Ratings vs Manchester United

[jonathanhotspur]

Sorry what? You're better than this JH, you've become very bitter recently.

Lazy without the ball? Compared to a time before AVB, it was positively relentless off the ball. Paulinho and Soldado I thought showed the beginnings of a good understanding and was an interesting and effective move from AVB. The problem this did create though was we had no one breaking from deep midfield, Dembele needed to advance a lot more rather than sit alongside Sandro, although it did protect us when Utd broke. Risk, reward innit.

Also obvious that when you revert to a counter-attacking style, whereby you have to attack quicker and more directly, that your pass % is going to drop, and whilst not always the way I want to see us play, I thought it was shrewd, if we'd had played as per usual, I think they'd have pummelled us on the counter.

Just disappointed a little by AVBs in game management, and think that by Pauinho pressing high up it played into Utd's hands as they built through their full backs which suited them due to their preference for wide play. Would have asked Paulinho to drop right off, wide players push up and force them to play through Jones and Cleverly.

A lot more positives today for me, but the problem still persists, when most teams pitch up and dig a trench, how do we improve our ability to break them down?

Bitter? I'm fucking angry but then I think you have your tongue up AVB's arse, Shelfie.

Yes, I thought we were a bit on the lazy side. And I thought nobody was lazier than Paulinho. How he lasted 90 minutes is beyond me. I thought it was desperation stuff to play him in the hole.

When did AVB decide that we would go from trying to win the possession to playing on the counter? What we saw served up today wasn't unlike a four course meal from Harry Redknapp.

 

[only1waddle]

1. Yes, I think this is an ordinary Utd side. They had Cleverley and Jones in midfield. How have we gone from being so careful in possession to being so careless with it?

2. Last night on Twitter Ade implied that he was dropped. Said it was not his decision that he would be watching the game instead of playing.

3. I'd rather AVB wasn't getting so ratty in his dealings with the media.

We can't have it both ways, we whinge when our possession is careful and we go nowhere, now we aren't careful enough, we simply had to take chances today and maybe that resulted in a few of our players overdoing it playing the ball forward carelessly, i see that as a start though, as a better building block than the negative approach, or rut we were getting into, play our same 11 again, or maybe just 1/2 tweaks and i think we push on, we start to have a unit and know when to move the ball and when not too, it was all about attitude today, and getting that negative mentality removed.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

We still managed to create more clear cut chances than they did. I thought we definitely played with more intensity. I'm not saying that produced a great transformation in the football played, but it gave us more opportunity to carve out clear cut chances - something we simply have failed to do in most games this season.

There was a willingness to force the issue, making something happen instead of waiting for it to happen and shirking responsibility. That in my book is progress, so I'm encouraged. It doesn't me all our problems have been solved, but at least I feel they've been acknowledged.

Well I think the system is absolute bollocks, Mr Pink. And I think AVB doesn't have a clue what his best team is.

We had more chances because we didn't have control of the game. I need BC to come on here and explain it all to me.

 

[Mr Pink]

Well I think the system is absolute bollocks, Mr Pink. And I think AVB doesn't have a clue what his best team is.

We had more chances because we didn't have control of the game. I need BC to come on here and explain it all to me.

You think the system is bollox, but you need it all explained to you ?

 

[jonathanhotspur]

We can't have it both ways, we whinge when our possession is careful and we go nowhere, now we aren't careful enough, we simply had to take chances today and maybe that resulted in a few of our players overdoing it playing the ball forward carelessly, i see that as a start though, as a better building block than the negative approach, or rut we were getting into, play our same 11 again, or maybe just 1/2 tweaks and i think we push on, we start to have a unit and know when to move the ball and when not too, it was all about attitude today, and getting that negative mentality removed.

I know we can't have it both ways. It's all about balance and I thought we threw the baby out with the bathwater today.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

You think the system is bollox, but you need it all explained to you ?

That was a joke, like.

 

[Mr Pink]

That was a joke, like.

I know, I know...

Well lets see how we do against Fulham and Sunderland. Will be interesting for sure. My one worry is that it was United today, so it was easy for there to be up for it. The next two are the acid test in many ways.

 

[Legend10]

Sorry what? You're better than this JH, you've become very bitter recently.

Lazy without the ball? Compared to a time before AVB, it was positively relentless off the ball. Paulinho and Soldado I thought showed the beginnings of a good understanding and was an interesting and effective move from AVB. The problem this did create though was we had no one breaking from deep midfield, Dembele needed to advance a lot more rather than sit alongside Sandro, although it did protect us when Utd broke. Risk, reward innit.

Also obvious that when you revert to a counter-attacking style, whereby you have to attack quicker and more directly, that your pass % is going to drop, and whilst not always the way I want to see us play, I thought it was shrewd, if we'd had played as per usual, I think they'd have pummelled us on the counter.

Just disappointed a little by AVBs in game management, and think that by Pauinho pressing high up it played into Utd's hands as they built through their full backs which suited them due to their preference for wide play. Would have asked Paulinho to drop right off, wide players push up and force them to play through Jones and Cleverly.

