Rugby - Aviva Premiership

[talkshowhost86]

Having just sung the praises of club rugby against the depravity of football in general, I thought I'd see if anyone actually watches the club game at the moment.

I'm a relatively new convert to club rugby and am still in a position of little to no knowledge compared to football, but as a spectator sport I think I now enjoy going to the rugby more than football.

I adopted Harlequins as my team (as they were the most local team at the time) back in 2008, just in time to see them disgrace the game with 'bloodgate' (another good example of rugby dealing with problems a lot better than football does), and have been to three or four games a season for the last few years, culminating in the amazing win over Leicester last year.

This season seems the most open for a while with everyone beating everyone, and I think Quins will struggle to recapture the title even though they are currently top.

So any other fans? Any at all? No? Pah!

 

[mattyspurs]

Having just sung the praises of club rugby against the depravity of football in general, I thought I'd see if anyone actually watches the club game at the moment.

I'm a relatively new convert to club rugby and am still in a position of little to no knowledge compared to football, but as a spectator sport I think I now enjoy going to the rugby more than football.

I adopted Harlequins as my team (as they were the most local team at the time) back in 2008, just in time to see them disgrace the game with 'bloodgate' (another good example of rugby dealing with problems a lot better than football does), and have been to three or four games a season for the last few years, culminating in the amazing win over Leicester last year.

This season seems the most open for a while with everyone beating everyone, and I think Quins will struggle to recapture the title even though they are currently top.

So any other fans? Any at all? No? Pah!

I like it. Not to the same extent as football, and I saw your other post and agree with it all.

Football is going down the swanny, but I could never leave it, and I know that you won't either, you're just frustrated mate, we all get that way about it.

Anyway, back on your subject, Northampton Saints is my team. The Cobblers are my second team in football, so I decided that the rugby team would be the one that I "Supported"

 

[talkshowhost86]

I like it. Not to the same extent as football, and I saw your other post and agree with it all.

Football is going down the swanny, but I could never leave it, and I know that you won't either, you're just frustrated mate, we all get that way about it.

Anyway, back on your subject, Northampton Saints is my team. The Cobblers are my second team in football, so I decided that the rugby team would be the one that I "Supported"

Yep I suspect that I'll never be able to completely ignore football, and obviously I've been a Spurs fan since the day I was born and a Quins fan since 2008 so the comparison isn't there yet. But I've stopped going to Spurs this year and I don't really miss it, whereas I really look forward to my trips to see Quins.

Northampton were looking pretty solid this season but they got duffed up by Sarries (the rugby equivalent of a succssful Stoke) in the same way that we did a few weeks ago. Looking at the Saints squad though they may not get as decimated as others by the international breaks which could help.

Northampton v Quins final?

 

[mattyspurs]

Yep I suspect that I'll never be able to completely ignore football, and obviously I've been a Spurs fan since the day I was born and a Quins fan since 2008 so the comparison isn't there yet. But I've stopped going to Spurs this year and I don't really miss it, whereas I really look forward to my trips to see Quins.

Northampton were looking pretty solid this season but they got duffed up by Sarries (the rugby equivalent of a succssful Stoke) in the same way that we did a few weeks ago. Looking at the Saints squad though they may not get as decimated as others by the international breaks which could help.

Northampton v Quins final?

We are quite a tidy outfit. Solid in most areas, it's just consistency with Saints, does that ring any bells ;-)

Saints v Quins final would be good mate

I didn't know you'd stopped going this season?? Has Stoof stopped crying yet?

 

[talkshowhost86]

We are quite a tidy outfit. Solid in most areas, it's just consistency with Saints, does that ring any bells ;-)

Saints v Quins final would be good mate

I didn't know you'd stopped going this season?? Has Stoof stopped crying yet?

I doubt it. But we all have to move on

 

[mpickard2087]

Mainly watch a lot of Championship rugby. Bedford is the team closest to me and go to watch them at least five times a season and when I was at uni I went to a lot of Bristol matches. In some ways I prefer it to the Premiership, ok the standard might be lower but a lot of the teams tend to throw the ball about and try and play an expansive game. Usually get some cracking games and tries scored.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Mainly watch a lot of Championship rugby. Bedford is the team closest to me and go to watch them at least five times a season and when I was at uni I went to a lot of Bristol matches. In some ways I prefer it to the Premiership, ok the standard might be lower but a lot of the teams tend to throw the ball about and try and play an expansive game. Usually get some cracking games and tries scored.

In my limited experience the Premiership has been quite expansive in the last few years. Quins are certainly very exciting to watch and there have been some very high scoring games this season.

