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Mr Pink

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Perhaps there was less tactical instruction, but that might have been because they built their tactics around the instincts of the players rather than trying to get the players to adapt in order comply with a managerial blueprint. Harry used to talk about seeing how players fitted together; whereas AVB, for instance, would stick with a plan even when palpably lacking the players to make it work. I had hoped Poch might take more of a middle road, but it seems to me that both Eriksen and Adebayor have gone backwards since he took over; Christian really has not had any good games under Poch (and I am struggling to think of any under AVB come to that - tactical instruction really does not seem to be his thing, at least not at this stage in his development). Nor is there is much sign of anyone else raising their game to compensate. Only Rose has really looked better this season, but then he was hung out to dry by the free role that Sherwood gave Eriksen.
Still very early days though Eddie so its not really fair to draw those conclusions yet is it?

For instance, when we master what Poch wants, or at least some of it, there's every chance that you'll see more consistent performances from Eriksen, for example.

He'll also be able to weed out who definitely doesn't fit over the course of the season.

Point being if we're better off as a team overall under Poch's methods they all benefit from the greater collective good - if that makes sense.

Sherwood and Harry like to keep things simple. Yes that can be a huge benefit in the short to medium term. But if you want a successful long term plan I think a 'blueprint' is absolutely essential. Players come and go, you need an ethos, style and identity so you can go out and bring players in to replace those that go out with as little fuss as possible.
 
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Perhaps there was less tactical instruction, but that might have been because they built their tactics around the instincts of the players rather than trying to get the players to adapt in order comply with a managerial blueprint. Harry used to talk about seeing how players fitted together; whereas AVB, for instance, would stick with a plan even when palpably lacking the players to make it work. I had hoped Poch might take more of a middle road, but it seems to me that both Eriksen and Adebayor have gone backwards since he took over; Christian really has not had any good games under Poch (and I am struggling to think of any under AVB come to that - tactical instruction really does not seem to be his thing, at least not at this stage in his development). Nor is there is much sign of anyone else raising their game to compensate. Only Rose has really looked better this season, but then he was hung out to dry by the free role that Sherwood gave Eriksen.
Bale didn't do to bad under AVB.

The other way to look at it is how much better might we have done under Redknapp if instead of letting players do what the hell they wanted he got them working more cohesively with and without the ball. Isn't that what the best coaches do ? Would Ferguson, Mourinho, Pep etc allow players "freedom" to do what they want, where they want ? Maybe we'd have achieved more than one CL qualifying round (like Liverpool did last year - in a tougher league) with players like Modric, Bale, VDV, Adebayor all in the same team.

Redknapp doesn't have a clue how players fit together, which is why he's under achieved with nearly every side he's managed, whilst getting his tabloid chums to sell it as "as good as it gets".
 
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In the short term putting in a system to fit the players sounds great, but then we risk being screwed when players leave (as has been the case so often). I'm happy to take the rough with the smooth for the long term approach of having a system and fitting players to it. It will lead to bad games, it will lead to perhaps an underwhelming final league position, and some players won't adapt. Personally, for the long term benefits of having a system in place I'm happy to be patient and see which players fit, and which players don't. Ultimately, long term sustained success relies on a system, and building that system takes time in the first place. The players who don't fit will be replaced by players who do fit. Adebayor may well not. If so, he'll be replaced by someone who does move intelligently, harass centre backs, link up play etc. I believe that player might already be here. Eriksen may also struggle, but I think he's young enough and hungry enough to get there. Arguments can be made for and against the majority of our squad. By mid season, we'll have a far better idea, and by May even moreso. What this club needs is stability, and we as fans need to invest in that for a long time, because all change will do now is put us back at square one yet again.
 

Mr Pink

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Fair point, and I am not giving up on Poch any time soon. But recent performances have felt very AVB-ish and that makes me uneasy.
Some differences for me though, albeit they've only been small patches and glimpses.

We have seen more intensity, certainly against QPR - no matter how poor they were, we still showed more intensity that day, right from the off. It sets the tone.

Then for some reason Liverpool arrived and we totally froze.

Anyway, erratic performances are to be expected when when trying to learn a new way of playing.

But keep the faith mate, Pochettino will get us playing the way we want to see in time, confident about that.
 

Spurs_Bear

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Bale didn't do to bad under AVB.

The other way to look at it is how much better might we have done under Redknapp if instead of letting players do what the hell they wanted he got them working more cohesively with and without the ball. Isn't that what the best coaches do ? Would Ferguson, Mourinho, Pep etc allow players "freedom" to do what they want, where they want ? Maybe we'd have achieved more than one CL qualifying round (like Liverpool did last year - in a tougher league) with players like Modric, Bale, VDV, Adebayor all in the same team.

Redknapp doesn't have a clue how players fit together, which is why he's under achieved with nearly every side he's managed, whilst getting his tabloid chums to sell it as "as good as it gets".
You really are an hilarious bitter old queen when it comes to Redknapp aren't you, so hard to take anything you say seriously.

Back to Eriksen, he had a really good first outing against Norwich before AVB worked his magic on him, then he fell away under the weight of trying to remember where to stand in the 18th minute of a game, he has been better under Poch but isn't the main man he was under Sherwood, he's being asked to do too much without the ball, at the moment I don't see how we fit him and Lamela into the same team, our inside forwards aren't enough of a goal threat. Probably why Poch wanted JRod so much, he's a converted striker.
 

Spurs_Bear

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Some differences for me though, albeit they've only been small patches and glimpses.

We have seen more intensity, certainly against QPR - no matter how poor they were, we still showed more intensity that day, right from the off. It sets the tone.