A lot more positives today for me, but the problem still persists, when most teams pitch up and dig a trench, how do we improve our ability to break them down?

I think there's a lot wrong with this post and that AVB set us up really well today, I was a little worried when I saw the side that it was going to be more of the same but it was nothing like it and it was what he done with Paulinho that made all the difference. People can dress it up and argue all they like but we basically pushed Paulinho up right alongside Soldado and played most of that game as a 442 which IMHO was exactly the right thing to do.

It was Paulinho's best game for us, Soldado looked so much better with somebody closer to him and Sandro and Dembele looked exactly what they were until Sandro got injured last season.

For me this was our best performance of the season so far and at last we looked like we could create chances! And I don't see how UTD building through their FB's helped them they basically created nothing and i must have missed what Evera and Smalling offered them because I saw nothing, they got 2 fortunate goals from mistakes and that was basically their lot and we fully deserved to win the game, very unlucky IMHO.

Really happy with today, just hope we carry on with the adventure!

 

[TheSecretNonFootballer]

Well I think the system is absolute bollocks, Mr Pink. And I think AVB doesn't have a clue what his best team is.

We had more chances because we didn't have control of the game. I need BC to come on here and explain it all to me.

Do you know what our best team is?

 

[ShelfSide18]

Bitter? I'm fucking angry but then I think you have your tongue up AVB's arse, Shelfie.

Yes, I thought we were a bit on the lazy side. And I thought nobody was lazier than Paulinho. How he lasted 90 minutes is beyond me. I thought it was desperation stuff to play him in the hole.

When did AVB decide that we would go from trying to win the possession to playing on the counter? What we saw served up today wasn't unlike a four course meal from Harry Redknapp.

I may do, but I've never hidden that. I think he's a very good coach and that's exactly what we needed after what we had before. Tactically I think he's hit and miss, and have always called out my misgivings with his in game management - particularly his habit of reaching for Defoe which is predictably inexplicable week in week out.

I didn't see this laziness at all, and can't fathom how you can say Paulinho was lazy from what I saw - I just didn't see this at all, from any of our team. Why was it desperation stuff? D'you think someone who is known for how methodical he is would just chuck Paulinho in and hope for the best?

I love it, he gets habitually slagged off for not being adaptable and willing to bend on his philosophy then when he does, which I would guess was in anticipation of a team that is known for how good they are on the counter, and how vulnerable we've been to teams like City and West Ham who have countered with a purpose, he gets slagged for for compromising on his philosophy. Love it.

What we see now is a million miles away from Redknapp's mayhem.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

1. Yes, I think this is an ordinary Utd side. They had Cleverley and Jones in midfield. How have we gone from being so careful in possession to being so careless with it?

2. Last night on Twitter Ade implied that he was dropped. Said it was not his decision that he would be watching the game instead of playing.

3. I'd rather AVB wasn't getting so ratty in his dealings with the media.

1 - Had AVB had us being more careful in possession, he'd get you slaughtering him for being too boring, or cautious etc. Today we tried more to 'go for it' and, were it not for a couple of lapses, we'd be celebrating 3 points.

2 - Hmm, I wonder why Adebayor wasn't on twitter on Thursday night? Saying it's not his decision to not be in the freezing cold Tromso climate? What an amazing upturn of events this has turned out to be.

3 - AVB isn't getting ratty with the media, far from it. He's been with us for almost exactly 17 months and, for almost exactly 17 months, he's been swiping away sly shots, unnecessary digs, and downright unnecessary slurs upon his ability and his character. The time has come where he is simply telling these pathetic specimens of humanity, disguised as reporters, to "fuck off", and rightly so too, in my opinion.

Jonathan, tell me, how do you think you'd handle things if you had endured the same 17 months as AVB has? Let's not also forget the field day that these reporters had when they embraced his Chel$ki dismissal. He's actually had to put up with the press' bullshit for considerably longer than his 17 months with us. If anything, he deserves applause for how he's conducted (restrained?) himself.

 

[Bingy]

I thought Walker was ace today, but I'd give it to Dembele, unfortunately the only time he lost the ball was for their first goal.

Walker is just about 'average' and was responsible for much of the 'mayhem' that we suffered, today (and every day....since he arrived). He scored a wonder goal....but thewn made a wonder-assist to 'equalise' for Mancaster....and he is a weak-link, on too many occasions....but...no alternative....We are NOT a good team, anymore....and, whether it is the fault of AVB or the players...it is a SERIOUS concern....again. We could start again and SACK the Manager...and set ourselves bakh a year or two....as is the Levi way....awww never mind....it is just frustration...again COYS!

 

[jamesc0le]

i wish we'd play chiriches at left back. he'd probably get raped by valencia too but at least he would relish the getting forward part and would probably pin valencia back a bit.

great player, at this rate, may turn out one of the players of the season, for sure

 

[ShelfSide18]

I think there's a lot wrong with this post and that AVB set us up really well today, I was a little worried when I saw the side that it was going to be more of the same but it was nothing like it and it was what he done with Paulinho that made all the difference. People can dress it up and argue all they like but we basically pushed Paulinho up right alongside Soldado and played most of that game as a 442 which IMHO was exactly the right thing to do.

