Ratings vs Newcastle

[spurs9]

Tieiemans.

or Winks.

 

[thinktank]

or Winks.

Love winks but realistically it's not going to be him...yet.

 

[SoulDog]

Tieiemans.

yes please

 

[rabbikeane]

I'm not totally convinced that Tielemans is a better player than Winks.
Doubt Tielemans would have much first team experience if he had come through our academy

 

[thinktank]

I'm not totally convinced that Tielemans is a better player than Winks.
Doubt Tielemans would have much first team experience if he had come through our academy

Winks doesn't have the same level of passing ability, rab. imvho

 

[spurs9]

Love winks but realistically it's not going to be him...yet.

I like Tielemans too but I think he will taken just as long to adapt as Winks will need to get enough match experience and personally, I would like to see him given a go, at least in preseason, before we bring someone like Tielemans in. I also think Onomah's future is at CM, which means that on top of Dembele and Dier, we have Winks, Onomah & Bentaleb all 21 or under, so we have to be careful what CM we bring in.

Personally, I think Onomah will replace Dembele long term and we need to loan either him or Winks out next season, I think we need to make decisions on Mason and Bentaleb (assuming Carroll's fate has been decided and will be moving on), with replacements coming if need be.

I know that a lot of people are ripping on Mason at the moment, but he is playing with an injury and having an operation in the summer. Let's not forget that many people would have laughed if you suggested that Dembele and Dier would be our first choice CMs this season.

Dembele
Dier
Mason or Tielemans type
Bentaleb or Dier Back up
Winks or Onomah

 

[thinktank]

I like Tielemans too but I think he will taken just as long to adapt as Winks will need to get enough match experience and personally, I would like to see him given a go, at least in preseason, before we bring someone like Tielemans in. I also think Onomah's future is at CM, which means that on top of Dembele and Dier, we have Winks, Onomah & Bentaleb all 21 or under, so we have to be careful what CM we bring in.

Personally, I think Onomah will replace Dembele long term and we need to loan either him or Winks out next season, I think we need to make decisions on Mason and Bentaleb (assuming Carroll's fate has been decided and will be moving on), with replacements coming if need be.

I know that a lot of people are ripping on Mason at the moment, but he is playing with an injury and having an operation in the summer. Let's not forget that many people would have laughed if you suggested that Dembele and Dier would be our first choice CMs this season.

Dembele
Dier
Mason or Tielemans type
Bentaleb or Dier Back up
Winks or Onomah

Tielemans passing is on another level though, mate. Even on a good day Mason can't touch him in that respect imo (and Mason can be shit hot on a good day).

 

[spurs9]

Tielemans passing is on another level though, mate. Even on a good day Mason can't touch him in that respect imo (and Mason can be shit hot on a good day).

I don't there is much in their passing TBH, though Tielemans has better vision but certainly neither are on another level to Mason's. I think Tielemans has much better positioning and defensive discipline IMO.

 

[thinktank]

I don't there is much in their passing TBH, though Tielemans has better vision but certainly neither are on another level to Mason's. I think Tielemans has much better positioning and defensive discipline IMO.

Gotta disagree, mate.

 

[danielneeds]

I like Tielemans too but I think he will taken just as long to adapt as Winks will need to get enough match experience and personally, I would like to see him given a go, at least in preseason, before we bring someone like Tielemans in. I also think Onomah's future is at CM, which means that on top of Dembele and Dier, we have Winks, Onomah & Bentaleb all 21 or under, so we have to be careful what CM we bring in.

Personally, I think Onomah will replace Dembele long term and we need to loan either him or Winks out next season, I think we need to make decisions on Mason and Bentaleb (assuming Carroll's fate has been decided and will be moving on), with replacements coming if need be.

I know that a lot of people are ripping on Mason at the moment, but he is playing with an injury and having an operation in the summer. Let's not forget that many people would have laughed if you suggested that Dembele and Dier would be our first choice CMs this season.

