Ratings vs Wycombe Wanderers
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NickHSpurs
Well-Known Member
- Mar 14, 2004
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Winks for me, only player who started to come out with any credit, apart from maybe Trippier.
Vorm 5 - thought he dealt with he corner poorly for their first goal and did nothing to really redeem himself
Trippier 7 he looked good all game I think, would have had an assist or two from some of his ctosses had someone decent been in the box for him. Shame he got injured
CCV 4 looked out of his depth today. Poor on the ball, too ponderous before moving it on, poor defensively and struggled against their strikers all game and while he might have been a little unlucky with the penalty he never should have dived in
Wimmer 4 also very poor I think, should have been the senior guy at the back and taken charge considering he's a full international. He looked like he was hiding at times and also out of his depth. I think both he and CCV need one of our senior pairing to hold their hand if they are to play in their first team
Davies 5 another international level player who failed to stand out above league 1 opponents
Winks 7 worked hard and played fairly well
Dier 4 looked terrible today
Sissoko 4 completely disjointed, looks like a great natural athlete with no real football ability. That said he had one moment of great play when he set up Janssen for a chance to win the match
Son 7 Wycombe couldn't handle him, his movement and pace tore them to pieces. He was far too wasteful with his shooting first half but he got himself 2 goals and won the game
Onomah 4 a great chance for him to shine today and he failed miserably to take it. Looked way out of his depth and produced nothing to suggest he will ever make the grade with us
GKN 4 did nothing, is pacey and strong but lacked vision, fines4se and failed to show any quality against a team he should have been able to shine against
Janssen 7 without playing overly well he successfully changed the game in our favour. Won the penalty well and took it successfully, showed some more decent hold up play and ability to create chances. Missed a header from close range he should have buried
Dembele 6 nothing much to say
Dele 7 took his goal well and changed the game with his pressing and energy
Trippier 7 he looked good all game I think, would have had an assist or two from some of his ctosses had someone decent been in the box for him. Shame he got injured
CCV 4 looked out of his depth today. Poor on the ball, too ponderous before moving it on, poor defensively and struggled against their strikers all game and while he might have been a little unlucky with the penalty he never should have dived in
Wimmer 4 also very poor I think, should have been the senior guy at the back and taken charge considering he's a full international. He looked like he was hiding at times and also out of his depth. I think both he and CCV need one of our senior pairing to hold their hand if they are to play in their first team
Davies 5 another international level player who failed to stand out above league 1 opponents
Winks 7 worked hard and played fairly well
Dier 4 looked terrible today
Sissoko 4 completely disjointed, looks like a great natural athlete with no real football ability. That said he had one moment of great play when he set up Janssen for a chance to win the match
Son 7 Wycombe couldn't handle him, his movement and pace tore them to pieces. He was far too wasteful with his shooting first half but he got himself 2 goals and won the game
Onomah 4 a great chance for him to shine today and he failed miserably to take it. Looked way out of his depth and produced nothing to suggest he will ever make the grade with us
GKN 4 did nothing, is pacey and strong but lacked vision, fines4se and failed to show any quality against a team he should have been able to shine against
Janssen 7 without playing overly well he successfully changed the game in our favour. Won the penalty well and took it successfully, showed some more decent hold up play and ability to create chances. Missed a header from close range he should have buried
Dembele 6 nothing much to say
Dele 7 took his goal well and changed the game with his pressing and energy
Bus-Conductor
SC Supporter
- Oct 19, 2004
- 39,837
- 50,713
Some of the apoplexy in the match thread was hilarious. What do we expect, the FA Cup is at the bottom of our list of priorities. It takes more effort, but for the same reward as the League Cup. It certainly isn't as vital as conditioning ourselves to play against European opposition, be that in the Europa or CL, but all three of these cups cede importance to the Premier League.
If Poch had played Kane, Eriksen, TA etc in this game and they'd have got injured it would have been a fucking idiotic thing to do. We also have to keep fringe players sharp and develop younger players. It's about the medium and long term as well as the now.
