Sherwood: Players telling me I'll be sacked

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
20,402
If anyone actually thinks that we are playing in a coherent system with structure and a tactical plan under Sherwood then I think you need to watch us more carefully when we play.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
11,131
No mention of the cup games eh?
I think a comparison between AVB's and Sherwood's cup results is not going to tell us very much. AVB won 10 consecutive cup games, but they were mainly against very weak opposition. The point at which he was sacked coincided with our Europa League opposition becoming tougher and also more serious opposition in the domestic cups. I don't see any reason to assume that we would have beaten West Ham, Arsenal and Benfica in the cups with AVB still in place.
 

kelloggs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
1,129
Reading this thread merely serves as a reminder that the human race is (slowly), and ultimately will, divide into 2 sub-species (either by natural selection - see Dr Oliver Curry LSE, or by genetic engineering). The degree to which such limited analysis is thrown around in all walks of everyday life, where a quick headline or statistic is wholly absorbed as fact, is truly depressing and frightening.

I appreciate this is a football rather than an academic forum, where our passion for the club is of utmost importance; however can I just implore some of you to stop a moment and just take a breath before committing to your opinions. You all have the information and the potential available to form better conclusions, not just about football, but in life in general. Don't subscribe to the voluntary consciousness modern media and politics conditions you to. Yes I know, not as much fun!

Been a long week, with the aforementioned sentiments playing a leading role. I didn't ever expect to pontificate on such topics here, however this thread just encapsulated something that has been on my mind. Apologies if I have bored, offended or confused anyone (the latter an attempt at mild satire of course).
 
Last edited:

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
1,317
Reading this thread merely serves as a reminder that the human race is (slowly), and ultimately will, divide into 2 sub-species (either by natural selection - see Dr Oliver Curry LSE, or by genetic engineering). The degree to which such limited analysis is thrown around in all walks of everyday life, where a quick headline or statistic is wholly absorbed as fact, is truly depressing and frightening.

I appreciate this is a football rather than an academic forum, where our passion for the club is of utmost importance; however can I just explore some of you to stop a moment and just take a breath before committing to your opinions. You all have the information and the potential available to form better conclusions, not just about football, but in life in general. Don't subscribe to the voluntary consciousness modern media and politics conditions you to. Yes I know, not as much fun!

Been a long week, with the aforementioned sentiments playing a leading role. I didn't ever expect to pontificate on such topics here, however this thread just encapsulated something that has been on my mind. Apologies if I have bored, offended or confused anyone (the latter an attempt at mild satire of course).
I could not agree more- not to substantiate any of the points I have made or views I have expressed, but in general
 

avonspurs

MoPo's lover
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Messages
4,072
Reading this thread merely serves as a reminder that the human race is (slowly), and ultimately will, divide into 2 sub-species (either by natural selection - see Dr Oliver Curry LSE, or by genetic engineering). The degree to which such limited analysis is thrown around in all walks of everyday life, where a quick headline or statistic is wholly absorbed as fact, is truly depressing and frightening.

I appreciate this is a football rather than an academic forum, where our passion for the club is of utmost importance; however can I just implore some of you to stop a moment and just take a breath before committing to your opinions. You all have the information and the potential available to form better conclusions, not just about football, but in life in general. Don't subscribe to the voluntary consciousness modern media and politics conditions you to. Yes I know, not as much fun!

Been a long week, with the aforementioned sentiments playing a leading role. I didn't ever expect to pontificate on such topics here, however this thread just encapsulated something that has been on my mind. Apologies if I have bored, offended or confused anyone (the latter an attempt at mild satire of course).
Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever......are you a Timist or anti-Timist? ;) hehe (jesting, of course)
 

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2004
Messages
6,864
Tim Sherwood: Position untenable. It's obvious this has been coming for at least the last month. He should have been put on gardening leave and moved as far away from the first team as possible to limit the damage he's already done. I'm sure between Steffen and Ramsey we could have coped easily.

It would have stopped this circus dead.
You really think the circus would have stopped? When we have fans who can be whipped by the media into a slathering froth at the slightest provocation?

We are a circus and most of the red noses are in the stands.
 

