Should Levy go for his part in the Super League... with a heavy heart I say yes.

[Black]

It wouldn't even cross my mind.

 

[$hoguN]

F*** off with this s***. It was an absolute no brainier for Levy to be part of the founding group as if the project took off it would have put us in the best possible position.

Do I like the way he appoints managers or spends our transfer money? Not always. Does he do more than pretty much any chairman to set us up well as club? Absolutely.

 

[Gingernut]

Are you saying trickle down economics is flawed?

Any evidence other than the whole of history to back that up?

Surely this post is at home in the politics echo chamber thread....

 

[Darth Vega]

I think him leaving would be a step too far but I would like to see all of the clubs/executives responsible punished in some way. They didn't manage to pull it off, but it's the intent that matters, and they shouldn't be allowed to get away unpunished. Whether that's fines, points deductions (which would just harm the staff and supporters who had no involvement) or something different, I'm not sure, but I hope some sort of precedent is set.

 

[Amo]

This is just naïve. It's like you've been watching Hollywood films and assumed that's how the real world works.

Levy has no responsibility or accountability beyond that to ENIC, the board and Uncle Joe. He doesn't answer to the fans, however much you might like that to be the case. The fans have no real power here (short of refusing to turn up, which won't happen).

Eh? We all know he doesn't literally answer to fans or rely on their consent. But there are more constraints on all of us than mere legal ones.

And his position isn't untenable just because you think so. What evidence have you got that shows there is no way Levy can remain in charge? What factors are going to force him or ENIC out?

You're talking about principles and forgetting that they're irrelevant in this context.

Definition for "untenable":

untenable

/ʌnˈtɛnəb(ə)l/

adjective

(especially of a position or view) not able to be maintained or defended against attack or objection.

"this argument is clearly untenable"

My use of the word was perfectly valid. Nothing to do with being unable to continue in terms of institutional structure. It's untenable from a constructivist standpoint. He built the conditions that enables, empowered, and then constrained him.

 

[dontcallme]

Surely this post is at home in the politics echo chamber thread....

It was a silly joke, nothing more.

 

[dimiSpur]

In all seriousness though, Levy was faced with Sophie’s choice wasn’t he. Join the ESL and look a ****; or not join it and doom us to financial ruin.

Anyone thinking he (or any other chairman in his position) would ever pick option two is deluding themselves.

Exactly this. Realistically, he had little choice. Once he caught wind of it, he had to go with it. I said at the time that this was a bad idea, however I was relieved we were in and not out, because if it had gone ahead, we'd have been part of the clubs "left behind" in every sense.

So given that Perez was the ringleader and it sounds like United and Liverpool were the national ringleaders, we had little choice.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I think they expected the hate from other clubs but didn't realise their own support would be so against it and in such high numbers. It also appears as though although it had been a long time in the planning it was a rush through at the end, due to Uefa CL plans and then a leak to the press.

This makes sense, can't believe how amateurish it looked in the end. You'd expect a full on media campaign to justify it.

 

[McArchibald]

Even though THFC weren't doing the running on the ESL, Levy's reputation and standing with his peers and the general public will be at an all-time low. And yet he can't be dislodged and I can't see him going of his own accord.
The solution? Create a buffer in the organization and make yourself scarce. Appoint a CEO and a Director of Football and delegate the day to day running and the dealing with other clubs and organizations to these professionals. That would be the best way to prevent the flames engulfing us now from permanently scarring the football club...

 

[onthetwo]

For me, no he shouldn't go. It's a shit show, it'll hopefully die down and be forgotten about. BUT, it's a big BUT, if there was a slim chance of it happening, now's the time the crafty organisers would have got it through (rightly or wrongly) - and Levy got us a £300m a year seat at the table. That shows he cares more about the club (his wallet) more than anything else. He was willing to go to hell and back for it... for the club. Don't question his motives and intent, even if the method was ridiculous.

he got us a seat at a £300m table.....serving the footballing equivalent of reconstituted KFC! So i guess if second-hand fast food is your thing we should be grateful for that!

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Do you know how they brought the 51% ownership in, in Germany? (Genuine question)
It sounds a good idea.

Hey mate, it was established in 1998 I believe, some info here:

"Under German Football League [DFL] rules, football clubs will not be allowed to play in the Bundesliga if commercial investors have more than a 49 percent stake. ... Historically, German teams were not-for-profit organisations run by members' associations, and until 1998 private ownership of any kind was prohibited"

What is the 50+1 rule? Ownership model affecting Bayern Munich, Dortmund & Bundesliga clubs explained | Goal.com

The recent struggles of German football that have played out at the World Cup, Champions League and Europa League have led to renewed calls for a change to the country's 50+1 model.

www.goal.com

.

'German-style' club ownership law or 'golden share' scheme could be used to stop Super League

Boris Johnson has vowed to drop 'legislative bomb' to block the European Super League

inews.co.uk

50+1 rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SUIYHA]

Levy up until about 2016 was the single best chairman in the league that didn't own an oilfield. Hands down, nobody else comes anywhere close. But he has made some really poor decisions over the last five years, and even though I think this was a logical move from his perspective, he has handled the PR of both the ESL situation and the sacking of Mourinho in the week before the cup final without telling the players - very badly.

Just like players and managers, I wonder if a chairman has a "best before" date and if it does make sense for fresh pair of eyes to come in. However, I'd say to everyone be careful what you wish for. This is not like a regular job where Levy can just hand in his notice and then they'll put a job advert up on LinkedIn. The fact is - ENIC owns Tottenham Hotspur, valued as a multi-billion pound business by many, with Joe Lewis and Daniel Levy owning the shares. They can't just "walk away" - either Levy steps away from the management side and ENIC hire someone in a CEO type role, or they sell the club to someone else. You're not going to get Tommy Tottenham, local boy who grew up in Northumberland Park and has been a Park Lane season ticket holder for the last 30 years, being able to buy the club off them, it will be another billionaire or some kind of private equity/investment firm looking to make money.

