Remember the squad before Levy/ENIC took over....

[leetotty]

Come on people....Freund better than our current midfielders!! No way. Freund had massive footballing ability difficulties, he openly looked determined, he was commited but his passing ability was at best inept, it is embarrassing that a player with such little footballing ability was playing for tottenham. None of the current 11 are worse than the pre levy 11.

I think people are forgetting football is about playing with the ball. Our weakness is not that we are physically a soft touch but we are mentally a soft touch. And I am hoping that post berba/Keane will mean certain players will improve and move forward the team showing a greater togetherness and will to win.

But to do that you need to control the ball and the game. Frend was a major reason why we could not do that then and was one of many reasons why we had such little success back then.

 

[gibbs131]

Plus everyone is missing the BIG picture. That team could compete with our current team.

And back then we had only just got back on solid financial footing.

 

[Chinaspur]

Don't want to be a spoilsport but I don't think this has any point. ALL the Premier League teams have improved hugely in the last 10 years. What would be more interesting would to compare our squad to then those ahead of us (MU, Liverpool etc.) and those in a similar bracket to us (Everton, Villa) at that time and currently. But given the amount of variables and subjection I don't think a conclusion could be arrived at.

 

[hellava_tough]

Plus everyone is missing the BIG picture. That team could compete with our current team.

And back then we had only just got back on solid financial footing.

------------Ferdinand----Rebrov-------------

Etherington--Poyet----Freund-----Anderton

Thatcher----King------Campbell--------Carr

--------------------Sullivan------------------

That team couldn't compete for shit!

When compared to our current 11, it would get dicked. Freund, FFS!!! No team in the EPL has cack like Freund anymore!

Rebrov was a flop, and Poyet, as much as I love the guy, couldn't play central midfield. In fact, I seem to remember that was a regular criticism of Gus; for all his skill and flair, he was a player without a position. He didn't really fit into ANY system!

Anyway, Gibbs, I respect your right to voice an opinion, but you're WAY off with this one.

 

[rich75]

Whether you are joking or not its fun to do a comparison:
Sullivan Gomes
Carr Hutton
Thatcher Bale
King King
Campbell Woodgate
Freund Zokora/ Jenas
Poyet Modric/ Jenas
Anderton Bentley
Etherington GDS
Ferdinand Pavlyuchenko
Rebrov Bent

1-7. Its no contest.

Give it time, somewhere around February half this board will think Gomes/ Santos/Bentley/Modric ( delete as applicable ) are shit and we would have been better off keeping Robbo, signing Beckham and putting Modric down at birth, because it would have been kinder.

 

[RogerTCB]

------------Ferdinand----Rebrov-------------

Etherington--Poyet----Freund-----Anderton

Thatcher----King------Campbell--------Carr

--------------------Sullivan------------------

Every bit as good/bad as our current team.

And cost relatively half of what Levy/DC have shelled out.

Have to disagree. It is not bad but, seriously, you honestly think it is every bit as good as:

---------------Pav?/(Bent)------------------

Dos Santos--------Modric----------Bently

------------------Corluka--------------------

Bale-----------King------Woody--------Hutton

--------------------Gomes------------------

The footballing brainpower of 7/8 of this lot will seriously give any team a run for it's money when they have played together a bit. This will be a very good team. What is more, if you then add the 2nd 11s in each case, you get a far better picture. An up-coming Ethers v. dos Santos? We can swap DS for Lennon or Bale with Gilberto in behind, etc.

 

[joey55]

Plus everyone is missing the BIG picture. That team could compete with our current team.

And back then we had only just got back on solid financial footing.

I actually think the big picture that most are missing is that the Prem in general has improved since them. You could say that player quality inflation has increased dramatically in that time. Therefore we aren't particuarly unique in being able to look at a squad from 2001 and say how much better we are today. There will of course be acceptions such as Arsenal and Newcastle, but in general most clubs will have seen a big improvement also. I'd say our improvements are better than most, but many simply didn't have the margin to improve so much, such as Utd. Most praise and criticism on this site, be it aimed at the board, manager or squad seems to be lacking the crucial element of comparison with our rivals.

 

[Banjo]

Results Matter.

In 99 under Sugar/Graham we won a league cup.

Levy arrived in Feb 01 and in March sacked Graham just before a league cup semi final. All we've won since ENIC/Levy arrived is .... precisely one league cup last year with a bottom half finish in the league. One of the critisisms of Graham was that he did not finish the league with high enough poisition.

Under ENIC we qualified for UEFA twice via league position under Martin Jol, who only had two full seasons at Spurs FFS. This was not deemed good enough by Levy, ENIC and many fans on this and other sites like COYS. So he was sacked and 'Jol's' side has now almost completely been dismantled. In terms of results that was the best team/squad we've had for ages.

