modric with being a man light in the middle, and really held us together today, but because he's not as dynamic as the likes of Sandro, or quick enough to get up and down the pitch like Jenas, really needs to be part of a midfield 3.
Defoe 8 I thought he worked his nuts off today, and was disciplined in picking up Coquelin when we weren't in possession (even though I think this tactic was a miserable compromise by Redknapp).
Adebayor 7 Whilst not his finest hour he still showed why he's such a massive upgrade on Pav/Crouch. Fabulous assist for VDV, shame he missed a sitter.

Sandro 8 As soon as he came on we were able to exert some control on proceedings, and played the game in their half - where they showed themselves to be paper thin.
Livermore 7 Similar to Sandro, he helped us press the ball better and was also assured in possession. I'm really starting to like this fella.

 

[NickHSpurs]

Defoe's work rate was incredible today, very impressed with him.

Parker was MoM for me though, outstanding performance!

 

[adamthfc]

Defoe was fucking superb today just behind parker for mom

 

[worcestersauce]

None of which would have been relevant if we'd scored the gilt edged chances we made Shelfside' we took the lead with our tactics and it wasn't tactics that got them their equalizer it was Song's determination getting to the line himself and feeding Ramsey, sheer individualism to match his outstanding performance on the day. As the balance shifted too far we subbed and adjusted. I agree a lot of it was frustrating but ultimately I didn't think they created much.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

Poor tactics, as Redknapp himself said it was pretty obvious at HT he needed to bring on Sandro for VdV and had he done so I don't think the goons would have scored. However, criticism of Defoe today is absurd, he was our most dangerous striker, working harder than Adebayor and holding the ball up better.

I'm going to say something that I know is going to have people go nuts but I'd sell VdV in January, we can't afford a player who only ever lasts 60 minutes and with Adebayor at the club now we can no longer say it is just about having the wrong partner for him. Quality player for sure but we need one who can play for 90 minutes and in this league one who can defend from the front too in a Rooney / Tevez manner. VdV is better suited to a slower league like Spain or Italy. Let the abuse begin......

 

[Mr Pink]

you're crazy :grin:

 

[Beni]

You lot are never pleased.

Yes, they may have outplayed us in parts, but for all their possession, how many clear chances did they have? I count there goal and Gervinhos shot that went just wide in the 1st half and thats it.

We could have embarassed them today if we had put our clear cut chances:-
1. Bale clean through after the Arsenal back four let the ball run to him.
2. Parker 1 on 1
3. Adebayor 1 on 1
4. Defoe shot palmed away
5. Modric scuffing his shot in the box when should have done better.

Thats just off the top of my head after a number of beers......... we won, win our game in hand we're 4th..........Enjoy it.

 

[fortworthspur]

VdV's definitely a luxury, but one I'd keep. He'd be great as a sub, but would never accept that role.

 

[tooey]

Poor tactics, as Redknapp himself said it was pretty obvious at HT he needed to bring on Sandro for VdV and had he done so I don't think the goons would have scored. However, criticism of Defoe today is absurd, he was our most dangerous striker, working harder than Adebayor and holding the ball up better.

I'm going to say something that I know is going to have people go nuts but I'd sell VdV in January, we can't afford a player who only ever lasts 60 minutes and with Adebayor at the club now we can no longer say it is just about having the wrong partner for him. Quality player for sure but we need one who can play for 90 minutes and in this league one who can defend from the front too in a Rooney / Tevez manner. VdV is better suited to a slower league like Spain or Italy. Let the abuse begin......

I wouldn't be looking to sell him, though if a extremely good offer came in and we already had a replacement lined up then I could stomach it. He is however an extremely talented footballer and gives it his all, on his day he's one of the best in the world, on some occasions he's... meh.

 

[Phil_2.0]

Ugh, cant believe i have to read criticism of any player today or Redknapp. How silly do you all look now Redknapp has got us 12 points from 6 tough games.

Friedel - 7. So solid, So reliable

Walker - 7.5. .5 for the goal, 7 good solid defensive performance, didnt offer much going forward outside of his goal.

Kaboul 7.5 - Decent

King 8 - Hero

BAE 7 - Sloppy in possession

VDV 8 - FANTASTICALLY taken goal, brilliant work ethic and always tries to win us a game.

Modric - 7 Good defensively today, didn't quite click offensively

Parker 8 - Great work rate defensively

Bale - 7.7 Wow what an athlete he is

Adebayor 7 - Went missing for large parts of the game, i think he needs to drop in the hole and not Defoe

Defoe 7 - Worked so hard off the ball, filled in well when VDV went hunting goals

Sandro 7 - Did pretty well

Livermore 6.6 - Okay

 

[danielneeds]

Redknapp actually says something very interesting in this longer interview on the Beeb, that he doesn't mind ceding possession to Arsenal if they don't create as many chances as his team:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15145366.stm

Whilst I didn't mind this approach in the Danny Rose 2-1 victory, as I felt they were still too good in midfield to match, I don't understand it now. Sandro, Parker, Modric, Bale and VDV are stronger than anything they can offer now, we should be looking to dominate the possession.

 

[adamthfc]

Redknapp actually says something very interesting in this longer interview on the Beeb, that he doesn't mind ceding possession to Arsenal if they don't create as many chances as his team:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15145366.stm

Whilst I didn't mind this approach in the Danny Rose 2-1 victory, as I felt they were still too good in midfield to match, I don't understand it now. Sandro, Parker, Modric, Bale and VDV are stronger than anything they can offer now, we should be looking to dominate the possession.

Why? Possesion means fuck all if you do nothing with it

 

[Yid-ol]

You lot are never pleased.

