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Serie A harder than the EPL

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
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I listened to an absolutely fascinating interview with Patrice Evra on the 5-Live podcast this week. And managed to find a transcript on Gazzetta World:

http://gazzettaworld.gazzetta.it/news/serie-a/evra-tougher-premier-league/?refresh_ce-cp

It kind of underlines why despite having vastly superior resources EPL teams can still be made to look very ordinary when they come up against European opponents. And his anecdote about Scholes ties in with the piece I did on the blog about Jenas's anecdotes about the Spurs players rejecting Ramos's double training and dietary regimes etc.



Evra: Serie A much tougher than Premier League
The former Manchester United man believes that the Premier League may be better but that the discipline and desire needed to be successful in Italy makes it the tougher division

Former Manchester United defender Patrice Evra believes that it is much harder to be a success in Italy’s Serie A than it is in the Premier League.

The 34-year-old played at Old Trafford for eight years and was a big success with the Red Devils, before leaving last year to take up a new challenge in Turin.

He helped Juventus to the Scudetto, Coppa Italia and Supercoppa Italiana as well as reaching a Champions League final, where they were beaten by Barcelona.

“I really enjoyed my first year and I’m still enjoying myself,” Evra told BBC Radio 5 Live. “I’ve learned a lot about football and how to be an even better professional, even although I was still a massive professional during my time in Manchester.

“The Premier League is like two boxers fighting. I give it to you and then you give it right back to me, but one is less strong and they’ll start to get tired and you’ll win the game.

“In Italy, it is like a chess game. You have to understand every movement before you play with your quality. I really want to learn and until the end of my career, than’s something I want to do every day.

“When I finish playing football, I’ll probably want to have an experience as a coach and I couldn’t go to a better place than Juventus to learn and to help me take that path. I’m so amazed with how we do things.

“We even watch videos of training sessions to see what is or isn’t going well. Before we play in a game, we know the other team so well and I never used to prepare for a game in that way.

“Italian football is so different in that way. For sure, I’ll say that English football is the best because people like to go and see people running everywhere but if you said it was more difficult than Italian football, I’d say no.

“The Premier League has so much adrenaline and passion with the fans but I can’t say it is the most difficult. People only have to come to Italy and see how tough it is for us against teams lower down the table because they are ready. They know my movement, they know my position. It is amazing the way they learn the game and make you prepare before it starts.”

In fact, 18 months or so later, the former Monaco man is still adjusting to just how intense and concentrated the preparation for each individual match is and shared some Juventus trade secrets – including bizarre training routines that he believes would be scoffed at if someone tried to implement them in the Premier League.

“Now before a game, I know exactly what I have to do,” continued the Frenchman. “Before, I was playing with my strength but now, and having more experience helps too, I’m playing with my brain. Everything in Italian football comes down to tactics.

“When you start training, we play a lot of 11 against 0 games. People will maybe laugh when they hear me say that we play on the pitch with nobody against us. But you have to get your movements right and repeat that for maybe 15 minutes, then when the coach thinks we know exactly where to be and pass the ball and everything, then you start training but that’s our warm-up.

“If you tried that in England, people wouldn’t understand. They’d say you are crazy. I remember Scholesy [Paul Scholes] kicking the ball away when Carlos [Queiroz] tried to do a game like that. Your brain has to be open to that.”

Coming from a somewhat more relaxed atmosphere during his time with Manchester United, Evra confessed that it took him time to come to terms with that was expected of him in Turin and learn his role.

However, he now completely understands what is expected of him and what is expected of any player at Juventus, who he likened to a bead necklace, where you are only as strong as your weakest link.

“At the beginning, I felt like a robot,” he admitted. “They told me, ‘pass the ball to him, then give it to him’ and I was a bit confused. I just wanted to play my football but they told me that Juventus is like a necklace.

“If one piece is broken, the whole thing is broken. It is exactly that way. That’s why every new player, when they come to Juventus, has to learn the way we play first. You can be good, strong, fast but if you don’t understand the system then you won’t play because the big star is the team, it isn’t one player.”
 

Dinghy

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2005
6,326
15,561
That's all well and good but I don't want to see our football go the way of the Italians.

There's a reason that Magnus Carlsen isn't a world renowned superstar.

