Serie A harder than the EPL

[dontcallme]

No it isn't. The final is a one match sudden death game, that makes the whole competition a "knock out cup competition". A chain is as strong as it's weakest link.

Knockout competitioin definition - a competition in which only the winners of each stage play in the next stage, until one competitor or team is the final winner:

So having a group stage means it isn't a knock out competition. Completely irrelevant to the point anyway and I'm not going to get the point sidetracked by pathetic semantics.

 

[kcmei]

Would you prefer to watch a boxing game or a game of chess?

 

[Hot Spur]

I can happily quote you a bunch of footballers on the continent claiming Scholes was the best player of his generation. He was widely respected as a great trainer who knew what he was doing.

I doubt he's the only player to ever think playing against no men is stupid and a waste of time.

If Scholes' performances weren't world class I'd understand you bringing him up, but they were.

It's not his performances that's in question, it's his non acceptance (attitude) of something different to what he was used to doing.

 

[dontcallme]

It's not his performances that's in question, it's his non acceptance (attitude) of something different to what he was used to doing.

Maybe that's because he was a world class player with amazing technical and tactical ability. To get to his level I am sure he would know how to train and what it takes to get to that level.

I am not surprised he felt some training sessions were a waste of time.

 

[Hot Spur]

Knockout competitioin definition - a competition in which only the winners of each stage play in the next stage, until one competitor or team is the final winner:

So having a group stage means it isn't a knock out competition. Completely irrelevant to the point anyway and I'm not going to get the point sidetracked by pathetic semantics.

LOL, you claim that the group stage means it isn't a knock out competition, (when from there on it IS a knock out), and you talk about "pathetic semantics"?? ROFL. Regardless of the initial group stage it is a knock out competition, the group stage is simply a qualifier for the knock out competition

 

[dontcallme]

LOL, you claim that the group stage means it isn't a knock out competition, (when from there on it IS a knock out), and you talk about "pathetic semantics"?? ROFL. Regardless of the initial group stage it is a knock out competition, the group stage is simply a qualifier for the knock out competition

OK, I will simplify it for you.

BC argued the Italian league is harder than the EPL because of their extra tactical preparation.

I reasoned that this alone does not make it harder. The quality and success of the teams determines that. I gave our success in the CL compared to Italian teams as one sign that our league was harder.

He wrote this off as the CL is just a knockout competition.

I believe writing off a competition where you get through a group stage then play several of Europe's elite clubs over 2 legs as a knockout competition like it is nothing is a weak argument.

For you to come in later arguing the definition of a knockout competition rather than addressing the point is pathetic semantics.

So roll on the floor laughing all you want, you're being an idiot.

 

[michaelden]

I reasoned that this alone does not make it harder. The quality and success of the teams determines that. I gave our success in the CL compared to Italian teams as one sign that our league was harder.

No, all that proves is that the premier league has a smaller set of dominant teams , getting all the money and investing in the best players so competing in international tournaments at the highest level. It says sweet fuck all about the rest of the league.

Now we know that the positions 12-20 of the EPL are largely on par/ marginally above Championship level*. We have seen teams win less the 8 games at the end of the season. This means that the top tier teams routinely take more points off the weaker teams. We also see that in Serie A there are far more teams capable of competing and beating the top tier teams. Therefore, for the players and the coaches and everyone else, the league is harder as the outcomes are not as predictable.


*Fuck Chelsea, they are the exception not the rule!

 

[dontcallme]

No, all that proves is that the premier league has a smaller set of dominant teams , getting all the money and investing in the best players so competing in international tournaments at the highest level. It says sweet fuck all about the rest of the league.

Now we know that the positions 12-20 of the EPL are largely on par/ marginally above Championship level*. We have seen teams win less the 8 games at the end of the season. This means that the top tier teams routinely take more points off the weaker teams. We also see that in Serie A there are far more teams capable of competing and beating the top tier teams. Therefore, for the players and the coaches and everyone else, the league is harder as the outcomes are not as predictable.


*Fuck Chelsea, they are the exception not the rule!