This was just one of those typical cup games. We put out a side of back ups and kids, came up against a plucky lower league team in good form with nothing to lose who had a go. We still dominated the ball, we still tried to play on the front foot, but early on they had a bit of bluster about them and made life a bit tricky and got a couple of breaks, a set piece goal and a very fortunate penalty (albeit as a result of alack of experience from CCV maybe). Then just when we were getting well on top, we go down to 10 men. Honestly, there's more positives to take out of this game than there were last week. A ten man, mish mash bunch of young and squadies still managed to have 75% of the ball and come from behind twice to win a game that should have been dead.
The only difference between our performance here and Villa was that Wycombe actually showed some ambition, Villa didn't. We were fucking abject for 60 minutes in that game, but so were Villa.
I think we should have started with Janssen, not Son. That not being the case I think players like Sissoko, Dier and maybe even Son should have gone off before those that did. All three of those were piss fucking poor. And don't go giving me the "Son scored" bollocks, defenders scored both of those, which were off target as were all the other good chances he pissed away. His carelessness on the ball nearly cost us another goal as well.
When you put some of the praise for some of those above mentioned in context of some of the criticism of Onomah it is embarrassing. He's a 19yo. He's playing his first game for what two or three months, his second or third start of the season, in a completely makeshift side, out of position (as ever) and he didn't play any worse than much more experienced and vastly more expensive pro's like Dier, Sissoko, Son, Nkoudou or even Alli or Dembele when they came on. It's fine to critique his performance honestly, call it what it was, a bit fucking meh, but the shit he gets or the anger vented towards a 19yo kid still getting his first kicks is ludicrous. Surely players like Kane, Alli, Dier, Winks etc have taught us all a lesson. What do you reckon Alli's first 10 games were like ? I mean he can bumble around like turtle in a fucking windsock still, for the first 3 months of this season he was fucking attrocious, and that's after about 150 senior games.
I'd be more worried that we paid 30m for a player who has the technique of a fucking fridge FFS. And 22m for Son, who still manages to trip his way round games, fucking up simple things constantly, than I would about a 19yo who's cost us a packet of peanuts not looking like a world beater in his first 5 hours of proper football.
Individual
Vorm - Hard to assess really. Didn't have loads to do except pick the ball out the net. Don't think any were his fault ?
Tripper - OK
CCV - Bit immature to go to ground maybe, but I still think he didn't take the man either, the man lost control of the ball and put his leg into him. I have never been as convinced as some about CCV, but it's early days and I don't think he's generally handled things badly when played. Little stat for you, nobody passed more ball today than CCV, 74 passes, and only Dembele superseded his 91% success rate with his humble 22 passes. Make of it what you will.
Wimmer - meh
Davies - meh
Dier - Poor game. He made Wycombe look like ManC last week at times. Entirely to blame for goal 3.
Winks - Decent game. Saw most outfield ball (i.e. ahead of the defence). As ever, industrious, neat and tidy.
Sissoko - The odd bulldozerly flourish but, as ever, mainly resulting in ultimate disappointment. Poor.
Onomah - Pretty meh, but not the catastrophic event some seem to portray.
Nkoudou - Don't really know why he was yanked at half time and why he was yanked ahead of Sissoko. Didn't do anything orgasmic but was lively and looked more likely to control the ball than Sissoko.
Bumble Min Son - Eratic, careless and wasteful. Eventually the Wycombe defenders felt so sorry for him they decided to kick it in the goal for him.
Janssen - Did OK. Worked hard, won and buried the pen, played a nice little ball for Son for the winner.
Dembele - Meh.
Alli - Was pretty meh. Stuck his goal away coolly, but fuck knows what the keeper was doing, just seemed to step aside and offer up his goal.
If Poch had played Kane, Eriksen, TA etc in this game and they'd have got injured it would have been a fucking idiotic thing to do. We also have to keep fringe players sharp and develop younger players. It's about the medium and long term as well as the now.
This was just one of those typical cup games. We put out a side of back ups and kids, came up against a plucky lower league team in good form with nothing to lose who had a go. We still dominated the ball, we still tried to play on the front foot, but early on they had a bit of bluster about them and made life a bit tricky and got a couple of breaks, a set piece goal and a very fortunate penalty (albeit as a result of alack of experience from CCV maybe). Then just when we were getting well on top, we go down to 10 men. Honestly, there's more positives to take out of this game than there were last week. A ten man, mish mash bunch of young and squadies still managed to have 75% of the ball and come from behind twice to win a game that should have been dead.