Sarries appear to be the main exception with their 'England under Martin Johnson' style which is working very well for them at the moment. But if an attackng team really gets at them they are hugely vulnerable so hopefully they'll have to come out of their shell a bit at some point.

And you certainly can't say that the big games aren't exciting. The Premiership final (which I've been to for the last 3 years) has been brilliant recently...a far cry from the dull finals you see in many football competitions.

I'm hoping London Welsh do well this year and follow Exeter and Worcester into establishing themselves in the Premiership. I think the next step in club rugby is establishing a strong second tier (where everyone can actually get promoted) and hopefully the success of Exeter in particular gives some encouragement to the Championship teams.

 

[werty]

I've been watching rugby since 2003 when the world cup was on in Australia. I support Munster but I've only ever been to one game which was earlier in the season. Hoping to go to a few more this year, but it's very hard to get tickets for the big games (Heineken Cup + games against Leinster and Ulster) and most of the league games aren't worth going to because they often play a weakened team to keep players fresh for the Heineken or players are on International duty. All their matches are shown on TV over here anyway so I don't miss much of the action. We're not the force we used to be and are going thorugh a transitional period at the moment. We'll do well to get out of the group in Europe, but we have a good stable of younger players coming through and we'll hopefully get back to where we were 3/4 years ago.

I used to watch the Premiership quite a bit, but haven't watched it much over the last couple of years. I keep a look out for London Irish's results (surprise surprise!) and since Conor O'Shea (who was/is one of the best Rugby pundits over here) took over at Harlequins I've been keeping an eye on them too.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I've been watching rugby since 2003 when the world cup was on in Australia. I support Munster but I've only ever been to one game which was earlier in the season. Hoping to go to a few more this year, but it's very hard to get tickets for the big games (Heineken Cup + games against Leinster and Ulster) and most of the league games aren't worth going to because they often play a weakened team to keep players fresh for the Heineken or players are on International duty. All their matches are shown on TV over here anyway so I don't miss much of the action. We're not the force we used to be and are going thorugh a transitional period at the moment. We'll do well to get out of the group in Europe, but we have a good stable of younger players coming through and we'll hopefully get back to where we were 3/4 years ago.

I used to watch the Premiership quite a bit, but haven't watched it much over the last couple of years. I keep a look out for London Irish's results (surprise surprise!) and since Conor O'Shea (who was/is one of the best Rugby pundits over here) took over at Harlequins I've been keeping an eye on them too.

Presumably the fact that the clubs outside England and France can rest players for league games (as there is no qualification for the Heineken Cup) is one of the reasons there is a threat of a breakaway at the moment. Bit of a shame really because 1) it cheapens a league which would be very competitive if all the teams played strong teams week in week out, and 2) it calls into question the validity of Leinster's domination of the Heineken Cup (although fwiw I think they'd have won it for the last two years either way).

Ulster are looking strong at the moment and with that bonus of being able to rest players I think Ulster and Leinster could be set for another run into the latter stages of the Heineken Cup. Connacht gave Quins a good game a couple of weeks back as well (although Quins were pretty terrible).

 

[mpickard2087]

In my limited experience the Premiership has been quite expansive in the last few years. Quins are certainly very exciting to watch and there have been some very high scoring games this season.

Sarries appear to be the main exception with their 'England under Martin Johnson' style which is working very well for them at the moment. But if an attackng team really gets at them they are hugely vulnerable so hopefully they'll have to come out of their shell a bit at some point.

And you certainly can't say that the big games aren't exciting. The Premiership final (which I've been to for the last 3 years) has been brilliant recently...a far cry from the dull finals you see in many football competitions.

I'm hoping London Welsh do well this year and follow Exeter and Worcester into establishing themselves in the Premiership. I think the next step in club rugby is establishing a strong second tier (where everyone can actually get promoted) and hopefully the success of Exeter in particular gives some encouragement to the Championship teams.

You are right it is getting better slowly, although I'm still not sure the skill level is up where it should be. My view is probably heavily influenced by the fact that the two games I have attended over the last year have been Saracens games...

It would be nice if they could get a competitive second division but in reality the money just isnt there. Take my team Bedford, I love going and the fact that I can literally stand about three metres from the touchline by the corner flag and see the game as if im playing on the wing but for pro standards the ground simply isnt up to scratch for a start. When we were in the Premiership around the turn of the century we nearly went bankrupt and to this day its only local businessmen putting their hand in the pocket every year that keeps it afloat. The likes of Exeter and London Welsh are sizeable clubs with a really good fanbase, most of the others just dont have the financial clout to compete any higher.