UbeAstard

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,217
Yep - being told condescendingly to pull my head out of my ass unfortunately got me very riled up indeed. I'm afraid I would have been leaving my studs up had we been on a pitch.

Apologies if I have offended anyone apart from the person to whom that childish insult was addressed
I understand that mate and I didn't like his comment either.
 

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
5,755
Yep - being told condescendingly to pull my head out of my ass unfortunately got me very riled up indeed. I'm afraid I would have been leaving my studs up had we been on a pitch.

Apologies if I have offended anyone apart from the person to whom that childish insult was addressed
That's as childish as saying "this isn't Football Manager".

As for leaving your studs up? You'd certainly do more damage to yourself.
 

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
5,755
I think a comparison between AVB's and Sherwood's cup results is not going to tell us very much. AVB won 10 consecutive cup games, but they were mainly against very weak opposition. The point at which he was sacked coincided with our Europa League opposition becoming tougher and also more serious opposition in the domestic cups. I don't see any reason to assume that we would have beaten West Ham, Arsenal and Benfica in the cups with AVB still in place.
Whilst I generally agree with your opinion I have to disagree on this point. AB didn't chose the level of opposition he was pitted against and could only beat what was in front of him. Removing certain opposition from the sample group is quite selective and leaves the any comparison open to criticism of bias
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Messages
28
I think a comparison between AVB's and Sherwood's cup results is not going to tell us very much. AVB won 10 consecutive cup games, but they were mainly against very weak opposition. The point at which he was sacked coincided with our Europa League opposition becoming tougher and also more serious opposition in the domestic cups. I don't see any reason to assume that we would have beaten West Ham, Arsenal and Benfica in the cups with AVB still in place.
Fair point. However I think it's pretty convenient to forget our cup performances in an analysis of results.

Under Tim, We were also well beaten by Dnipro (lucky we weren't thrashed). Including the two legged Europa games, That's 1 win, 1 draw, and 4 defeats left out of Tims stats, and a whole load of wins and goals left out of AVBs.

Personally I don't rate either of them, but it's easy to skew stats by being selective in the references chosen.

For me the bottom line is Tim showing signs that he's the man to take us forward. Are we playing with continuity. Are the players happy playing under him? Will our best players be willing to stay if he's here?

The answer to those questions is no in my opinion ?
 
Last edited:

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2005
Messages
2,255
Whilst I generally agree with your opinion I have to disagree on this point. AB didn't chose the level of opposition he was pitted against and could only beat what was in front of him. Removing certain opposition from the sample group is quite selective and leaves the any comparison open to criticism of bias
Bias is everywhere. Standardizing the sample to premier league only, so that the same opposition is included on both sides of the comparison would be the way to reduce bias, not increase it.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
11,131
If I had included the cup matches in the original analysis, then I would have had the usual suspects replying that 'it's the league results that count'. You can't please everyone and, in the case of statistics, you generally can't please anyone.

I'm reasonably confident, based on a succession of wins using Sherwood's more chaotic/adventurous approach against Premiership sides containing inferior players, that our superior players would have beaten the teams in our Europa League group under either manager - and that we would have lost to Benfica under either manager, because they're better than we are.

Against West Ham and Arsenal, who knows? It's a cliché that any Premiership team can beat any other on a given day.
 

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
5,755
If I had included the cup matches in the original analysis, then I would have had the usual suspects replying that 'it's the league results that count'. You can't please everyone and, in the case of statistics, you generally can't please anyone.

I'm reasonably confident, based on a succession of wins using Sherwood's more chaotic/adventurous approach against Premiership sides containing inferior players, that our superior players would have beaten the teams in our Europa League group under either manager - and that we would have lost to Benfica under either manager, because they're better than we are.

Against West Ham and Arsenal, who knows? It's a cliché that any Premiership team can beat any other on a given day.
You may be right that Sherwoods more haphazard approach may have garnered victorise against said opposition but when the players are crying out for direction that's got to count for something?

