Redknapp and Crouch

[coldasice199]

Hi Guys,

My apologies if this topic has been repeated in other threads, but I tend not to be as active in Spurs chat as I used to be.

My gripe however is with the treatment recently Harry and Crouch are getting.

Firstly with Redknapp, I'm shocked at the mumors about him. I rememeber similar ones with Jol and look where we ended up with that one. We need to be more appreciative. We are 4th in the league (could be 4th, could be 7th, either way, how can we not be happy?) and were having a good FA cup run. We're more bullish then before and we play attractive football. Lest not forget, a lot of people on this board has resigned ourself to relegation last season.

I really hate it that spurs 'fans' have turned on Harry. Is Guus Hiddink, Mourinho and other managers in that class better. Yes. But what are really the odds of landing one of those. And why would they want to come to a club where the fans are so fickle and treat the managers so fickilly.

I think a lot of the Harry hating comes from people who never wanted the appoinment in the first place. I don't like what he's done to Pav, Dos Santos, Taarbat, but we are 4th. Maybe we should just be happy?

As for Crouch, the amount of stick he gets is ridiculous. Everyone knows what they get with Crouch....

Tall, decent in the air, decent footwork and holds the ball up reasonably well. Hes not great, but he tries hard and is very effective due to his size. In particular, he makes Defoe a more dangerous player and gives us a different outlet. I feel so sorry for him. He's a good player that is badly underappreciated. Don't forget that he started with us. Dean Marney is a worse player than Crouch and the fans loved him.

Well, thats my rant over. I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears. I wrote this quickly at work so appologies for my spelling or grammatical errors

 

[gibbs131]

Harrys true assessment is the next 11 games. IMO he only started coaching the real Spurs a month ago when they did their usual white flag routine that let down Jol and Ramos.

It is how they respond to his coaching now they have choked early in the year, is how I will judge him. Basically, can he take us a step up?

A dozen of managers before him have not dealt with Spurs soft underbelly.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Most people's gripe with Crouch and HR is that Crouch starts game after game despite a very poor goal return for a striker when we have others on the bench who barely get a look in.

Also whether it's planned or not but when PC is on the pitch we tend to be more route 1, I don't think most fans would have a problem with this if it was a tactic used in the last 15-20mins of games and we need a goal.

 

[kaz Hirai]

Hi Guys,

My apologies if this topic has been repeated in other threads, but I tend not to be as active in Spurs chat as I used to be.

My gripe however is with the treatment recently Harry and Crouch are getting.

Firstly with Redknapp, I'm shocked at the mumors about him. I rememeber similar ones with Jol and look where we ended up with that one. We need to be more appreciative. We are 4th in the league (could be 4th, could be 7th, either way, how can we not be happy?) and were having a good FA cup run. We're more bullish then before and we play attractive football. Lest not forget, a lot of people on this board has resigned ourself to relegation last season.

I really hate it that spurs 'fans' have turned on Harry. Is Guus Hiddink, Mourinho and other managers in that class better. Yes. But what are really the odds of landing one of those. And why would they want to come to a club where the fans are so fickle and treat the managers so fickilly.

I think a lot of the Harry hating comes from people who never wanted the appoinment in the first place. I don't like what he's done to Pav, Dos Santos, Taarbat, but we are 4th. Maybe we should just be happy?

As for Crouch, the amount of stick he gets is ridiculous. Everyone knows what they get with Crouch....

Tall, decent in the air, decent footwork and holds the ball up reasonably well. Hes not great, but he tries hard and is very effective due to his size. In particular, he makes Defoe a more dangerous player and gives us a different outlet. I feel so sorry for him. He's a good player that is badly underappreciated. Don't forget that he started with us. Dean Marney is a worse player than Crouch and the fans loved him.

Well, thats my rant over. I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears. I wrote this quickly at work so appologies for my spelling or grammatical errors

well i dont want harry out, but ill answer the point of why people people arent happy with a finish of 7th. because the amount of money this team cost, the ability of the players we have, the size of the squad and the size of the club..well 7th place is frankly not good enough.

these pressures exist at many top clubs, and although its easy to argue that spurs arent a top club anymore, again for me it goes back to the players that we have amassed and anything below 6th with this squad is underachieving imo.

im not gonna touch the crouch one, he is what he is

 

[gibbs131]

Most people's gripe with Crouch and HR is that Crouch starts game after game despite a very poor goal return for a striker when we have others on the bench who barely get a look in.

Also whether it's planned or not but when PC is on the pitch we tend to be more route 1, I don't think most fans would have a problem with this if it was a tactic used in the last 15-20mins of games and we need a goal.