"We must always consider our supporters, for without them there would be no professional football. It would be better to have more fans watching football the way they like it played, rather than have a few fans watching football the way we would like it played."

Average attendance in Italy - 22 000
Average attendance in EPL - 36 000

Clubs need to beware killing the golden goose...
 

VegasII

Well-Known Member
May 14, 2008
9,750
16,670
I preferred it when Serie A had James Richardson, a small macchiato, and a giant cake.

Not to mention Paul Gazza and some of the other outrageous players.
 

Lufti

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2013
7,994
16,635
Must be why so many Italian teams have won the CL over the last 5 years.. ah :rolleyes:

Apparently they say 0-0 is the perfect result over there, would explain why it's such a snorefest - no offence @Syn_13 . It's football not chess (y)
 

Cornpattbuck

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,932
16,035
Not convinced at all to be honest. It's a league that makes Gervinho look world class, and there's no way he's suddenly a tactical genius.
 

Syn_13

Fly On, Little Wing
Jul 17, 2008
14,852
20,661
Must be why so many Italian teams have won the CL over the last 5 years.. ah :rolleyes:

Apparently they say 0-0 is the perfect result over there, would explain why it's such a snorefest - no offence @Syn_13 . It's football not chess (y)

The league has very little money in it to compete for European glory compared to Spain and England, and unlike Germany, it's not a one horse race all the time. I know Juve have been traditionally dominant, and have been in the last few seasons, but you get spells where other teams like AC, Inter, Roma etc. get a go on top.

To be honest with you, I think people are too quick to dismiss Italian football. The '0-0 is a perfect result' thing is bollocks. I follow the league every week and you don't often get no-score draws. Take a look at last season's goals scored across the big 4 leagues in Europe:

UK - 975 goals over 380 games - 2.57 per match
Spain - 1009 goals over 380 games - 2.66 per match
Germany - 843 goals over 306 games - 2.75 per match
Italy - 1024 goals over 380 games - 2.69 per match

So in terms of goal scored Serie A was the highest, with the 2nd most goals scored per game. It doesn't sound like there were a lot of bore-draws flying around. Some may argue that, because Juve ran away with it, then surely they must've had the lion's share of the goals and simply 'did a Bayern', making up for a significantly large portion of the goals. If you look at who has been contributing to those goals in terms of the top scoring teams in the league:

1st placed Chelsea - 73 goals - 7.48% of all goals scored
2nd placed Man City - 83 goals - 8.5% of all goals scored
3rd placed Arsenal - 71 goals - 7.28% of all goals scored

1st placed Barca - 110 goals - 10.9% of all goals scored
2nd placed Real Madrid - 118 goals - 11.69% of all goals scored
5th placed Sevilla - 71 goals - 7.04% of all goals scored

1st placed Bayern - 80 goals - 9.49% of all goals scored
2nd placed Wolfsburg - 72 goals - 8.54% of all goals scored
4th placed Leverkusen - 62 goals - 7.35% of all goals scred

1st placed Juventus - 72 goals - 7.03% of all goals scored
3rd placed Lazio - 71 goals - 6.93% of all goals scored
5th placed Napoli - 70 goals - 6.84% of all goals scored

Serie A has the fairest distribution of goals with the Premier league not being that bad either. La Liga is just ridiculous with Barca and Real fans having plenty to celebrate when it comes to goals, and if it weren't for Wolfsburg, Bayern would've ran away with it when it.

I do appreciate, however, that goals doesn't always equal entertainment. However, it's a large part of what makes your team successful and it clearly shows that in a couple of leagues the lion's share of the goals seems to go one way (or two with Spain). There is so much more competition in Serie A that people give credit for, and it's not just about playing a game of chess. Yes, it's more about the slow build-up play, but it's not like every game has fuck all action going on.

To be honest, I think Bayern, Barca and Real carry their leagues a whole lot more than the front runners over here and in Italy. Every league has the dominant few teams that really carry things, but not as much as Germany and Spain. I like German football and the way it's played, to be fair, but I tend to just pretend the table exists from 2nd place down. Spain is really over-rated I think. The football isn't that competitive outside of the top 3 or 4, and there is some really sub-standard Championship-level football on display once you get half way down the table. Sure, I'm biased, but I think Italy has a good blend of competitiveness outside of the title race, and a lot of seasons that title race can even involve the top 6 or 7.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
The league has very little money in it to compete for European glory compared to Spain and England, and unlike Germany, it's not a one horse race all the time. I know Juve have been traditionally dominant, and have been in the last few seasons, but you get spells where other teams like AC, Inter, Roma etc. get a go on top.