Maybe the new outfit will do better. But the truth is in terms of performance Spurs have being going round in circles since ENIC/Levy took over.

I don't want ENIC/Levy out the potential alternatives could be dire. But the Levy is a genius hymn sheet that some people are singing off does not reflect in our degree of success.

If Levy were not related to the owner of the Club, and he were treated with the same patience as Jol was, Levy would have been history - and that's a fact.

 

[General Levy]

Just cast you mind back to the squad we had before ENIC took over.

Ian Walker
Neil Sullivan
Taricco
King (hardly played a game at that point)
Scumball
Perry
Thatcher
Carr
Young
Thelwell
Doherty
Poyet
Etherington
S Davies
S Clemence
Sherwood
Freund
Korsten
Leonhardsen
Piecy
Fenn
Rebrov
Anderton
Armstrong
L Ferdinand
Iverson
McEwen

:rofl:

Only Carr, King and ****bell would make our current squad.

Freund would be needed now

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

[General Levy]

Results Matter.

In 99 under Sugar/Graham we won a league cup.

Levy arrived in Feb 01 and in March sacked Graham just before a league cup semi final. All we've won since ENIC/Levy arrived is .... precisely one league cup last year with a bottom half finish in the league. One of the critisisms of Graham was that he did not finish the league with high enough poisition.

Under ENIC we qualified for UEFA twice via league position under Martin Jol, who only had two full seasons at Spurs FFS. This was not deemed good enough by Levy, ENIC and many fans on this and other sites like COYS. So he was sacked and 'Jol's' side has now almost completely been dismantled. In terms of results that was the best team/squad we've had for ages.

Maybe the new outfit will do better. But the truth is in terms of performance Spurs have being going round in circles since ENIC/Levy took over.

I don't want ENIC/Levy out the potential alternatives could be dire. But the Levy is a genius hymn sheet that some people are singing off does not reflect in our degree of success.

If Levy were not related to the owner of the Club, and he were treated with the same patience as Jol was, Levy would have been history - and that's a fact.

How is he related to Joe Lewis?

 

[Chris12345]

And cost relatively half of what Levy/DC have shelled out.

But lots of aging players with no sell on value... and in a completly different market!

 

[Banjo]

How is he related to Joe Lewis?

Sorry,

I expressed myself badly - did not mean a relation by blood or marriage. I was refering to long term business relationships and longer term family friendships.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2000/dec/21/newsstory.sport3


My point was that as CEO/Chairman Levy, because of his long term relationships, with Lewis has escaped a lot of blame where others (Graham, Hoddle, Pleat, Jol have very quickly been called to book.

 

[Greavesy]

Lol. Okay. I am sure the team I listed could not get one point in three games like our current one.

And I didn't say they were better by the way.

You're right gibbs, you didn't say they were better, and it's a good point about 1 point from 9.

BUT, I think Joey's got the right idea in comparing the progress we've made relative to others ie in the league. Below are our league finishes since '95:

95---7th
96---8th
97---10th
98---14th
99---11th
00---10th (UEFA - via CC win)
01---12th
02---9th
03---10th
04---14th
05---9th
06---5th
07---5th (UEFA - via league)
08---11th (UEFA - via league)
09---?th (UEFA - via CC win)

I'm probably straying a little off the topic of our current squad vs the 2000 one, but my point is that those saying we've made no progress are blatantly wrong. Yes, Levy hasn't catapulted us to the CL, but when you look back at some of the players and manages we've had over that time we're definitely in better shape now.

 

[remember91]

------------Ferdinand----Rebrov-------------

Etherington--Poyet----Freund-----Anderton

Thatcher----King------Campbell--------Carr

--------------------Sullivan------------------

Every bit as good/bad as our current team.

And cost relatively half of what Levy/DC have shelled out.

Lets put this in context. At that point in time, King was a young midfielder on the fringes of the team, Anderton was an injury battered parody of a once fantastic player, and was playing in the centre (our right wing, back then, was Simon Davies, now at Fulham). Carr was mostly injured, and again, past his best. Thatcher never did it for us (If I remember we got Paul Konchensky on loan for half the season as a left back), Rebrov had one ok season, then failed, went to turkey, failed, went to west ham in the championship, failed and is now back in the ukraine, Ferdinand, tried his best but didn't have a hugely succesful time at the lane, Etherington was still a youngster back then still developing into the championship player he is today and Sullivan wasn't great, got replaced by the superior Kasey Keller, whom got replaced by the superior Paul Robinson whom got replaced by the superior Gomes. Other than that (two quality veterans and a defender with arse on his mind), they're were ok.