Dembele
Dier
Mason or Tielemans type
Bentaleb or Dier Back up
Winks or Onomah

Whether he adapts or not is difficult to predict, but I've got to say that the two games we played Anderlecht, they were one of the best teams we played all season, and they game us a very difficult time in both, particularly in midfield where they were one of the few teams to deal well with our pressing.

 

[Flashspur]

You mean to win it, compete in it, be in it?

I mean compete in it. You need the mental discipline and experience that we did not show at Chelsea, vs Southampton and then against Newcastle. I don't think the Arsenal. Manure and Chelsea sides in their hey day would go to Newcastle on the last day vying for second and not be giving a f**k. We just rolled over. It was meek, it was inexcusable. Every game, every point had to be fought for to the very end by those teams. The CL is high stakes and you cant go into games with a weak attitude expecting teams to roll over for you. We need to harden the fuck up and fast if we are going to even make up the numbers in the CL next season.

 

[TwanYid]

I have a dentist appointment in august, I look forward to that more than the Champions League

Yeah- at least then your horrifying, awkward and painful exit will have actually meant something.

 

[Flashspur]

some of the non performers up on Tyneside being outed...

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2016/05/15/heung-min-son-was-utterly-awful-for-tottenham-v-newcastle/

 

[Dougal]

I mean compete in it. You need the mental discipline and experience that we did not show at Chelsea, vs Southampton and then against Newcastle. I don't think the Arsenal. Manure and Chelsea sides in their hey day would go to Newcastle on the last day vying for second and not be giving a f**k. We just rolled over. It was meek, it was inexcusable. Every game, every point had to be fought for to the very end by those teams. The CL is high stakes and you cant go into games with a weak attitude expecting teams to roll over for you. We need to harden the fuck up and fast if we are going to even make up the numbers in the CL next season.

If you want an inexperienced team to have experience you're going to have be patient and roll with the punches. For the youngest side in the Premier League they are doing pretty damn well. Look at the defeats. Away to Man Utd on the opening day of the season they have the better of the game but lose to an own goal. String a few draws together then they're off on a run. Defeats in early cup games are followed by big 4-1 and 5-1 wins in the league. Defeat by Newcastle at home is followed by one of our best Christmas' in years. Defeat by the Champions Leicester and again we thump Sunderland 4-1. It's only when we get right to the end of the season and the Southampton defeat is followed by the freak Newcastle defeat (2500-1, bookies took more bets on 5000-1 Leicester winning the title) that we didn't seem to learn, and in fact got worse. But other factors influenced that too, being well covered on this site right now.

Yet our inexperienced team of 2010 achieved more than Champions League regulars Arsenal have in the seasons since. Our experienced Europa League side get to the same spot every season and jump ship because Champions League qualification is always the ultimate goal (achieved).

And ultimately we now expect a mental attitude from our players that quite frankly is not being displayed by an awful lot of our fans who are waving the white flag, of surrender and not of the proud cockerel, in May. Months before the Champions League group stages begin. Before we do our transfer business. Before our inexperienced players get the biggest experience of their lives in a big international tournament. Before the dust has even settled on our best league finish in over a quarter of a decade.

Excuse the rant but some of our fans lack the experience and mental discipline to deal with this. They just roll over, are meek and frankly it is inexcusable. They can't go into the Champions League with a weak attitude expecting us to get rolled over. They need to harden the fuck up and fast if we are going to get behind the team and support us in what is going to be the biggest season at White Hart Lane in most of our lives.

 

[Flashspur]

If you want an inexperienced team to have experience you're going to have be patient and roll with the punches. For the youngest side in the Premier League they are doing pretty damn well. Look at the defeats. Away to Man Utd on the opening day of the season they have the better of the game but lose to an own goal. String a few draws together then they're off on a run. Defeats in early cup games are followed by big 4-1 and 5-1 wins in the league. Defeat by Newcastle at home is followed by one of our best Christmas' in years. Defeat by the Champions Leicester and again we thump Sunderland 4-1. It's only when we get right to the end of the season and the Southampton defeat is followed by the freak Newcastle defeat (2500-1, bookies took more bets on 5000-1 Leicester winning the title) that we didn't seem to learn, and in fact got worse. But other factors influenced that too, being well covered on this site right now.