It may be a personal preference but I enjoy watching a Spurs team that had been well drilled and knows exactly how they are supposed to be attacking (whether that be slow possession based or faster counter attacking) rather than one that looks like the players are having to pull out a stroke of personal ingenuity to get the goal. Even harry's team had more direction than what we have seen
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
11,131
It may be a personal preference but I enjoy watching a Spurs team that had been well drilled and knows exactly how they are supposed to be attacking (whether that be slow possession based or faster counter attacking) rather than one that looks like the players are having to pull out a stroke of personal ingenuity to get the goal. Even harry's team had more direction than what we have seen
Harry's team had a great deal of direction. They were well-coordinated and showed great teamwork, especially when Modric and Huddlestone were working wonders in our outnumbered 4-4-2 midfield.

The stupidest thing Redknapp ever said when he was managing Spurs (and that's saying a lot) was his 'run about a bit' joke about Pavlyuchenko, which was based on the language barrier and had sod-all to do with tactics, because so many people took it seriously and applied it to Redknapp's entire approach.

In fact, my personal preference this frustrating season has been to watch Sherwood's team. The majority of the first 26 league and cup matches I found simply infuriating to watch: talented players looking inhibited, hesitant and un-confident, strikers apparently under orders never to enter the penalty box and countless promising attacking positions breaking down at the edge of the penalty area for want of the most basic kind of decisiveness.

I took some pleasure, in the first 5 or so matches, in watching our big, powerful, disciplined midfield simply grind up the opposition and deny them the ball, in our clean sheets - but it soon became evident that there was no fucking way we were going to see any exciting attacking play, nor any goals.

Sherwood granted the strikers permission to enter the box and executed one absolutely bloody obvious change of approach, by bringing in Adebayor and making him a focus for our attacking play. We started crossing the ball when there were men in the box to attack it. We actually scored some goals.

Deleting the dedicated holding midfielder was half-forced upon him, with Capoue injured and Sandro half-fit and struggling for form. I know he dissed the whole concept, but it's not as if his best players included anyone whom he could rely upon to perform that role effectively.

Had he been able to motivate our players and create a happier atmosphere, we might even had coped with that, but the tense mood and the rash of defensive injuries undermined every attempt to establish a solid platform for our attacking play and, even when we got our ostensible first-choice defensive partnership of Vertonghen and Kaboul onto the pitch, they played like disgruntled strangers and utterly failed to mesh. How Sherwood failed to turn two such high-class defenders into a partnership is something that he should think bloody hard about, when he's learning his managerial trade at a lower-division club in a few years.

Despite all the lack of discipline, I still much preferred watching Sherwood's team. At least Eriksen, Adebayor, Kane and a few others got to express themselves.
 
Last edited:

Ionman34

SC Supporter
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
5,291
I'd say we should beat Ajax - our players are just better than them.

I don't even want to imagine a scoreline with FdB's Spurs against Tim's Ajax! Stupid question anyway - Tim would get sacked halfway through the game for playing his demented 4-4-2, instead of Ajax's well-worked 4-3-3.
That answers the question really. We have superior players yet they'd probably hand us our arses on a platter.

Why if the players are better?

The obvious answer is the coach.
 

jolsnogross

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2005
Messages
2,255
It may be a personal preference but I enjoy watching a Spurs team that had been well drilled and knows exactly how they are supposed to be attacking (whether that be slow possession based or faster counter attacking) rather than one that looks like the players are having to pull out a stroke of personal ingenuity to get the goal. Even harry's team had more direction than what we have seen
It has been a really weird season, largely disappointing, and I think there'll be more next year because I don't think, as many on here do, that there's a quick fix. A new manager will come in, but the squad isn't as good as spurs fans think it is, and expectations are sky high. It'll be interesting to see it play out.

But one really positive thing about this season for me, in direct contrast to your preference, is that AVB got moved on because of the dour style of footy. Not because of results, which were perfectly defensible. But the so-called 'structured' boredom we had to endure. It was awful to watch Spurs basically play entire matches with almost no goalmouth action.

That should be of some comfort to a fan base that doesn't want to see their team grinding out the results, like the football team equivalent of Terry Griffiths, always playing safe, hoping for an error by the opponent.

I would assume a new manager would have learned that much at least before our first game. And if so, maybe a quick start to next season will shake off yet another 'transitional' year.
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
16,047
Message to Millsey.

Act you age and not your shoe size.

If you want to WTF every post of mine at least grow some balls and reply.
 
Last edited:
Top