To be honest with you, I think people are too quick to dismiss Italian football. The '0-0 is a perfect result' thing is bollocks. I follow the league every week and you don't often get no-score draws. Take a look at last season's goals scored across the big 4 leagues in Europe:

UK - 975 goals over 380 games - 2.57 per match
Spain - 1009 goals over 380 games - 2.66 per match
Germany - 843 goals over 306 games - 2.75 per match
Italy - 1024 goals over 380 games - 2.69 per match

So in terms of goal scored Serie A was the highest, with the 2nd most goals scored per game. It doesn't sound like there were a lot of bore-draws flying around. Some may argue that, because Juve ran away with it, then surely they must've had the lion's share of the goals and simply 'did a Bayern', making up for a significantly large portion of the goals. If you look at who has been contributing to those goals in terms of the top scoring teams in the league:

1st placed Chelsea - 73 goals - 7.48% of all goals scored
2nd placed Man City - 83 goals - 8.5% of all goals scored
3rd placed Arsenal - 71 goals - 7.28% of all goals scored

1st placed Barca - 110 goals - 10.9% of all goals scored
2nd placed Real Madrid - 118 goals - 11.69% of all goals scored
5th placed Sevilla - 71 goals - 7.04% of all goals scored

1st placed Bayern - 80 goals - 9.49% of all goals scored
2nd placed Wolfsburg - 72 goals - 8.54% of all goals scored
4th placed Leverkusen - 62 goals - 7.35% of all goals scred

1st placed Juventus - 72 goals - 7.03% of all goals scored
3rd placed Lazio - 71 goals - 6.93% of all goals scored
5th placed Napoli - 70 goals - 6.84% of all goals scored

Serie A has the fairest distribution of goals with the Premier league not being that bad either. La Liga is just ridiculous with Barca and Real fans having plenty to celebrate when it comes to goals, and if it weren't for Wolfsburg, Bayern would've ran away with it when it.

I do appreciate, however, that goals doesn't always equal entertainment. However, it's a large part of what makes your team successful and it clearly shows that in a couple of leagues the lion's share of the goals seems to go one way (or two with Spain). There is so much more competition in Serie A that people give credit for, and it's not just about playing a game of chess. Yes, it's more about the slow build-up play, but it's not like every game has fuck all action going on.

To be honest, I think Bayern, Barca and Real carry their leagues a whole lot more than the front runners over here and in Italy. Every league has the dominant few teams that really carry things, but not as much as Germany and Spain. I like German football and the way it's played, to be fair, but I tend to just pretend the table exists from 2nd place down. Spain is really over-rated I think. The football isn't that competitive outside of the top 3 or 4, and there is some really sub-standard Championship-level football on display once you get half way down the table. Sure, I'm biased, but I think Italy has a good blend of competitiveness outside of the title race, and a lot of seasons that title race can even involve the top 6 or 7.


Great post.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
That's all well and good but I don't want to see our football go the way of the Italians.

There's a reason that Magnus Carlsen isn't a world renowned superstar.

"We must always consider our supporters, for without them there would be no professional football. It would be better to have more fans watching football the way they like it played, rather than have a few fans watching football the way we would like it played."

Average attendance in Italy - 22 000
Average attendance in EPL - 36 000

Clubs need to beware killing the golden goose...


Part of that is about disposal income and affluence of the two country's inhabitants.
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,891
130,525
Maybe not, but could explain why they are close taking the EPL's 4th CL place, despite having revenues of nearly a third of the EPL's.
As far as I am aware, English teams have extended their coefficient lead over the Italian teams.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
The Italians have closed the gap significantly in the last few years though.
 

Lufti

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2013
7,994
16,635
The league has very little money in it to compete for European glory compared to Spain and England, and unlike Germany, it's not a one horse race all the time. I know Juve have been traditionally dominant, and have been in the last few seasons, but you get spells where other teams like AC, Inter, Roma etc. get a go on top.