The only difference between our performance here and Villa was that Wycombe actually showed some ambition, Villa didn't. We were fucking abject for 60 minutes in that game, but so were Villa.
I think we should have started with Janssen, not Son. That not being the case I think players like Sissoko, Dier and maybe even Son should have gone off before those that did. All three of those were piss fucking poor. And don't go giving me the "Son scored" bollocks, defenders scored both of those, which were off target as were all the other good chances he pissed away. His carelessness on the ball nearly cost us another goal as well.
When you put some of the praise for some of those above mentioned in context of some of the criticism of Onomah it is embarrassing. He's a 19yo. He's playing his first game for what two or three months, his second or third start of the season, in a completely makeshift side, out of position (as ever) and he didn't play any worse than much more experienced and vastly more expensive pro's like Dier, Sissoko, Son, Nkoudou or even Alli or Dembele when they came on. It's fine to critique his performance honestly, call it what it was, a bit fucking meh, but the shit he gets or the anger vented towards a 19yo kid still getting his first kicks is ludicrous. Surely players like Kane, Alli, Dier, Winks etc have taught us all a lesson. What do you reckon Alli's first 10 games were like ? I mean he can bumble around like turtle in a fucking windsock still, for the first 3 months of this season he was fucking attrocious, and that's after about 150 senior games.
I'd be more worried that we paid 30m for a player who has the technique of a fucking fridge FFS. And 22m for Son, who still manages to trip his way round games, fucking up simple things constantly, than I would about a 19yo who's cost us a packet of peanuts not looking like a world beater in his first 5 hours of proper football.
Individual
Vorm - Hard to assess really. Didn't have loads to do except pick the ball out the net. Don't think any were his fault ?
Tripper - OK
CCV - Bit immature to go to ground maybe, but I still think he didn't take the man either, the man lost control of the ball and put his leg into him. I have never been as convinced as some about CCV, but it's early days and I don't think he's generally handled things badly when played. Little stat for you, nobody passed more ball today than CCV, 74 passes, and only Dembele superseded his 91% success rate with his humble 22 passes. Make of it what you will.
Wimmer - meh
Davies - meh
Dier - Poor game. He made Wycombe look like ManC last week at times. Entirely to blame for goal 3.
Winks - Decent game. Saw most outfield ball (i.e. ahead of the defence). As ever, industrious, neat and tidy.
Sissoko - The odd bulldozerly flourish but, as ever, mainly resulting in ultimate disappointment. Poor.
Onomah - Pretty meh, but not the catastrophic event some seem to portray.
Nkoudou - Don't really know why he was yanked at half time and why he was yanked ahead of Sissoko. Didn't do anything orgasmic but was lively and looked more likely to control the ball than Sissoko.
Bumble Min Son - Eratic, careless and wasteful. Eventually the Wycombe defenders felt so sorry for him they decided to kick it in the goal for him.
Janssen - Did OK. Worked hard, won and buried the pen, played a nice little ball for Son for the winner.
Dembele - Meh.
Alli - Was pretty meh. Stuck his goal away coolly, but fuck knows what the keeper was doing, just seemed to step aside and offer up his goal.
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dondo
Well-Known Member
- Jan 4, 2006
- 8,603
- 14,091
Agree with most of that but very harsh on son.
Son was wasteful with a few chances and gave the ball away but he was our main goal threat today and scored 2 goals including the winner even if they were both deflected
LexingtonSpurs
Well-Known Member
- Aug 27, 2013
- 13,456
- 39,042
This is what stuck out to me watching him play today - so it surprised me to see so many comments that he was poor on the ball. I thought it was his saving grace. He did not read the game particularly well, and was beaten by his positioning too often. The penalty was more bad luck than bad play imo.
If you put him next to Alderweireld or Vertonghen, I think the perception would much higher. He is still at that stage where he needs that extra coaching on the pitch. Same thing with Wimmer, really. They struggle with inexperience as a partnership, more than any lack of quality.
dricha1
Well-Known Member
- Jul 26, 2005
- 1,312
- 2,584
Agree with most of this. Not only is it hard to play at your optimum if you've not played for several months, it's even harder to play with 8/9 others who also haven't played for several months.
Don't understand the full team changes for these games, surely the spine of the team should be regulars to help the others but then again, for Poch, this would just have been an exercise to get through using as little of the first team as possible.
