Same old Keane and Defoe?

[Bulletspur]

As I said before, stats mean what ever you want it to mean. I see people bringing cricket averages into the argument to defend a football debate. Desperation me thinks.

The litmus test. If you had a choice between only one of Defoe or Keane to start on Saturday, who would you choose? I am sure 99% of fans would make their choice based on their opinion and preference, and fuck all to do with stats!

 

[Dougal]

I'd go with Keane as we'd be in trouble for fielding a banned player

 

[defoe18]

As I said before, stats mean what ever you want it to mean. I see people bringing cricket averages into the argument to defend a football debate. Desperation me thinks.

The litmus test. If you had a choice between only one of Defoe or Keane to start on Saturday, who would you choose? I am sure 99% of fans would make their choice based on their opinion and preference, and fuck all to do with stats!

Which is why we aren't managers, we cant pick players based on opinion or personal perference, stats are they to show what players are cable of, they "dont mean whatever you want them to mean" - they simply prove or disprove by numbers what a player does.

I heard one debate, down the local, about Owen going or not going to the world cup - some were for, some against but at the end of the day the stats proved that based on current form, which is what players are/shud picked on, he isn't good enough.

 

[Hoowl]

As I said before, stats mean what ever you want it to mean. I see people bringing cricket averages into the argument to defend a football debate. Desperation me thinks.

The litmus test. If you had a choice between only one of Defoe or Keane to start on Saturday, who would you choose? I am sure 99% of fans would make their choice based on their opinion and preference, and fuck all to do with stats!

This thread isn't about Defoe being better than Keane or visa versa, it's about questioning whether they have improved since they rejoined. Besides, Harrys success in pairing the two means they're not mutually exclusive options.

As for stats being meaningless, I agree that different people can assign different values to particular statistics, and statistics can be abused by selecting particular sets of results but I don't think they're meaningless. The set which I have shown represents about half a season of data and I consider it to have value.

 

[Bulletspur]

I'd go with Keane as we'd be in trouble for fielding a banned player

I said if, meaning IF he was available Dougal! try again! :clap:

 

[nicdic]

I said if, meaning IF he was available Dougal! try again! :clap:

Dougal's Irish.

 

[Dougal]

Dougal's Irish.

You got something against the Irish nic? Would explain a lot.

 

[nicdic]

I was joking that you'd always find a way around that question, so you could answer Robbie Keane, even though the answer is Jermain Defoe.

 

[Dougal]

I was joking that you'd always find a way around that question, so you could answer Robbie Keane, even though the answer is Jermain Defoe.

In that case, you're English :shrug:

 

[tRiKS]

you can't discount pens or discredit goals scored agsint teams you think are shit. All goal scored by the Great strikers we're supposed to use as a yard stick, score lots of goals against weaker teams than they do against strong teams, that's only common sense.

Perhaps if anyone can be arsed (i can't) you could take the last 2 season of golas scored and set up a point system based on the oppsotion played and if it were home or away match. ...in fact why stop there. Subtract points for them being pens, add points for them being first time shots, or headers, or scored with thier "wrong foot". subtract points for scoring agsint teams with only ten men. Give them bonus marks for gettting the opening goal or the winning goal but subtract points if they knock them in the net when we've already won the game. Add this formular to all the other strikers in the league for a comparison.

Make sure any cup goal scored by a spurs striker in a a year ending in 1 gets a point deducted becasue fate makes it easier.

... blimey. Stats are only stats but they are facts and should be treated with respect and used on merit.

 

[nicdic]

you can't discount pens or discredit goals scored agsint teams you think are shit. All goal scored by the Great strikers we're supposed to use as a yard stick, score lots of goals against weaker teams than they do against strong teams, that's only common sense.

Perhaps if anyone can be arsed (i can't) you could take the last 2 season of golas scored and set up a point system based on the oppsotion played and if it were home or away match. ...in fact why stop there. Subtract points for them being pens, add points for them being first time shots, or headers, or scored with thier "wrong foot". subtract points for scoring agsint teams with only ten men. Give them bonus marks for gettting the opening goal or the winning goal but subtract points if they knock them in the net when we've already won the game. Add this formular to all the other strikers in the league for a comparison.

Make sure any cup goal scored by a spurs striker in a a year ending in 1 gets a point deducted becasue fate makes it easier.

... blimey. Stats are only stats but they are facts and should be treated with respect and used on merit.

:lol:

 

[Son_Of]

thing is it really does make sense to say "if you discount that one game" because one property of great interest is a striker's likelihood of scoring in the next game.

to my mind, if a player has a hattrick and no other goals in 6 games and another player has scored 1,0,1,0,1,0 in his last six games, they both have 3 in 6 but it is reasonable to say the form suggests the latter is more likely to score in the next game

 

[nicdic]

thing is it really does make sense to say "if you discount that one game" because one property of great interest is a striker's likelihood of scoring in the next game.

to my mind, if a player has a hattrick and no other goals in 6 games and another player has scored 1,0,1,0,1,0 in his last six games, they both have 3 in 6 but it is reasonable to say the form suggests the latter is more likely to score in the next game

Well said.

However, I think Hoowl's production of the stats was actually pretty good, he included percentage of games scored in, which when tallied with goal per game ratios should really be a pretty good indicator of a top striker.

 

[3Dnata]

In response to the initial post, where Keane is not the same is his pace.
On 3 occasions last night he was put through and a couple of seasons back would have got his shot in, on all occasions the defender caught up with him, one early in the 2nd half was an outstanding tackle by the defender, sorry I don't know who it was, but I reckon Keane of pre Liverpool would have been clear.