Yes, they may have outplayed us in parts, but for all their possession, how many clear chances did they have? I count there goal and Gervinhos shot that went just wide in the 1st half and thats it.

We could have embarassed them today if we had put our clear cut chances:-
1. Bale clean through after the Arsenal back four let the ball run to him.
2. Parker 1 on 1
3. Adebayor 1 on 1
4. Defoe shot palmed away
5. Modric scuffing his shot in the box when should have done better.

Thats just off the top of my head after a number of beers......... we won, win our game in hand we're 4th..........Enjoy it.

You forgot defies little chip, if that had gone in it would have been a great finish, just went wide

 

[dvdhopeful]

A lucky win when we had 3 1v1's, numerous other chances and Arsenal created barely anything?

Harry made a choice to go more attacking, conceed possession but create good chances (BBC had it 49% vs 51%, Sky had it further apart on their website but the same as the BBC on their wrap up).

Don't understand how some people are so vociferous in their condemnation of Harry - they controlled the game for longer periods than we did, but can anyone remember any saves Friedal had to make? Can anyone remember the Sneezy's saves against Parker, VDV and Ade? Not to mention Bale rolling the ball past the post and 'The Sneeze' diving to push a Defoe chance wide.

Boggles the mind, from reading this thread possession was 30% v 70% and Friedal had an absolute blinder.

 

[Black]

I go back quite a way (not as far as the likes of SS57 who witnessed our very first FA Cup win), and I am forming a theory. It goes like this; I remember when, in the early eighties, we were the team that played the best football in the league and Arsenal were a very decent side who never outplayed us but always managed to beat us. We played better football, The ball just always seemed to role their way. Karma eh....

Redknapp got this hugely wrong. He's like a goldfish, he learns a lesson, forgets it, learns it, forgets it.

I've just heard his post match interview and it baffles me even more. He said something like:

"They had the extra body in midfield so they were always going to dominate in there. I nearly changed it at half time but decided to give it a bit longer. I played Rafa on the right and it doesn't really suit him and he doesn't get back so great."

Then why the fuck did you pick this team and play these tactics and then take so long to correct them. And even when he did, Defoe should have come off.

He made one change from Wigan and managed to make every part of the pitch weaker. Defoe tried hard but is so weak and ineffectual - and the next time he's offside I feel it would be kinder to just pull a tent round him and put him (and us) out of our misery - we effectively were one footballer down on Arsenal for the whole match. And this was most evident in midfield where Redknapp's team/tactics effectively made it a 2 v 5 midfield at times, which was exasperated by a poor Modric performance (not helped obviously by the tactics).

What disappoints me most is I think this Arsenal side are the worst for 15 years. We shouldn't have needed fortune to beat them. If we'd have pressed their back four like we did Liverpool's we'd have scared them shitless.

We created some fabulous positions on the break and wasted every single one of them with poor choices or poor delivery. I can't remember a game recently, where we had so many 1v1's and didn't score a single one.

Until Sandro came on we were second best all over the pitch to a very ordinary and make shift looking Arsenal side. Second to every ball, second in work rate and movement, second in moving the ball around.

We humped more long balls than short ones, and were so open at times it was scary. It was really only Parker, Kaboul and King holding us together.

And I lost count of the times players found themselves in possession with no-one giving them an option and having to twist and turn as Arsenal players pack hunted them down and took the ball or forced errors. Really poor.

Then Sandro came on and for the first time in the game we didn't look like a poor team. Leaving Defoe on still left us a footballer light but at least it was now 3 v 5 in midfield instead of 2. Gradually we started stringing more than 2 passes together occasionally and by the time all the subs were made (which still amazingly left Defoe on the pitch) we had actually managed to get a foothold in the game.

I guess it's greedy to want performance and result, but I honestly believe we were capable of it with the team we have against the team they have.

Ratings:

Friedel 7 - OK, if Arsenal could shoot they'd be dangerous.

Walker 7.5 - His most competent performance to date, crowned with a pile driver.

Kaboul 7.5 - Outstanding today bar the moment when VP skanked him.

King 7.5 - As above.

Ekotto 6 - Worked hard and gets flimsy fucking help from Bale but also gave the ball away a lot.

VDV 6.5 - Played out of position against the worst opposition to be played out of position. Showed what he can do when played in the right place when he scored, unfortunately Redknapp's tactics cost us that pleasure more often. Took his goal superbly, but also took a stupid booking.

Modric 5.5 - Very poor. 31 passes is about half his average. But again, this was partly because Redknapp effectively pitted him and Parker against 5 players.

Parker 7.75 - Saw more ball then Modric, worked his little legs off. My MOTM.

Bale 6.5 - Really hard to mark today. Going forward looked good at times and did play a couple of good balls, but also wasted 3/4 great positions and missed completely with a 1v1. Defensively piss poor at times. Lilly livered, half arsed efforts to close down and help Ekotto.

Adebayor 6.5 - Below the par of recent performances I thought. Again, not helped by the tactics, which in turn hampered performances elsewhere, but there were a few times I thought he could have done better. Didn't think his movement was as good today. Even on a bad day manages to set up a goal with a delightful bit of vision.

Defoe 6 - marks for hard work.

Redknapp 3 - see above. if you can't be good, be lucky eh.

Agree with this 100%

Especially the defoe part, how can he play our top scorer out on the right to accommodate defoe up front. madness

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

I wouldn't be looking to sell him, though if a extremely good offer came in and we already had a replacement lined up then I could stomach it. He is however an extremely talented footballer and gives it his all, on his day he's one of the best in the world, on some occasions he's... meh.

What if Milan offered 16 mil for VdV and we could buy one of Eden Hazard for 25 mil, Lucas for 20 mil, Shaqiri or Marin for 10 mil as a replacement ?