Lots of talk on the airwaves about some managers demeaning the Fa Cup, well 4 of the top 6 are in the 5th round draw so it's not like they've thrown games.
The Apprentice
Charles Big Potatoes
- Mar 10, 2005
- 11,147
- 15,647
Son MOTM? Bloody hell. He was absolutely useless for 65 mins then scored a fluke deflection. He then continued to fuck up numerous openings before a nice interchange resulted in the winner.
I can't remember a player like him. He undoubtably makes stuff happen and is effective this year, but in equal spades he is clumsy, careless and infuriating.
Winks was decent and worked hard, Tripp was alright. Sissoko and Nkoudou were hopeless. Davies was pony. CCV was rash. Onomah was anonymous. Dier was trundling.
Got out of jail today. Hope Poch gives it a proper go from now on.
I can't remember a player like him. He undoubtably makes stuff happen and is effective this year, but in equal spades he is clumsy, careless and infuriating.
Winks was decent and worked hard, Tripp was alright. Sissoko and Nkoudou were hopeless. Davies was pony. CCV was rash. Onomah was anonymous. Dier was trundling.
Got out of jail today. Hope Poch gives it a proper go from now on.
TheVoiceofReason
Well-Known Member
- Feb 5, 2005
- 6,332
- 15,721
How many goals has Son scored for us this season? Think it's 11 now. Yes, he is a bit erratic, but this guy also gets shit DONE.
Think how well he was playing the first few games of this season, he looked brilliant. If we can get him playing like that more consistently, we would have an absolute gem here.
He's not perfect, way off actually. but considering the stick he gets, he has directly contributed FAR more than most of the other players in the squad.
He is a strange player.
Think how well he was playing the first few games of this season, he looked brilliant. If we can get him playing like that more consistently, we would have an absolute gem here.
He's not perfect, way off actually. but considering the stick he gets, he has directly contributed FAR more than most of the other players in the squad.
He is a strange player.
Hakkz
Svensk hetsporre
- Jul 6, 2012
- 8,196
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I've always wondered what it is he does on the pitch, feels like he never achieves anything. Compared to Winks for example.
He's an impact player for sure
He does a lot of things very wrong but he is capable of producing goals and making things happen
Not good enough to be a first team regular but a great option for rotating and more so off the bench as an impact sub when we need a goal to change a game
mpickard2087
Patient Zero
- Jun 13, 2008
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Where to start with that...
The first half was quite probably the most horrific I have seen in my 22 years as a fan, given the gulf between the two teams. Defensively all at sea, possession that might show domination stats wise but seemed messy, rushed, and a bit chaotic at times, and then in front of goal the (extremely good) chances that did come our way were badly squandered.
The second half wasn't much better in my opinion, even though we stuck four goals past them!
All three goals were poor to concede. First, yeah, great strike - But a poor headed clearance, no idea what Vorm is doing, and non existent marking. Second Dier is breezed off the ball, Wimmer clumsily bundles it in any direction and wrong foots CCV, the ball goes in behind and then in a panicky situation like a foot race you'd hope that a young defender could keep his head and not do something rash... But it didn't happen.
The third was ridiculous, Dier takes a retarded free kick, the ball is turned over, he's breezed past for the umpteenth time and then in fairness good cross and header... But again, avoidable and really bad defending.
I don't blame Poch for the team selected, bar Janssen instead of Dier it's what I would have gone for, it had half a dozen internationals, big price tags and enough supposed pedigree to get the job done. They wasted an opportunity to further their causes and maybe even damaged their Spurs careers - Poch's post game comments confirming this.
And yet no damage done at the end of the day... We're still in the cup despite how bad we were. 10 men somehow found a way back at the death. A last minute winner is always to be wildly celebrated.... But fucking hell, that was a shitshow today!
Vorm - Looked a bit hesitant at times. No idea what he is doing for the opening goal.
Trippier - Ok crosses. Meh defensively.
CCV - Found things tough today, especially the physical battle. Rash for the penalty. Central defenders have these games though and need to learn. His distribution was fine though, he got it on the floor and moved it on. Some people seem to be expecting Beckenbauer.
Wimmer - Positionally all over the place. For a big lad seemed uninterested in helping his rookie partner with the aerial stuff. Hauled off again, not a good few weeks.