 

[werty]

Presumably the fact that the clubs outside England and France can rest players for league games (as there is no qualification for the Heineken Cup) is one of the reasons there is a threat of a breakaway at the moment. Bit of a shame really because 1) it cheapens a league which would be very competitive if all the teams played strong teams week in week out, and 2) it calls into question the validity of Leinster's domination of the Heineken Cup (although fwiw I think they'd have won it for the last two years either way).

Ulster are looking strong at the moment and with that bonus of being able to rest players I think Ulster and Leinster could be set for another run into the latter stages of the Heineken Cup. Connacht gave Quins a good game a couple of weeks back as well (although Quins were pretty terrible).

It is a shame that Pro 12 not taken as serious as it should be, but I do think teams are starting to treat it as an important competition. When I first started watching rugby it was a bit of a joke league, but gradually it's becoming more prestigious. It's still used more to develope players, but there's a few poor teams in it anyway where the second strings of Munster, Leinster and the top Welsh teams are too good for the bad teams first stringers.


It obviously helps that they can rest their players before some of the bigger games, but even then Munster and Leinster tend to finish in the top 3-4 in the league every year anyway so they'd qualify for the Heineken anyway if only the top 6-7 teams from the league qualified like in England. It tends to be the older stars that are rested, not the whole team. You'd still get 7-8 first-teamers playing most games.


They are at a bit of a disadvantage to start the Heineken Cup because the first teamers don't tend to have a lot of games before it starts, mainly because most of the players were on Internationals for Ireland (Ireland/Scotland/Wales pretty much pick their squad from three teams, where as in France and England it's a little more spread out)over the summer and needed an extended break. That's probably why Leinster and Munster were poor in their opening games. It certainly helps them when it comes to the knock-out games though, but then do the English and French teams not prioritise the competition then as well?


I don't see the French and England clubs breaking away either. French clubs don't take the Heineken as serious as before, so I can't see them taking it more serious if they're just playing against English teams. Plus the Heineken Cup is a money maker for the clubs and I don't see a breakaway competition making as much money.


The money the French clubs have is a big advantage over the Pro 12 teams that doesn't get mentioned much. They pretty much get to sign any of the big Southern Hemisphere players that want to play in Europe. They also can sign the best that become available from the rest of Europe. Toulon probably have more English players than French. It's kinda like Chelsea/City (French teams) v Barcelona (Pro 12 teams). Chelsea/City sign whoever they want because they can offer more money than everyone else, whereas Barca rely more on bringing through players from their academy with one or two big name players from other teams.

 

[talkshowhost86]

It is a shame that Pro 12 not taken as serious as it should be, but I do think teams are starting to treat it as an important competition. When I first started watching rugby it was a bit of a joke league, but gradually it's becoming more prestigious. It's still used more to develope players, but there's a few poor teams in it anyway where the second strings of Munster, Leinster and the top Welsh teams are too good for the bad teams first stringers.


It obviously helps that they can rest their players before some of the bigger games, but even then Munster and Leinster tend to finish in the top 3-4 in the league every year anyway so they'd qualify for the Heineken anyway if only the top 6-7 teams from the league qualified like in England. It tends to be the older stars that are rested, not the whole team. You'd still get 7-8 first-teamers playing most games.


They are at a bit of a disadvantage to start the Heineken Cup because the first teamers don't tend to have a lot of games before it starts, mainly because most of the players were on Internationals for Ireland (Ireland/Scotland/Wales pretty much pick their squad from three teams, where as in France and England it's a little more spread out)over the summer and needed an extended break. That's probably why Leinster and Munster were poor in their opening games. It certainly helps them when it comes to the knock-out games though, but then do the English and French teams not prioritise the competition then as well?


I don't see the French and England clubs breaking away either. French clubs don't take the Heineken as serious as before, so I can't see them taking it more serious if they're just playing against English teams. Plus the Heineken Cup is a money maker for the clubs and I don't see a breakaway competition making as much money.


The money the French clubs have is a big advantage over the Pro 12 teams that doesn't get mentioned much. They pretty much get to sign any of the big Southern Hemisphere players that want to play in Europe. They also can sign the best that become available from the rest of Europe. Toulon probably have more English players than French. It's kinda like Chelsea/City (French teams) v Barcelona (Pro 12 teams). Chelsea/City sign whoever they want because they can offer more money than everyone else, whereas Barca rely more on bringing through players from their academy with one or two big name players from other teams.

I don't know what they do in France, but in England I don't think a lot of the clubs can afford to prioritise the Heineken Cup when it gets towards the latter stages because the race for the top 4 in the Premiership is always so close.