To be honest with you, I think people are too quick to dismiss Italian football. The '0-0 is a perfect result' thing is bollocks. I follow the league every week and you don't often get no-score draws. Take a look at last season's goals scored across the big 4 leagues in Europe:

UK - 975 goals over 380 games - 2.57 per match
Spain - 1009 goals over 380 games - 2.66 per match
Germany - 843 goals over 306 games - 2.75 per match
Italy - 1024 goals over 380 games - 2.69 per match

So in terms of goal scored Serie A was the highest, with the 2nd most goals scored per game. It doesn't sound like there were a lot of bore-draws flying around. Some may argue that, because Juve ran away with it, then surely they must've had the lion's share of the goals and simply 'did a Bayern', making up for a significantly large portion of the goals. If you look at who has been contributing to those goals in terms of the top scoring teams in the league:

1st placed Chelsea - 73 goals - 7.48% of all goals scored
2nd placed Man City - 83 goals - 8.5% of all goals scored
3rd placed Arsenal - 71 goals - 7.28% of all goals scored

1st placed Barca - 110 goals - 10.9% of all goals scored
2nd placed Real Madrid - 118 goals - 11.69% of all goals scored
5th placed Sevilla - 71 goals - 7.04% of all goals scored

1st placed Bayern - 80 goals - 9.49% of all goals scored
2nd placed Wolfsburg - 72 goals - 8.54% of all goals scored
4th placed Leverkusen - 62 goals - 7.35% of all goals scred

1st placed Juventus - 72 goals - 7.03% of all goals scored
3rd placed Lazio - 71 goals - 6.93% of all goals scored
5th placed Napoli - 70 goals - 6.84% of all goals scored

Serie A has the fairest distribution of goals with the Premier league not being that bad either. La Liga is just ridiculous with Barca and Real fans having plenty to celebrate when it comes to goals, and if it weren't for Wolfsburg, Bayern would've ran away with it when it.

I do appreciate, however, that goals doesn't always equal entertainment. However, it's a large part of what makes your team successful and it clearly shows that in a couple of leagues the lion's share of the goals seems to go one way (or two with Spain). There is so much more competition in Serie A that people give credit for, and it's not just about playing a game of chess. Yes, it's more about the slow build-up play, but it's not like every game has fuck all action going on.

To be honest, I think Bayern, Barca and Real carry their leagues a whole lot more than the front runners over here and in Italy. Every league has the dominant few teams that really carry things, but not as much as Germany and Spain. I like German football and the way it's played, to be fair, but I tend to just pretend the table exists from 2nd place down. Spain is really over-rated I think. The football isn't that competitive outside of the top 3 or 4, and there is some really sub-standard Championship-level football on display once you get half way down the table. Sure, I'm biased, but I think Italy has a good blend of competitiveness outside of the title race, and a lot of seasons that title race can even involve the top 6 or 7.

Fair enough. My post was slightly tongue in cheek for what it's worth, but yeah, I am surprised to see the thing about goals scored
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,030
29,612
As far as I am aware, English teams have extended their coefficient lead over the Italian teams.
Have they ? I thought last season it was decreasing ?
Your both right and wrong.

This season England have increased their gap for this year for coefficients affecting the 2016-17 season. However next season we will lose a 4 point lead that we have on italy as we gained 4 points over them in 2012 when Chelski won the CL. So as things stand next season both teams would be level for the coefficients affecting the 2017-2018 season.

So we have to beat them for two seasons(including this current one) to keep our 4 CL spots
 
Last edited:

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
55,162
100,376
I like watching Napoli...if I'm going to watch a Serie A game I'll watch them.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Your both right and wrong.

This season England have increased their gap for this year for coefficients affecting the 2016-17 season. However next season we will lose a 4 point lead that we have on italy as we gained 4 points over them in 2012 when Chelski won the CL. So as things stand next season both teams would be level for the coefficients affecting the 2017-2018 season.

So we have to beat them for two seasons(including this current one) to keep our 4 CL spots

But he's more wrong, right?
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,348
83,639
In the last 10 years we've each had CL winners but we've had 5 runners up compared to the Italians' one.

They can pretend their style of football is better, I prefer to judge teams on their triumphs thanks.
 
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