Yet our inexperienced team of 2010 achieved more than Champions League regulars Arsenal have in the seasons since. Our experienced Europa League side get to the same spot every season and jump ship because Champions League qualification is always the ultimate goal (achieved).

And ultimately we now expect a mental attitude from our players that quite frankly is not being displayed by an awful lot of our fans who are waving the white flag, of surrender and not of the proud cockerel, in May. Months before the Champions League group stages begin. Before we do our transfer business. Before our inexperienced players get the biggest experience of their lives in a big international tournament. Before the dust has even settled on our best league finish in over a quarter of a decade.

Excuse the rant but some of our fans lack the experience and mental discipline to deal with this. They just roll over, are meek and frankly it is inexcusable. They can't go into the Champions League with a weak attitude expecting us to get rolled over. They need to harden the fuck up and fast if we are going to get behind the team and support us in what is going to be the biggest season at White Hart Lane in most of our lives.

Touche! I'll give you kudos for the passion but not for the logic. The worrying slump was a negative trend that came at the wrong time - the business end of the season.

Its not a question of the fans having to harden the fuck up. Fans expectations are that we will fight in every game and at least be competitive. There was a lot riding on the Newcastle result. Self esteem, pride, bragging rights, second place; instead it was same same - we fell in a heap when it mattered.

Once again, fans don't need to harden the fuck up - we've supported this club through thick and thin over many, many years. In fact with all the disappointments I'd say the average Spurs fan has had to harden up a lot in recent times let alone through the dead end decades of the nineties etc. for older fans.

Its clear we have a squad that lacks depth and needs to improve for Champs league. We are lacking genuine quality once you go past the first eleven. Yes they are an inexperienced young side but you need to be competitive at all times. Inexperience in no excuse for lack of fight. Quality is measured not only in skill but will to win, mentality. There was a distinct lack of that from a number of players who let the occasion get to them. So coming back to the CL. How do you think they are going to cope with that pressure?

 

[Dougal]

Touche! I'll give you kudos for the passion but not for the logic. The worrying slump was a negative trend that came at the wrong time - the business end of the season.

Its not a question of the fans having to harden the fuck up. Fans expectations are that we will fight in every game and at least be competitive. There was a lot riding on the Newcastle result. Self esteem, pride, bragging rights, second place; instead it was same same - we fell in a heap when it mattered.

Once again, fans don't need to harden the fuck up - we've supported this club through thick and thin over many, many years. In fact with all the disappointments I'd say the average Spurs fan has had to harden up a lot in recent times let alone through the dead end decades of the nineties etc. for older fans.

Its clear we have a squad that lacks depth and needs to improve for Champs league. We are lacking genuine quality once you go past the first eleven. Yes they are an inexperienced young side but you need to be competitive at all times. Inexperience in no excuse for lack of fight. Quality is measured not only in skill but will to win, mentality. There was a distinct lack of that from a number of players who let the occasion get to them. So coming back to the CL. How do you think they are going to cope with that pressure?

I think our fans have actually gone soft compared to the 90's. They've been pretty much spoiled in comparison although neither decade has experienced much true glory. But there seems to be far more entitlement and naturally higher expectations due to the reemergence of Spurs as a credible club. That said, every club has a section of toy-throwing whiny bitches no matter what level of success it achieves.

The timing of the slump means little as far as I'm concerned. I've said elsewhere, if we had a slump earlier and finished strongly arriving up in 3rd place in the final days we'd still end up in 3rd place. And we'd still be blaming the same players/staff for the slump whenever it happened when reviewing the season. It just so happens that it was a few days ago and mentally it was after what the players had failed to achieve what they were led to believe was possible, winning the league. Personally, I think it was always a step too far for us and managed my expectations as such. The secondary challenge of finishing above Arsenal clearly wasn't met with the same determination and fight after falling short of their true goal.