Davies - Meh in all aspects of the game.
Winks - Busy, and tried to get us playing. Think at times he was slightly rushed and needed a little more composure, but minor quibbles. Definitely our best outfield player.
Dier - I was most disappointed with his performance. To me he didn't seem mentally switched on for this game, many times too slow or just too soft and just going through the motions. The third goal conceded was a brilliant example, awful stuff.
Sissoko - You could count on one hand the number of good things he did in the game. The rest was brutal. Do you laugh or cry?
Onomah - Playing like a kid with no confidence or rhythm. Just doesn't seem to be able to find his role. Crying out for a run of senior level matches in order to learn and build his game.
Nkoudou - Thoroughly unimpressed to tell you the truth. One of those classic keen, pacey, wide players who gives a lot of fans the horn based on what they hope he might actually do, whilst in reality the end product is almost always diddly squat with game awareness and intelligence that varies between sporadic and non-existent. This might sound harsh but on a showing like that you could pick out thousands of players from down the footballing pyramid to do that and saved the £10m or so we paid. You'd get no less from someone like Oduwa languishing in academy purgatory even.
That's all maybe a bit harsh a lot of you will think and yes he's young etc etc etc. But he's got to show more than brief glimpses. Hope he does soon.
Son - The most typically Son like of Son performances. Busy, but mostly erratic with his work. Barbecued a lot of chances, but despite it all pops up with two big moments - even then they were own goals though (he had definitely missed the winner and needed the defenders help). One day we'll see some more consistency over 90 mins...
Subs:
Janssen - Made things happen. Good persistence to win the penalty and then the bollocks to step up and stick it in the back of the net. Assist for the winner. League Two opposition yes, but hopefully a building block for him.
Alli - I think he came on and tried a lot of flicks that were unnecessary and wasteful, yet got a sniff of a chance and did what he does...
Dembele - Ok.
Special mention #1 - The ref. Awful in my opinion. Let Wycombe players get away with niggly stuff like holding on and shirt pulling all game which I do think helped them considerably. Started belatedly booking their players late on, well at that stage it should have been red cards coming out it had gone on so long.
Special mention #2 - TV producer/director. One of my pet hates I mention often, it was a new low today. Seriously who the fuck is in charge of showing the game and why do they think we need to see constant lingering close ups of managers, chairmen, replays etc. when the game is in play. Show the fucking match. The whole buildup to the Alli goal was missed for instance through such nonsense. Really annoys me. Out of all the incompetence on show today, this was far and away the winner.
The first half was quite probably the most horrific I have seen in my 22 years as a fan, given the gulf between the two teams. Defensively all at sea, possession that might show domination stats wise but seemed messy, rushed, and a bit chaotic at times, and then in front of goal the (extremely good) chances that did come our way were badly squandered.
The second half wasn't much better in my opinion, even though we stuck four goals past them!
All three goals were poor to concede. First, yeah, great strike - But a poor headed clearance, no idea what Vorm is doing, and non existent marking. Second Dier is breezed off the ball, Wimmer clumsily bundles it in any direction and wrong foots CCV, the ball goes in behind and then in a panicky situation like a foot race you'd hope that a young defender could keep his head and not do something rash... But it didn't happen.
The third was ridiculous, Dier takes a retarded free kick, the ball is turned over, he's breezed past for the umpteenth time and then in fairness good cross and header... But again, avoidable and really bad defending.
I don't blame Poch for the team selected, bar Janssen instead of Dier it's what I would have gone for, it had half a dozen internationals, big price tags and enough supposed pedigree to get the job done. They wasted an opportunity to further their causes and maybe even damaged their Spurs careers - Poch's post game comments confirming this.
And yet no damage done at the end of the day... We're still in the cup despite how bad we were. 10 men somehow found a way back at the death. A last minute winner is always to be wildly celebrated.... But fucking hell, that was a shitshow today!
Vorm - Looked a bit hesitant at times. No idea what he is doing for the opening goal.
Trippier - Ok crosses. Meh defensively.
CCV - Found things tough today, especially the physical battle. Rash for the penalty. Central defenders have these games though and need to learn. His distribution was fine though, he got it on the floor and moved it on. Some people seem to be expecting Beckenbauer.