The grass isn't always greener - there have been some utter clowns in charge of football clubs in this country and whilst ENIC have their faults, there are many that could be a lot worse...

 

[mumfordspur]

Levy up until about 2016 was the single best chairman in the league that didn't own an oilfield. Hands down, nobody else comes anywhere close. But he has made some really poor decisions over the last five years, and even though I think this was a logical move from his perspective, he has handled the PR of both the ESL situation and the sacking of Mourinho in the week before the cup final without telling the players - very badly.

Just like players and managers, I wonder if a chairman has a "best before" date and if it does make sense for fresh pair of eyes to come in. However, I'd say to everyone be careful what you wish for. This is not like a regular job where Levy can just hand in his notice and then they'll put a job advert up on LinkedIn. The fact is - ENIC owns Tottenham Hotspur, valued as a multi-billion pound business by many, with Joe Lewis and Daniel Levy owning the shares. They can't just "walk away" - either Levy steps away from the management side and ENIC hire someone in a CEO type role, or they sell the club to someone else. You're not going to get Tommy Tottenham, local boy who grew up in Northumberland Park and has been a Park Lane season ticket holder for the last 30 years, being able to buy the club off them, it will be another billionaire or some kind of private equity/investment firm looking to make money.

The grass isn't always greener - there have been some utter clowns in charge of football clubs in this country and whilst ENIC have their faults, there are many that could be a lot worse...

Thank you Daniel always nice to hear your take on things

 

[Gareth88]

I’d like a full rundown of the candidates who are ready and waiting to take his place. It’s all very well saying ‘get rid of Levy’ but if fucking Mourinho is being lined up to take his place I’m done.

I’ll give it a go

 

[Trix]

Hey mate, it was established in 1998 I believe, some info here:

"Under German Football League [DFL] rules, football clubs will not be allowed to play in the Bundesliga if commercial investors have more than a 49 percent stake. ... Historically, German teams were not-for-profit organisations run by members' associations, and until 1998 private ownership of any kind was prohibited"

What is the 50+1 rule? Ownership model affecting Bayern Munich, Dortmund & Bundesliga clubs explained | Goal.com

The recent struggles of German football that have played out at the World Cup, Champions League and Europa League have led to renewed calls for a change to the country's 50+1 model.

www.goal.com

.

'German-style' club ownership law or 'golden share' scheme could be used to stop Super League

Boris Johnson has vowed to drop 'legislative bomb' to block the European Super League

inews.co.uk

50+1 rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't see how that could be brought in here considering the way ownership runs currently. It's totally different to how the German league's were at the time.

 

[allatsea]

Silly thread when Levy in effect owns the club so he isn’t going anywhere until he sells up. Plus with the collapse of ESL the club is significantly less attractive.

 

[Amo]

Even though THFC weren't doing the running on the ESL, Levy's reputation and standing with his peers and the general public will be at an all-time low. And yet he can't be dislodged and I can't see him going of his own accord.
The solution? Create a buffer in the organization and make yourself scarce. Appoint a CEO and a Director of Football and delegate the day to day running and the dealing with other clubs and organizations to these professionals. That would be the best way to prevent the flames engulfing us now from permanently scarring the football club...

Yup. He will still part own the club so there might come a point where he feels his investment is best served by handing over the reigns to someone else.

Can't imagine what this has done to the prospects of a sale or the value of such sale. If he has based the club's financial future on the Super League then that's a serious and costly error.

 

[Lighty64]

At the end of the day mate football is the core of the business they need to invest in building a proper football team that can finish in high places which will provide more income.
Instead we will now see even more poncing around dragging their heels for late bargains whilst taking an age to shift our deadwood.

I agree but anyone not thinking that over the 11 year period it took to get the stadium up and running wouldn’t affect buying players at inflated fees just because we were 1, in the PL and 2, being involved in Europe especially the CL meant paying over the top, are not as savvy as they think.

getting rid of the deadwood is also a problem for top 6 teams. Teams below that only go out on a limb to buy them if they 1, not overly high salaries (look at Arsenal they either leave on loan or for free), or 2, they loan them.

tell me the last top 6 player that another PL team has bought that wasn’t getting used or as you put it being deadwood?

edit: before anyone pipes up that Levy said it wouldn’t affect spending, remember 1, we wasn’t a CL team at the time 2, the difference being a CL team meant much higher fees and wages

 

[Bobbins]

Eh? We all know he doesn't literally answer to fans or rely on their consent. But there are more constraints on all of us than mere legal ones.



Definition for "untenable":

untenable

/ʌnˈtɛnəb(ə)l/

adjective

(especially of a position or view) not able to be maintained or defended against attack or objection.

"this argument is clearly untenable"

My use of the word was perfectly valid. Nothing to do with being unable to continue in terms of institutional structure. It's untenable from a constructivist standpoint. He built the conditions that enables, empowered, and then constrained him.

So what's your point? Absolutely nothing will change as a result of all this. Levy will not be stepping down or selling up. HIs power absolutely doesn't come with any responsibility (by the way I can't stand that phrase - it's completely untrue for 99% of people in society who actually have any real power).

Your posts were implying that there was no way in which Levy could continue to be chairman of Tottenham Hotspur. But that's absolutely not the case at all.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Don't see how that could be brought in here considering the way ownership runs currently. It's totally different to how the German league's were at the time.

Yep will be very difficult.
Government would need to get involved and change the rules, its probably too late for this now.