I can certainly see why the English and French clubs think the Pro-12 clubs have an advantage when it comes to the Heineken Cup but I agree with you that they won't (and shouldn't) break away.

I just hope the pro-12 becomes more important and starts challenging the top teams both to improve the quality of that league, and give some other teams a bloody chance in the Heineken!

I'm actually in Dublin in the first week of December and considered going to see Leinster. Think I might just see if I can find the game in a pub though.

 

[talkshowhost86]

You are right it is getting better slowly, although I'm still not sure the skill level is up where it should be. My view is probably heavily influenced by the fact that the two games I have attended over the last year have been Saracens games...

It would be nice if they could get a competitive second division but in reality the money just isnt there. Take my team Bedford, I love going and the fact that I can literally stand about three metres from the touchline by the corner flag and see the game as if im playing on the wing but for pro standards the ground simply isnt up to scratch for a start. When we were in the Premiership around the turn of the century we nearly went bankrupt and to this day its only local businessmen putting their hand in the pocket every year that keeps it afloat. The likes of Exeter and London Welsh are sizeable clubs with a really good fanbase, most of the others just dont have the financial clout to compete any higher.

Yeah don't let Sarries cloud your judgment. They are very good at what they do, but what they do is largely pretty turgid to watch.

I think if the Premiership starts to bring in more money, then that might encourage some investment at lower league clubs as there will be more of an incentive to join the big boys. Quins v Sarries has been the highest attended sporting event in the UK the last two years running (I think) and the club game does seem to be slowly growing in popularity so hopefully some of that will start to trickle down.

Mind you with Newcastle, Leeds and Bristol down there already there are some big teams in there.

 

[$hoguN]

I watch it, been a Wasps fan since I was 11.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I watch it, been a Wasps fan since I was 11.

Your lot seem to be improving. We had a hell of a game on the opening day (I was there). Wade looks like a hell of a player.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Thankfully the super Quins made up for Spurs' failings with another win this weekend against Gloucester. Really good game as well and a brilliant performance from Tom Williams (he of the hilarious bloodgate incident). Glad to see them still winning without Care, Monye, Marler and Robshaw.

Another tedious performance from Sarries (fuck loads of penalties and a charge down try) but another win unfortunately.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Reading through this thread it seems that people largely don't care about club rugby, but as the new season has started again I thought I'd try and flog this particular horse one more time.

I was at the double header on Saturday and whilst Sarries looked impressive (albeit against a terrible London Irish team), my Harlequins made a bit of a meal of beating what looked like quite a mediocre Wasps side.

With Leicester and Northampton both winning comfortable on the first day, it looks like a three way chase for the title between them and Sarries, with Quins leading the chasing pack (hopefully).

Lots of points in the opening weekend though, and for the very definition of agony, look at Andy Goode's face when his last minute conversion attempt hit the post at Twickenham on Saturday. Exciting, if not incredibly stressful, stuff.

 

[Kendall]

Same as Mattyspurs. Northampton are my team. Made some great signings after Hartley's madness cost the title last year. The main issue/frustration with following Rugby is that that overall team can be good/strong, but ultimately you need ridiculous squad depth (which Leicester have had) to deal with England call ups.

A couple of years back Northampton were doing really well but once Hartley, Foden and Ashton were called up for England, the performances fell apart.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Same as Mattyspurs. Northampton are my team. Made some great signings after Hartley's madness cost the title last year. The main issue/frustration with following Rugby is that that overall team can be good/strong, but ultimately you need ridiculous squad depth (which Leicester have had) to deal with England call ups.

A couple of years back Northampton were doing really well but once Hartley, Foden and Ashton were called up for England, the performances fell apart.

Same happened with Quins. When we won the Premiership, we were able to rely on quite a settled squad as most of our players hadn't been called up. Last year lots of our key men did get called up and we collapsed around March.

Mind you we still had to be brilliant to win the final, and I think Quins have shown you don't need a load of stars to go and win the whole thing.

Having said that I'm not looking forward to Friday night. My first game at the Stoop as a season ticket holder and I suspect I'll see us getting a bit pummelled by your boys.

 

[Kendall]

Same happened with Quins. When we won the Premiership, we were able to rely on quite a settled squad as most of our players hadn't been called up. Last year lots of our key men did get called up and we collapsed around March.

Mind you we still had to be brilliant to win the final, and I think Quins have shown you don't need a load of stars to go and win the whole thing.

Having said that I'm not looking forward to Friday night. My first game at the Stoop as a season ticket holder and I suspect I'll see us getting a bit pummelled by your boys.

There was a time when Saints' away record was shit but the home record made up for it. Last year was a marked improvement in away showings though, so hopefully that can continue.