Wimmer - Positionally all over the place. For a big lad seemed uninterested in helping his rookie partner with the aerial stuff. Hauled off again, not a good few weeks.
Davies - Meh in all aspects of the game.
Winks - Busy, and tried to get us playing. Think at times he was slightly rushed and needed a little more composure, but minor quibbles. Definitely our best outfield player.
Dier - I was most disappointed with his performance. To me he didn't seem mentally switched on for this game, many times too slow or just too soft and just going through the motions. The third goal conceded was a brilliant example, awful stuff.
Sissoko - You could count on one hand the number of good things he did in the game. The rest was brutal. Do you laugh or cry?
Onomah - Playing like a kid with no confidence or rhythm. Just doesn't seem to be able to find his role. Crying out for a run of senior level matches in order to learn and build his game.
Nkoudou - Thoroughly unimpressed to tell you the truth. One of those classic keen, pacey, wide players who gives a lot of fans the horn based on what they hope he might actually do, whilst in reality the end product is almost always diddly squat with game awareness and intelligence that varies between sporadic and non-existent. This might sound harsh but on a showing like that you could pick out thousands of players from down the footballing pyramid to do that and saved the £10m or so we paid. You'd get no less from someone like Oduwa languishing in academy purgatory even.
That's all maybe a bit harsh a lot of you will think and yes he's young etc etc etc. But he's got to show more than brief glimpses. Hope he does soon.
Son - The most typically Son like of Son performances. Busy, but mostly erratic with his work. Barbecued a lot of chances, but despite it all pops up with two big moments - even then they were own goals though (he had definitely missed the winner and needed the defenders help). One day we'll see some more consistency over 90 mins...
Subs:
Janssen - Made things happen. Good persistence to win the penalty and then the bollocks to step up and stick it in the back of the net. Assist for the winner. League Two opposition yes, but hopefully a building block for him.
Alli - I think he came on and tried a lot of flicks that were unnecessary and wasteful, yet got a sniff of a chance and did what he does...
Dembele - Ok.
Special mention #1 - The ref. Awful in my opinion. Let Wycombe players get away with niggly stuff like holding on and shirt pulling all game which I do think helped them considerably. Started belatedly booking their players late on, well at that stage it should have been red cards coming out it had gone on so long.
Special mention #2 - TV producer/director. One of my pet hates I mention often, it was a new low today. Seriously who the fuck is in charge of showing the game and why do they think we need to see constant lingering close ups of managers, chairmen, replays etc. when the game is in play. Show the fucking match. The whole buildup to the Alli goal was missed for instance through such nonsense. Really annoys me. Out of all the incompetence on show today, this was far and away the winner.
myhartlane
Well-Known Member
- Feb 4, 2004
- 1,356
- 1,071
Yeah, I didn't get that either.
THFCSPURS19
The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
- Jan 6, 2013
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Nkoudou got injured.
Bus-Conductor
SC Supporter
- Oct 19, 2004
- 39,837
- 50,713
Still should have taken off Sissoko.
jonathanhotspur
Loose Cannon
- Jun 28, 2009
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Why was Wimmer withdrawn?
widmerpool
Well-Known Member
- Jun 18, 2012
- 3,378
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Because both he and CCV were disappointing but Wimmer would still have to play on Tuesday? Dier dropping back made sense.
jonathanhotspur
Loose Cannon
- Jun 28, 2009
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I just finished watching the game and I was wondering if he had taken a knock.
Good.........Winks, Tripps.
Not bad......Son*, Janssen, Dele, Dembele, N'Koudou
Not good....Vorm,, Onomah, CCV .Wimmer
Bad............Davies, Dier
Awful..........Sissoko (in a class of his own)
Justice was done but not seen to be done today.
Second eleven down to ten men and snatched it at the death.
*Son in every category today but overall wasn't bad.
Pochettino....Gambled on team selection and subs today and won.Just.
Not bad......Son*, Janssen, Dele, Dembele, N'Koudou
Not good....Vorm,, Onomah, CCV .Wimmer
Bad............Davies, Dier
Awful..........Sissoko (in a class of his own)
Justice was done but not seen to be done today.
Second eleven down to ten men and snatched it at the death.
*Son in every category today but overall wasn't bad.
Pochettino....Gambled on team selection and subs today and won.Just.