I think Crouch is on the pitch more for his overall play rather than his goal getting. He really does help us out defending corners and set pieces, and he is a better than average partner for Defoe who hasn't really clicked with anyone in his whole time with us here.

I also think he is on the brink of scoring a lot of goals for us because he certainly gets in some great positions.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Gibbs I agree he is there for his defending corners and set-pieces which he is generally very good at, but the way most teams are set up at the moment with 5 man nidfields, to have that extra striker up top they need to really contribute in terms of goals imo, otherwise you may as well play another midfielder.

I have to disagree that he is on the brink of scoring a lot of goals, he's not a clinical finisher and never has been, at the moment i'm worried that if JD doesn't score then we're not going to. I know Pav scored yesterday but who knows how much more game time he will get.

 

[Dr Know]

I don't think Crouch deserves the amount of stick he getting but he has been crap but not that much worse than the rest of the team overall. Harry deserves the stick because as I've said in other threads he seems to be lost in his selections and tactics but having said that his down form has only come since he was charged with hiding the tax mans money. It could be a coincidence or it could be Harry has reached his limits, I don't know but either way he is the manager and should still get the support of the fans until Levy thinks otherwise. Now by all means voice your concerns about him because as a fan thats your rights but when the going is good we should also let him know he is doing a good job

 

[adamsky]

How many times did crouch and defoe link up yesterday? I can't remember any. Crouch is a nuisance to play against and a useful sub but will never form a top partnership with any of our strikers. Pav has hardly been brilliant since coming to us but there are at least glimpses of what he could bring to the team if confident. Time to drop Crouch.

 

[Son_Of]

Hi Guys,

My apologies if this topic has been repeated in other threads, but I tend not to be as active in Spurs chat as I used to be.

My gripe however is with the treatment recently Harry and Crouch are getting.

Firstly with Redknapp, I'm shocked at the mumors about him. I rememeber similar ones with Jol and look where we ended up with that one. We need to be more appreciative. We are 4th in the league (could be 4th, could be 7th, either way, how can we not be happy?) and were having a good FA cup run. We're more bullish then before and we play attractive football. Lest not forget, a lot of people on this board has resigned ourself to relegation last season.

I really hate it that spurs 'fans' have turned on Harry. Is Guus Hiddink, Mourinho and other managers in that class better. Yes. But what are really the odds of landing one of those. And why would they want to come to a club where the fans are so fickle and treat the managers so fickilly.

I think a lot of the Harry hating comes from people who never wanted the appoinment in the first place. I don't like what he's done to Pav, Dos Santos, Taarbat, but we are 4th. Maybe we should just be happy?

As for Crouch, the amount of stick he gets is ridiculous. Everyone knows what they get with Crouch....

Tall, decent in the air, decent footwork and holds the ball up reasonably well. Hes not great, but he tries hard and is very effective due to his size. In particular, he makes Defoe a more dangerous player and gives us a different outlet. I feel so sorry for him. He's a good player that is badly underappreciated. Don't forget that he started with us. Dean Marney is a worse player than Crouch and the fans loved him.

Well, thats my rant over. I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears. I wrote this quickly at work so appologies for my spelling or grammatical errors

repped

 

[lilywhitecurtis]

Just because Pav scored a couple off the bench, doesn't mean the Crouch has been shit this season or that he offers nothing. We've conceded far less goals from set pieces this year with 3 metre peter helping out at the back, and his work ethic is brilliant, he links up play well and he's bagged a few goals.

Harry has done a fine job, I think a lot of the Redknapp bashing is coming from those who wanted to give Ramos more time, I think they've just been waiting for their chance to hit out at him. I remember at the Wembley Cup I was sat next to a bloke slating Harry and bigging up Ramos, I started to wonder what is wrong with some people.

One thing that did disappoint me yesterday was Harry's reaction to both the Pav goals, I seemed a little pissed to have a player he obviously has issues with prove him wrong

 

[3Dnata]

My head dropped when I first saw the title of the thread I thought it would be "why does he keep on picking him".
It's a good thread and initial post though, I'm glad that there are people who understand what Peter does. 7 games without a goal is a worry though but with games coming up against big dead ball teams like Bolton & Everton I think he is going to be needed.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Pav and Crouch actually linked up better yesterday than Crouch and Defoe have for a number of games.

Defoe doesn't have good movement for a striker, which means more defenders can nullify Crouch's threat without marking Defoe tightly. When Pav came on, his movement was actually quite a lot better than Defoe's yesterday, which meant the defenders took their focus away from Crouch.

The reason Crouch has looked poor recently is he is being marked out of the game and for want of a better phrase 'double-teamed'.......that's why the news about Lennon is so gutting, and I thought the return of Lennon would also mean the return to form of the big man.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Hi Guys,

My apologies if this topic has been repeated in other threads, but I tend not to be as active in Spurs chat as I used to be.