It was Paulinho's best game for us, Soldado looked so much better with somebody closer to him and Sandro and Dembele looked exactly what they were until Sandro got injured last season.

For me this was our best performance of the season so far and at last we looked like we could create chances! And I don't see how UTD building through their FB's helped them they basically created nothing and i must have missed what Evera and Smalling offered them because I saw nothing, they got 2 fortunate goals from mistakes and that was basically their lot and we fully deserved to win the game, very unlucky IMHO.

Really happy with today, just hope we carry on with the adventure!

Eh what? I think you're disagreeing with the wrong person here L10 as I think the Paulinho near Soldado ploy was pretty good and with a little more luck today it could have worked a treat, my point was perhaps that Paulinho may have dropped off when they were playing from the back and forced them to build centrally. They got a lot of crosses into our box because we pretty much invited them down the wings, particularly the right flank (most regular pass combination was Smalling to Valencia today). Their CM was their weakest area, would have been more preferable to invite them to play through them more where Sandro and Dembele would have eaten them for lunch.

Overall, like you I was happy with todays set up and strategy though, just offering a view (very much in hindsight) of what we may have done differently!

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

i wish we'd play chiriches at left back. he'd probably get raped by valencia too but at least he would relish the getting forward part and would probably pin valencia back a bit.

great player, at this rate, may turn out one of the players of the season, for sure

I'd actually like to see Chiriches in a back 3. I think a 3 of Chiriches, Kaboul, Vertonghen would be pretty damn good. I doubt we'll ever see it, but I think I'd much rather see both of Walker & Rose playing as 'wing-backs', rather than just as attacking full-backs. Both are far too prone to brain farts, to be depended upon in defence, in my opinion.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I think there's a lot wrong with this post and that AVB set us up really well today, I was a little worried when I saw the side that it was going to be more of the same but it was nothing like it and it was what he done with Paulinho that made all the difference. People can dress it up and argue all they like but we basically pushed Paulinho up right alongside Soldado and played most of that game as a 442 which IMHO was exactly the right thing to do.

It was Paulinho's best game for us, Soldado looked so much better with somebody closer to him and Sandro and Dembele looked exactly what they were until Sandro got injured last season.

For me this was our best performance of the season so far and at last we looked like we could create chances! And I don't see how UTD building through their FB's helped them they basically created nothing and i must have missed what Evera and Smalling offered them because I saw nothing, they got 2 fortunate goals from mistakes and that was basically their lot and we fully deserved to win the game, very unlucky IMHO.

Really happy with today, just hope we carry on with the adventure!

Are you responding to the wrong post, Legend10?

EDIT - SS18 already asked the question.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

I may do, but I've never hidden that. I think he's a very good coach and that's exactly what we needed after what we had before. Tactically I think he's hit and miss, and have always called out my misgivings with his in game management - particularly his habit of reaching for Defoe which is predictably inexplicable week in week out.

I didn't see this laziness at all, and can't fathom how you can say Paulinho was lazy from what I saw - I just didn't see this at all, from any of our team. Why was it desperation stuff? D'you think someone who is known for how methodical he is would just chuck Paulinho in and hope for the best?

I love it, he gets habitually slagged off for not being adaptable and willing to bend on his philosophy then when he does, which I would guess was in anticipation of a team that is known for how good they are on the counter, and how vulnerable we've been to teams like City and West Ham who have countered with a purpose, he gets slagged for for compromising on his philosophy. Love it.

What we see now is a million miles away from Redknapp's mayhem.

You fucking edited that part where you said if we had played our normal game, we'd have been killed on the counter, you sneaky fucker. What's our normal game?

 

[Dan Yeats]

Bit of a cock-up by Walker a couple of times, and unfortunately we paid for it.

Nonetheless, he did so much right that he still gets MotM for me.

 

[Vincent30]

This will probably get a lot of bad press on here, but i am completely lost how Paulinho is getting 7's / 8's for todays performance. For me, all he did the whole game was one pass to Soldado, other than that he looks slow, can't tackle, isn't strong, not great in the air and always looks as if he is tiring, his distribution most of the game was woeful. I was really excited about him joining and really hope he is tired from the Summer, but i expected a goal scoring midfielder with some great touches and providing creativity in the final third, he has been a huge disappointment and was the only real player today for me that didn't add anything to the team. I would have much rather had Lamela there, or Dembele with Capoue in the centre with Sandro, or Holtby.

Dembele has been getting so much stick this year i thought he was class today, it's just weird how Paulinho escapes any criticism.

 

[ShelfSide18]

You fucking edited that part where you said if we had played our normal game, we'd have been killed on the counter, you sneaky fucker. What's our normal game?

Did I? Not quite sure how it's sneaky, I don't even remember doing it, must be the guinness...

Our normal game is possession based match control, today AVB deliberately played on the counter, deeper defensive line and quicker more direct play, it nearly fucking worked too (even if at heart I'm a 'possession, if we have the ball they can't score' type at heart myself).