Our team now would thrash that XI then, go off for a pint and a pie, come back and trash them again.

Again though, to keep this in context, the quality of the league now, is a lot better than it was then. Foreign stars like Robinho, had no interest in going to the Man utds let alone the man city's of the league.

 

[Banjo]

You're right gibbs, you didn't say they were better, and it's a good point about 1 point from 9.

BUT, I think Joey's got the right idea in comparing the progress we've made relative to others ie in the league. Below are our league finishes since '95:

95---7th
96---8th
97---10th
98---14th
99---11th
00---10th (UEFA - via CC win)
01---12th
02---9th
03---10th
04---14th
05---9th
06---5th
07---5th (UEFA - via league)
08---11th (UEFA - via league)
09---?th (UEFA - via CC win)

I'm probably straying a little off the topic of our current squad vs the 2000 one, but my point is that those saying we've made no progress are blatantly wrong. Yes, Levy hasn't catapulted us to the CL, but when you look back at some of the players and manages we've had over that time we're definitely in better shape now.

I never thought I'd disagree with Greavesey there you go. In terms of results we are pretty much where we were in 2000, according to your table. We are in UEFA via a CC win, and last season our place was 11th instead of 10th.

The high point would appear to be UEFA now for three years in row. But the team/squad that have got us three UEFA qualifications on the trot has been pretty much disbanded and the head coach responsible for certainly the first two of those UEFA qualifications was sacked. So in terms of our current team, in its broadest sense including the squad and coaches I fail to see how we are doing anything but going round in cirlcles as far as results are concerned.

Ramos and his new crew may do well - but as yet this is not proven, the jury is out etc:-. I don't want Levy, ENIC or Ramos out!

But lets not confuse hope with reality to date.

:hello:

 

[steve]

Don't want to be a spoilsport but I don't think this has any point. ALL the Premier League teams have improved hugely in the last 10 years. What would be more interesting would to compare our squad to then those ahead of us (MU, Liverpool etc.) and those in a similar bracket to us (Everton, Villa) at that time and currently. But given the amount of variables and subjection I don't think a conclusion could be arrived at.

What he said.....and who's to say that under different stewardship we might have a BETTER squad than we currently have?

 

[Greavesy]

I never thought I'd disagree with Greavesey there you go. In terms of results we are pretty much where we were in 2000, according to your table. We are in UEFA via a CC win, and last season our place was 11th instead of 10th.

The high point would appear to be UEFA now for three years in row. But the team/squad that have got us three UEFA qualifications on the trot has been pretty much disbanded and the head coach responsible for certainly the first two of those UEFA qualifications was sacked. So in terms of our current team, in its broadest sense including the squad and coaches I fail to see how we are doing anything but going round in cirlcles as far as results are concerned.

Ramos and his new crew may do well - but as yet this is not proven, the jury is out etc:-. I don't want Levy, ENIC or Ramos out!

But lets not confuse hope with reality to date.

:hello:

Maybe we're making different points here. If you want to take this season as a snapshot, then you could argue that this year we're no better off than in 2000 in terms of league position last year and winning the CC (which I think is what you were saying). Although the fact we won the CC (by beating Chelsea, a proper team, not Leicester) and finished 11th in the league whilst being involved in the UEFA cup was probably a better feat than what was achieved in 99, I see where you're coming from.

My point was that we've been more successful since Levy took over than we were in the period before that. I don't think you can disagree with that, can you?

It's a fair point about the the team that brought us the high finishes effectively having been disbanded, but I think we've improved in most areas since then. Like you say, time will tell whether this lot are successful, but I'm definitely glad I'll be watching Juande's team rather than Graham's, no matter what the results are.

:hello:

 

[Banjo]

My point was that we've been more successful since Levy took over than we were in the period before that. I don't think you can disagree with that, can you?

It's a fair point about the the team that brought us the high finishes effectively having been disbanded, but I think we've improved in most areas since then. Like you say, time will tell whether this lot are successful, but I'm definitely glad I'll be watching Juande's team rather than Graham's, no matter what the results are.
:hello:

If you mean by comparison with the previous 7 or 8 years, we have done better. One CC and UEFA place compared with one CC and three UEFA places - well obviously the latter is better. But the 'outfit' that made those two UEFA place league qualified differnce has been pretty much been sacked and sold by ENIC/Levy.

So in terms of our current outfit ....? It is not clear we have progressed. The future is an unknown country?

 

[southgatespur40]

levy and enic have changed the fortunes of this club and those calling for levy to go are completely bonkers as far as i am concerned.

 

[VegasII]

" a defender with arse on his mind"

Funny stuff.