My gripe however is with the treatment recently Harry and Crouch are getting.

Firstly with Redknapp, I'm shocked at the mumors about him. I rememeber similar ones with Jol and look where we ended up with that one. We need to be more appreciative. We are 4th in the league (could be 4th, could be 7th, either way, how can we not be happy?) and were having a good FA cup run. We're more bullish then before and we play attractive football. Lest not forget, a lot of people on this board has resigned ourself to relegation last season.

I really hate it that spurs 'fans' have turned on Harry. Is Guus Hiddink, Mourinho and other managers in that class better. Yes. But what are really the odds of landing one of those. And why would they want to come to a club where the fans are so fickle and treat the managers so fickilly.

I think a lot of the Harry hating comes from people who never wanted the appoinment in the first place. I don't like what he's done to Pav, Dos Santos, Taarbat, but we are 4th. Maybe we should just be happy?

As for Crouch, the amount of stick he gets is ridiculous. Everyone knows what they get with Crouch....

Tall, decent in the air, decent footwork and holds the ball up reasonably well. Hes not great, but he tries hard and is very effective due to his size. In particular, he makes Defoe a more dangerous player and gives us a different outlet. I feel so sorry for him. He's a good player that is badly underappreciated. Don't forget that he started with us. Dean Marney is a worse player than Crouch and the fans loved him.

Well, thats my rant over. I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears. I wrote this quickly at work so appologies for my spelling or grammatical errors

I agree with the ethos of your post, and I think you are right on most things, but I will offer an alternative opinion to that which I have bolded.

First, I would be happy, delighted in fact, as would we all, with fourth. I'd also be pretty happy with fifth and satisfied with sixth. Seventh, however, and below, would feel like failure to fulfill the promise and potential this season had early on.

Second of all, on your Crouch defence, the things you've mentioned are the things that cause the most gripes. For his size he does not hold the ball up at all well, I'd reckon that Defoe, shorter by thirteen inches, holds the ball up better in fact. He is also a fairly weak header of the ball, a shame because his height provides him with regular opportunity to head the ball well. I can't remember the last time he successfully headed the ball back across goal when that is what the situation begged for. Lastly, his footwork is ok, but only after several touches, which is infuriating because by the time he controls the bloody thing we have lost any opportunity we may have had.

Regarding the 'he makes Defoe a more dangerous player' comment, this is a myth, as laughable as the notion that Lennon has no end product, Bale can't defend and Palacios can't pass. Defoe has scored two of his sixteen goals in the league off the back of Crouch knock downs, against each Manchester sides at White Hart Lane, and one goal off the back of an admittedly clever and brave Crouch touch on a Bale cross away to Birmingham. Defoe scores mainly from crosses, crosses from Lennon, crosses from Bale, crosses from Bentley a couple of times. Defoe also scores the off goal from a through ball and there are a couple of examples of self made efforts as well, but Defoe is ultimately someone who finds space in the box and attacks a cross. His goals generally have little to do with his strike partner, at least not a strike partner who's main use is knocking the ball down.

I agree that neither Harry, nor Crouch, deserve the abuse they get. However, the former does have some question marks over him which should definitely be discussed constructively and intelligently, and the latter is at best doing a mediocre job in a side with ambitions far beyond the mediocre.

 

[There's always next year]

I was thoroughly disappointed when we bought Crouch last summer. For someone who can't run, jump, shoot, head or protect and hold up the ball a £9m price tag is laughable, well so is Crouch if I'm honest.

 

[Luka Lennon]

Hi Guys,

My apologies if this topic has been repeated in other threads, but I tend not to be as active in Spurs chat as I used to be.

My gripe however is with the treatment recently Harry and Crouch are getting.

Firstly with Redknapp, I'm shocked at the mumors about him. I rememeber similar ones with Jol and look where we ended up with that one. We need to be more appreciative. We are 4th in the league (could be 4th, could be 7th, either way, how can we not be happy?) and were having a good FA cup run. We're more bullish then before and we play attractive football. Lest not forget, a lot of people on this board has resigned ourself to relegation last season.

I really hate it that spurs 'fans' have turned on Harry. Is Guus Hiddink, Mourinho and other managers in that class better. Yes. But what are really the odds of landing one of those. And why would they want to come to a club where the fans are so fickle and treat the managers so fickilly.

I think a lot of the Harry hating comes from people who never wanted the appoinment in the first place. I don't like what he's done to Pav, Dos Santos, Taarbat, but we are 4th. Maybe we should just be happy?

As for Crouch, the amount of stick he gets is ridiculous. Everyone knows what they get with Crouch....