I didn't say it proved anything. I said it was one sign. They are not the same thing.

Again your example is showing more evenly matched rather than being harder.

I am sure I could an under 11 league that is more evenly matched than the Premier but that doesn't mean the league is harder as the teams are of lower quality.

This is becoming a nauseating argument over semantics so I'm out.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Maybe that's because he was a world class player with amazing technical and tactical ability. To get to his level I am sure he would know how to train and what it takes to get to that level.

I am not surprised he felt some training sessions were a waste of time.

In the program they talk about Zidane saying how his time with Juventus and their coaching methods turned him from a talented player who knew nothing to one with greater tactical understanding and awareness that changed his career.

Maybe if Scholes was more open to learn he'd be remembered in the same kind of bracket as Zidane, but he isn't.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

OK, I will simplify it for you.

BC argued the Italian league is harder than the EPL because of their extra tactical preparation.

I reasoned that this alone does not make it harder. The quality and success of the teams determines that. I gave our success in the CL compared to Italian teams as one sign that our league was harder.

He wrote this off as the CL is just a knockout competition.

I believe writing off a competition where you get through a group stage then play several of Europe's elite clubs over 2 legs as a knockout competition like it is nothing is a weak argument.

For you to come in later arguing the definition of a knockout competition rather than addressing the point is pathetic semantics.

So roll on the floor laughing all you want, you're being an idiot.

Says the person that reduced a valid point about tactical preparation - which wasn't just my point by the way, it was front he mouth of a player who'd played and won trophies with ManU - to "well England won more CL's so it must be bullshit" type argument.

No one is saying degrees of tactical preparation and coaching are the only factors in football, if they were Tony Pullis would win the league every year.

The point was simply that it can be an important factor that can bridge gaps in quality, make good better, better great etc. And is one of the reasons (not the exclusive one though) why the English league is chocked to the brim with foreign players yet about 3 English players play abroad in the other major leagues for top teams and why Scholes, when teamed with other "talented" players of a supposed English golden generation (Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney etc) not only won fuck all, but embarrassed themselves doing it.

 

[Hot Spur]

Maybe that's because he was a world class player with amazing technical and tactical ability. To get to his level I am sure he would know how to train and what it takes to get to that level.

I am not surprised he felt some training sessions were a waste of time.

It doesn't matter how "world class" he was, it's a question of attitude. Nobody knows it all but it's a trait of the English that they think they know it all and, it's that arrogant attitude that has held us back in International football for decades. The Hungarians gave us two resounding football lessons in 1953 but we learned nothing from those lessons. Apart from a "one off" success in 1966 we've failed in every tournament before and since. We even failed to qualify for some tournaments over the years.

 

[Syn_13]

Would you prefer to watch a boxing game or a game of chess?

Read my post on the first page. That comparison is misguided and is generally made by people who don't watch the league yet go on what other people say about it. Yes, it's not as fast paced as the Premier League. The play is more stretched out in terms of width and it takes a little longer to get from one end of the field to the another, but it's not as bad as people think it is. It's one of the most attack-driven leagues around. The emphasis in Italy isn't so much on catenaccio these days.

Anyway, we get plenty of boring games in this league, it's not always end-to-end attacking. Look at the way LvG sets up United. Their game against City was a drab affair, and that was meant to be one of the biggest games in the season. We've been fairly entertaining under Poch but we went through a spell under AvB where it was like watching paint dry. Mourinho's teams are never that exciting either, just rely on the guile of a single player like Hazard to provide the footballing wizardry. Football can be entertaining and boring in equal measures, regardless of the league.

 

[dontcallme]

It doesn't matter how "world class" he was, it's a question of attitude. Nobody knows it all but it's a trait of the English that they think they know it all and, it's that arrogant attitude that has held us back in International football for decades. The Hungarians gave us two resounding football lessons in 1953 but we learned nothing from those lessons. Apart from a "one off" success in 1966 we've failed in every tournament before and since. We even failed to qualify for some tournaments over the years.

All fair enough points about England I just thinking using Scholes as an example of this is ridiculous.