Then for some reason Liverpool arrived and we totally froze.

Anyway, erratic performances are to be expected when when trying to learn a new way of playing.

But keep the faith mate, Pochettino will get us playing the way we want to see in time, confident about that.
I agree and to be honest I think we're being unfair on Poch when labelling him a bit 'AVB', he's only had 5 games and it took AVB half a season to change us from the sit deep and shit ourselves side that we were at the start, one of the reasons for so many late goals conceded. Give it to Christmas and I think we'll have more of an idea.
 

Mr Pink

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I agree and to be honest I think we're being unfair on Poch when labelling him a bit 'AVB', he's only had 5 games and it took AVB half a season to change us from the sit deep and shit ourselves side that we were at the start, one of the reasons for so many late goals conceded. Give it to Christmas and I think we'll have more of an idea.
Yeah I'm confident we'll enjoy the football under Poch and we'll be doing well with it.

Wouldn't surprise me if the second half of the season is a lot stronger. Even if it isn't I'm strapped in the for the long haul no matter how painful this season turns out to be.

I really wanted us to appoint him and really glad we have, but he needs time and I'm totally prepared to be patient.
 
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You really are an hilarious bitter old queen when it comes to Redknapp aren't you, so hard to take anything you say seriously.

Back to Eriksen, he had a really good first outing against Norwich before AVB worked his magic on him, then he fell away under the weight of trying to remember where to stand in the 18th minute of a game, he has been better under Poch but isn't the main man he was under Sherwood, he's being asked to do too much without the ball, at the moment I don't see how we fit him and Lamela into the same team, our inside forwards aren't enough of a goal threat. Probably why Poch wanted JRod so much, he's a converted striker.

We fit them in by playing them in different positions, the positions they have been playing are perfect for them (Eriksen ACM, Lamela ARM). Eriksen hasn't been better under Pochettino at all. He's had one decent game so far. One of our wide forwards has three goals this season.

FDB didn't get the best out of Eriksen by being a tactical hippy. Mourinho seems to keep winning things whilst making players remember where to stand on the the 18th minute. And Bale seemed to do OK whilst having to remember where to stand in the 18th minute of a game under AVB.

AVB and Pochettino didn't/aren't getting everything right but they are not to blame for everything that the likes of Eriksen, Lamela and Adebayor are doing wrong.
 

Spurs_Bear

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We fit them in by playing them in different positions, the positions they have been playing are perfect for them (Eriksen ACM, Lamela ARM). Eriksen hasn't been better under Pochettino at all. He's had one decent game so far. One of our wide forwards has three goals this season.

FDB didn't get the best out of Eriksen by being a tactical hippy. Mourinho seems to keep winning things whilst making players remember where to stand on the the 18th minute. And Bale seemed to do OK whilst having to remember where to stand in the 18th minute of a game under AVB.

AVB and Pochettino didn't/aren't getting everything right but they are not to blame for everything that the likes of Eriksen, Lamela and Adebayor are doing wrong.
I don't think they are, you're being too rigid, surprisingly. I think you can only have one maverick in the front 3 behind the 1, for us it's Lamela or Eriksen, not both, I don't see them allowing each other to play well together, I would actually prefer to see something like:

Dembele Lamela Chadli

behind a striker.

And I think you've got Mourinho the coach very wrong, again unsurprisingly.

And your memory of Bale is again not quite right, he only seemed to do well when ignoring what he'd been told for 89 minutes, to stick one in the top bin from 30 yards.
 
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I don't think they are, you're being too rigid, surprisingly. I think you can only have one maverick in the front 3 behind the 1, for us it's Lamela or Eriksen, not both, I don't see them allowing each other to play well together, I would actually prefer to see something like:

Dembele Lamela Chadli

behind a striker.

And I think you've got Mourinho the coach very wrong, again unsurprisingly.

And your memory of Bale is again not quite right, he only seemed to do well when ignoring what he'd been told for 89 minutes, to stick one in the top bin from 30 yards.

I think you're wrong about me being wrong, unsurprisingly.
 

Spurs_Bear

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@Spurs_Bear

Although I don't much mind the idea of Dembele/Lamela/Chadli if Eriksen isn't playing well, I think I said that's what I would have done Sunday in my ratings post.
It's something I've been thinking, the best 4231s only really allow for 1 free spirit unless they've got 2 world class CMs, and while we haven't got these CMs I'd like to see us a little more robust.
 
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It's something I've been thinking, the best 4231s only really allow for 1 free spirit unless they've got 2 world class CMs, and while we haven't got these CMs I'd like to see us a little more robust.
I've been saying for a long time that for the most part I would only really want Dembele playing in that kind of position.

He just doesn't move the ball quick enough to play in CM.
 

ultimateloner

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Theres no point talking tactics with that kind of performance.
Its a mental thing. The team looked nervous..i can't figure out why.
 

fortworthspur

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Theres no point talking tactics with that kind of performance.
Its a mental thing. The team looked nervous..i can't figure out why.

yup. not one of them looked tuned in. for one thing they need a leader - Dawson and Sandro are gone. who in that side is invested in Spurs? Maybe Kaboul. I know its all a bit cliche, but of the starting 11, only Kaboul, Rose and Ade have more than 2 years at the club.
 

ultimateloner

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yup. not one of them looked tuned in. for one thing they need a leader - Dawson and Sandro are gone. who in that side is invested in Spurs? Maybe Kaboul. I know its all a bit cliche, but of the starting 11, only Kaboul, Rose and Ade have more than 2 years at the club.
I think Kaboul is past his prime...which is why I find his captain appointment so strange.
 
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