Tall, decent in the air, decent footwork and holds the ball up reasonably well. Hes not great, but he tries hard and is very effective due to his size. In particular, he makes Defoe a more dangerous player and gives us a different outlet. I feel so sorry for him. He's a good player that is badly underappreciated. Don't forget that he started with us. Dean Marney is a worse player than Crouch and the fans loved him.

Well, thats my rant over. I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears. I wrote this quickly at work so appologies for my spelling or grammatical errors

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Adam456]

Well on Harry, compared to our aspirations going in to the season, how can we not be happy being in 4th with 11 games to go and a home replay with Bolton from the FA Quarter finals ? I would wonder whether the tax situation has affected things if, the Wolves game aside, I thought we'd played badly but we've been playing well. In fact we're only a few missed chances and bad ref decisions from competing for positions 1-3 and you can't blame 'Arry for that. I don't agree with all of his selections but you're never going to.

Crouch is a different matter. He doesn't deserve any 'stick' because he always gives 100% but there's nothing wrong with discussing his play and for me he's just not good enough and he's keeping a better striker on the bench. We know he has plus points like work rate and defending and sometimes he holds the ball up but his poor points - movement, finishing, speed, heading ability all easily outweigh that. As said so many times by so many people, Crouch should be our plan B with 20 mins left and we should be playing Pav or (when fit and sharp) Gudjohnson or an attacking midfielder in the hole

So on this point I disagree with 'Arry but overall I'm pleased

 

[DC_Boy]

i think Crouch has done ok for us -

harry has been a good/very good manager - i already rate him higher than Jol, but I accept that has to be proven yet - it's more a prediction on my part ATM

6th place and an FA cup final this season will do that particular job for me

 

[Paxtonite]

I think overall people are happy with Redknapp. However it has to be accepted that this Pav/Crouch issue is what is testing his managerial capacity. There can be no justification for having ignored Pav for so long in fairness and for whatever Crouch apparently brings to the team, the managerial selection of this and possibly other players seemed to reek of blind loyalty rather than tactical planning (if you exclude the alarming increased propensity of our team to hoof the ball to Crouch's head).

Before anyone starts harping on about Pav's effort in training, we only have Redknapp's word for it and judging from the players reaction to Pav's brace on sunday, they perhaps feel that he has been harshly treated too (only judging from what i saw).

There is a myth that Crouch holds the ball up well and links play. Watch closely. He will lose posession on most occasions and claim a foul against him. He takes too long to get the ball under control and often doesnt generate the time he needs to do so because of a lack of upper body strength and positioning. Someone said Defoe holds the ball up better and i would agree. Crouch's positioning as a striker is poor. His heading ability given his size is average, his technical ability is far less than that of Pav lets say and his speed is well, not very fast at all.

OK he will give 100%. He may help defend set pieces and he seems like a nice guy. The sad fact is that he is just not good enough in the opinion of many fans not just me, for this team. We sold Bent, who was poor for us i think and got someone seemingly worse imho. No other "top" manager would have bought Crouch from Portsmouth last summer.

Once Redknapp starts using his squad in a manner that would appear fairer to us the fans, then all this rumbling will die down.

 

[WhiteHart4Ever]

Good post, and in general I agree. Have we turned on HR? Tbh, I havnt really noticed. Critique for issues we all care about, like team selection, is clearly different from turning on the manager IMO. I rate Harry, want him to stay with us for many years, but still believe he should stick to the balanced 4-4-2 (not change it around when Lennon's out, for instance) and that he should have played Pav more and Crouch less.

To want Harry out is insane. While I cant be bothered compiling the stats, I cant think of anyone who'd have a better points per game average than he does in the PL era!? We play attractive football, create lots of chances and are way tougher than we used to be. Furthermore we have a very strong squad, he's made a few excellent signings (Bassong, Kranjcar, Palacios) and a couple of players have clearly improved under his guidance (Huddlestone, Defoe, Lennon, Gomes).

As for Crouch, sometimes he wins every aerial challenge, holds the ball up and uses it well, at other times he's desperately ineffective. Giving his lack of mobility I don't see him as a natural partner to JD who for all his effectiveness contributes minimal to the build up and offer few passes but the through-ball to the players around him. Furthermore, while I acknowledge he does a job defensively as well, his total attacking contribution is in my opinion not good enough, and I see him more as an impact sub than a regular starter..

 

[Blockbuster]

Crouch is a great player and people are saying Pav & Defoe would be better etc, lets not forget, Defoe is in the goal-scoring form of his life, this is likely to be his most successful season in terms of goals and its down to Crouch!

He may not assist him but he free's up the space for Defoe to play and takes Defenders attention away from him.
Also Redknapp is a superb manager and has done wonders for this side and I hope he stays til he is 70 odd.