But lets cut these players some slack here. They were fighting to a very high level, giving everything. The home defeat to Newcastle was met with boos despite it ending a fantastic run. They picked themselves up and came back playing even better. That's players who came from lower leagues (Alli), the fringes of the team (Dier, Lamela), new signings (Alderweireld). Poch's 2nd season, when he finally cleared out the deadwood that has haunted us for a decade in one form or another, was a transitional season which turned into a title challenging one. And yes, I do think it was transitional. He identified weaknesses, replaced players with superior versions, cleared the deadwood, blooded youngsters. Things we have been crying out for for years! And grown frustrated by when it hasn't happened. The off-loading of Adebayor by paying him off instead of letting him fester at the club was a testament to Poch's Spurs. He would do things his way and succeed or fail on his terms. Putting aside other team's own successes and failures we, as Tottenham, had a bloody good ride of it this year. So now he has another season to address any more outstanding issues and go from there.

So, to the Champions League. We are not going to win it. Without knowing who is in our group I'd like to think we'll get through the group stage, but there's no guarantee on this sunny day in May. After that, who knows? Lot of football to be played between now and then. Lot of deals to be done. Lot of life to be lived.

It was suggested elsewhere that the more level-headed supporters among us don't have passion. Absolute garbage, so the kudos is appreciated

 

[danielneeds]

Touche! I'll give you kudos for the passion but not for the logic. The worrying slump was a negative trend that came at the wrong time - the business end of the season.

Its not a question of the fans having to harden the fuck up. Fans expectations are that we will fight in every game and at least be competitive. There was a lot riding on the Newcastle result. Self esteem, pride, bragging rights, second place; instead it was same same - we fell in a heap when it mattered.

Once again, fans don't need to harden the fuck up - we've supported this club through thick and thin over many, many years. In fact with all the disappointments I'd say the average Spurs fan has had to harden up a lot in recent times let alone through the dead end decades of the nineties etc. for older fans.

Its clear we have a squad that lacks depth and needs to improve for Champs league. We are lacking genuine quality once you go past the first eleven. Yes they are an inexperienced young side but you need to be competitive at all times. Inexperience in no excuse for lack of fight. Quality is measured not only in skill but will to win, mentality. There was a distinct lack of that from a number of players who let the occasion get to them. So coming back to the CL. How do you think they are going to cope with that pressure?

Of course the squad needs to improve, but at the start of this season many if not all would have the first XI needed to improve - and what do you know, Poch achieved this through recruitment - Alderweireld - and through coaching - Dembele, Dier, Lamela.

So let's not pre-judge what will happen this summer with the cheque book and on the training ground.

 

[maltahotspur]

No one deserves a 'Man of the match' rating from me.

 

[jurgen11]

All of them 0
Me and the other 3000 idiots who were made to look like pilloks and have to suffer Geordie Boys pity on a night out despite their woes , 800

 

[The Doc]

All of them 0
Me and the other 3000 idiots who were made to look like pilloks and have to suffer Geordie Boys pity on a night out despite their woes , 800

I thought we were just beginning to get on top of them shortly after the 5th went in. Did you tell them that? Looks like the performance hasn't gone down too well on here, or with Poch for that matter. Bad as it was, loads to look forward to. Team is only going to get better (would be true even in the highly unlikely event no-one comes in over the Summer) on account of age profile. Incidentally, good article in ES last night on our season and prospects for next (compared to other London clubs). Moreover, it's not a given that any of City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool will make big improvements next season. All of them are relying on recruitment to a substantial degree, and three will have new managers. Not a recipe for instant success. Other that that, was appalled by what Ashley has done to St James. Sports Direct logos all over the place. To the left of where we were sitting, (Milburn stand?) it looked like he was deliberately taking the piss with the branding.