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SC CAN publish fixture list!

Star_of_Davids

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2005
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17218968

Football authorities in England and Scotland have lost a court case over copyright in match fixture lists.

European Court judges in Luxembourg said compiling match fixture lists needed "significant" work and skill, but did not entail the creativity required for copyright protection.

Yahoo, bookmaker Stan James and sports information firm Enetpulse had been accused of breaching EU copyright laws.

The case was brought on behalf of the football leagues by Football Dataco.

Gambling firms

It is the firm responsible for protecting the rights acquired in English and Scottish football league fixtures, and said the trio of firms had breached copyright by failing to pay for the use of the match schedules.

Football Dataco grants licences to third parties allowing them - for a fee - to reproduce the Premier League, the Football League, Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League fixtures.

News and media services, as well as gambling firms, fantasy football operators and other commercial outlets, use the information to produce fixture information for fans and allow gamblers to bet on events.

The case had originated in the English courts, before being sent to the European Court of Justice for clarification of certain points of database law.

High Court

"A football fixture list cannot be protected by copyright when its compilation is dictated by rules or constraints which leave no room for creative freedom," said the European judges.

The case was referred to the European court by the High Court in London, which must now "assess, in the light of the considerations set out by the [Luxembourg] court, whether the football fixture lists concerned are databases which satisfy the conditions of eligibility for copyright protection".

But the European judges added: "However, the court adds that unless the procedures for creating the lists concerned as described by the national court are supplemented by elements reflecting originality in the selection or arrangement of the data contained in those lists, they do not suffice for those lists to be protected by the copyright laid down in the directive."

TV listings

One copyright expert said the European ruling seemed to leave the High Court with little room for manoeuvre now.

"The ECJ has left pretty much no scope for the English court to do anything except say, 'There is no copyright in the fixture list'," said Mark Daniels, an expert in copyright, patents, and trademarks at law firm Browne Jacobson.

And he said that if that were the case, then in future, anyone would be able to use the football fixtures lists, as long as they did not try to imply that they were representing the football leagues.

Mr Daniels also said the case could have a potential future impact on other areas in the sales and licensing of "fixture lists", such as with television listings.

"This has a much wider impact for those people who create data, such as those who create TV schedules," he said.

"There must now be questions about whether any copyright could exist in a TV listing."
 

Col_M

Pointing out the Obvious
Feb 28, 2012
22,786
45,888
Always thought it was a stupid rule so good to see it's been overturned
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,250
17,553
I cant believe anyone tried to claim a copyright. Doesnt that sort of information fall under the heading of "public domain"?
 

Stoof

THERE IS A PIGEON IN MY BANK ACCOUNT
Staff
Jun 5, 2004
32,221
64,290
I cant believe anyone tried to claim a copyright. Doesnt that sort of information fall under the heading of "public domain"?

You can't believe that a company puts time and effort into creating a product and can't charge a fee for people using it?

The 'database rights' are a very odd section of IP though. And for this area, I encourage you to seek counsel from my learned friend, Mr talkshowhost86.
 

Stoof

THERE IS A PIGEON IN MY BANK ACCOUNT
Staff
Jun 5, 2004
32,221
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And technically, we can't publish the fixture list yet.
 

hybridsoldier

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2004
5,892
1,185
So does this mean there is no fixture list anywhere on SC? I never noticed but now you mention it its quite absurd!
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,250
17,553
are we even allowed to talk about the next fixture? someone has consulted a fixture list!
 

camaj

Posting too much
Aug 10, 2004
8,195
883
You can't believe that a company puts time and effort into creating a product and can't charge a fee for people using it?

It's not like they've produced a work of art! The whole thing is utter nonsense and it's simply a way of funnelling extra money for the Premier league.
 

MattyP

Advises to have a beer & sleep with prostitutes
May 14, 2007
14,041
2,980
It's not like they've produced a work of art! The whole thing is utter nonsense and it's simply a way of funnelling extra money for the Premier league.

Which in some small way funnels it's way down to Premier League clubs, Football League clubs and grass roots football.

It may not be much that gets passed on, but I can't see why anyone would object to media, betting and other companies paying money to publish fixtures.
 

Stavrogin

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2004
2,365
1,481
Which in some small way funnels it's way down to Premier League clubs, Football League clubs and grass roots football.

It may not be much that gets passed on, but I can't see why anyone would object to media, betting and other companies paying money to publish fixtures.

Maybe but maybe it's part of the kleptomatic trend to copyright / patent everything - that rarely funnels money in the right direction :cry:
 

Stoof

THERE IS A PIGEON IN MY BANK ACCOUNT
Staff
Jun 5, 2004
32,221
64,290
It's not like they've produced a work of art! The whole thing is utter nonsense and it's simply a way of funnelling extra money for the Premier league.

It's actually not a lot of nonsense at all. A great deal of time and money goes into the production of the list.

No, it's not a bed in a room with some stuff round it - that's art too apparently - but you surely must understand the fundamental principal behind it.

I think the ECJ have cocked this up, actually.
 

Stoof

THERE IS A PIGEON IN MY BANK ACCOUNT
Staff
Jun 5, 2004
32,221
64,290
Maybe but maybe it's part of the kleptomatic trend to copyright / patent everything - that rarely funnels money in the right direction :cry:

Why shouldn't people protect their creations? What else incentivises you to create something?
 

Rob

The Boss
Admin
Jun 8, 2003
28,025
65,145
It's actually not a lot of nonsense at all. A great deal of time and money goes into the production of the list.

I disagree somewhat. A lot of effort goes into organising the premier league fixtures which is different than saying a lot of work goes into the fixture list as an entity in itself.
 

Col_M

Pointing out the Obvious
Feb 28, 2012
22,786
45,888
I disagree somewhat. A lot of effort goes into organising the premier league fixtures which is different than saying a lot of work goes into the fixture list as an entity in itself.

That's quite true. Mind you, reproducing the list can only be a positive as it publicises the PL so I really can't see hy they are so protective over it.
 

ERO

The artist f.k.a Steffen Freund - Mentalist ****
Jun 8, 2003
5,920
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I was gonna say something, but Col_M said it before me. What a cheeky Frode.
 

MattyP

Advises to have a beer & sleep with prostitutes
May 14, 2007
14,041
2,980
That's quite true. Mind you, reproducing the list can only be a positive as it publicises the PL so I really can't see hy they are so protective over it.

You can't reproduce a section of a song without paying the originating artist, even though it publicises the original artists work.

I'm not suggesting in any way that the fixture list takes as much work than writing a song, just that both belong to someone (a person or company) and reproducing for free without permission is the same principle in my opinion.

How much effort goes into taking a photo of a goal? Not a lot, just a click of a camera.

The main focus of that photo, the player, does not own the copyright.

And yet we are not allowed to post Getty images because they could sue SC. Same principle again.
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2007
11,250
17,553
Why shouldn't people protect their creations? What else incentivises you to create something?



who, the EPL? their incentive to create that list is to actually have some games played. and make a lot of money from those games.
 

Kendall

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2007
38,502
11,933
Horseshit rule that was anyway. The fixtures get written down eventually, just one after another on a different day. It was a joke.
 
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