Should Welsh clubs be allowed to represent England in Europe?

[bigturnip]

Ahead of the 2008 FA Cup final the FA gave Cardiff special dispensation to enter the Europa League representing England should they win the final. The current position is, that since Swansea and Cardiff moved from regulation under the FAW to the FA at the beginning of this season, there is now no dispensation required and Welsh clubs will automatically go on to represent England in Europe should they qualify.

Cardiff are obviously in the League Cup final and Swansea are currently sitting on top of the Premier League Fair Play league table, so conceivably both clubs could be representing England in Europe next season.

Although Cardiff and Swansea have played in the English league system for over 100 and 90 years respectively, they have done so under immunity from sanctions and disciplinary punishments from the FA. Maybe I am being slightly cynical, but I find it a rather odd coincidence that just as the two clubs are becoming more successful and European qualification becomes more of a possibility they have traded this immunity in place of a guaranteed place at Europe's top table should they qualify.

Both Hereford and Shrewsbury have won the Welsh Cup as English teams and have been denied the right to represent Wales in Europe by the FAW, but the FA showed in 2008 that it would not impose the same veto on Welsh clubs winning our domestic cup competitions. Cardiff and Swansea have remained under the protection of the FAW in full knowledge that they were not allowed the represent the FA overseas, yet as soon as it became a possibility they sought to reneg on this.

Had both clubs fully integrated into the English league system when, or soon after, they joined it I would have no qualms about the situation. The fact that it has been less than 6 months since they left the auspices of the FAW does seem to leave a slightly bitter taste in the mouth that these 'new kids on the block' may now be able to block English clubs, who have been governed by the FA and played by the rules for many many years, from representing their country in Europe.

It is possible that there will be more Welsh clubs representing England in Europe next year than English clubs representing England.

I for one am not happy to at the possibility of seeing two of England's European berths being handed to Welsh clubs, I understand that it is 'only' the Europa League at the moment, but would people still be so accepting if they were taking up Champion's League spots at the expense of English clubs, possibly even Tottenham?

 

[Yid-ol]

They gave up there own league to play in a bigger league to get more money, they gave up there chance of European football when they moved, so i am and always have been in the, No they shouldnt be alowed to take an english teams place.

 

[TheBlueRooster]

I for one am not happy to at the possibility of seeing two of England's European berths being handed to Welsh clubs, I understand that it is 'only' the Europa League at the moment, but would people still be so accepting if they were taking up Champion's League spots at the expense of English clubs, possibly even Tottenham?

This is the Tottenham who when they get a European slot they can't be bothered to put out a decent team to qualify for the next stages of a fairly simple competition. If the Welsh teams earn the right within the rules of competition then good luck to them. If Swansea qualified at the expense of the Gooners you'd laugh your knob off.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

They gave up there own league to play in a bigger league to get more money, they gave up there chance of European football when they moved, so i am and always have been in the, No they shouldnt be alowed to take an english teams place.

I'm confused. have I read you wrong? How did they give up their own league when they've been a Football League club for over 90 years? And where did they move to?

 

[chrissivad]

I dont think they have ever played in the Welsh league have they?

didn't agree that they were still under the Welsh FA though, but im sure that changed last/this season.

 

[Yid-ol]

I'm confused. have I read you wrong? How did they give up their own league when they've been a Football League club for over 90 years? And where did they move to?

When Cardiff was first formed they played in wales and then moved to the english leagues

. To combat this they arranged to join the South Wales Amateur League in 1907 and the following year they were granted permission to change the name of the club to Cardiff City.
Interest in the club began to rise during this time, but they were forced to turn down the opportunity to join the newly formed Southern League Second Division due to the lack of facilities at their Sophia Gardens ground. Over the next two years Cardiff welcomed many of Britain's top sides to Cardiff, including Middlesbrough, Bristol City and Crystal Palace, with the matches being played at various grounds in Cardiff and nearby towns. The club would eventually move into their new ground, Ninian Park, in 1910. The club made its first signing the following year with the acquisition of Jack Evans from fellow Welsh club Cwmparc FC.

Fair enough they have been in the english leagues longer than i thought they had and may have been a bit over the top in what i said to start with.

 

[Spurger King]

No they shouldn't. It should either be an English or Welsh league, or an English league. Not an English league with a handful of Welsh teams.

Would we have Celtic and Rangers in our league, without any of the other Scottish teams having a chance of joining?

I admit that this might be slightly influenced by my hatred of Cardiff City fans.

 

[mattdefoe]

Yes there taking points off English teams weekly so why not? Barcelona represent catalunia aswell as Spain

 

[Welshiespursboyo]

Of course they should. They should be subject to the same rules as every other club in the leagues they play in and that also means having the same opportunity to play in Europe. Quite frankly I have no time for anyone who feels differently to that. Pathetic.

 

[beats1]

Yes, they been in the league for years and no one made a fuss of it and tbh it sounds like sour grapes to me if someone complains about them taking a english space

If you're not ready to give them a place kick em out of the league, you cant have one rule for the english and another for the welsh

Israel isn't in europe but they are allowed to enter the euros and would represent europe in the confederations cup if they won euros despite there being a asian team there already

 

[chrissivad]

Of course they should. They should be subject to the same rules as every other club in the leagues they play in and that also means having the same opportunity to play in Europe. Quite frankly I have no time for anyone who feels differently to that. Pathetic.

But thats the problem, they haven't been.
Thay have been under the Welsh FA and the English FA have had no control over them (untill now?)

So they have been under the Welsh Laws and their punishments rather than the Englash FA.

As long as they Play in the English League (wound let any more teams out with join now though) they should be under the English FA control. Dont have a problem if its like that

 

[Kendall]

I didn't realise they weren't subject to FA punishments and rules. In that case, no, they shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Welshiespursboyo]

But thats the problem, they haven't been.
Thay have been under the Welsh FA and the English FA have had no control over them (untill now?)

So they have been under the Welsh Laws and their punishments rather than the Englash FA.

As long as they Play in the English League (wound let any more teams out with join now though) they should be under the English FA control. Dont have a problem if its like that

Ah.

Well they should definately be subject to the English FA, not the Welsh FA. But as they are playing in the English FA leagues, then they should still be allowed to play in Europe.

It's who they are subject to that needs to be changed, NOT the rule regarding participating in Europe.

Simples.

Thanks for enlightening me :up:

 

[tototoner]

of course they should

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

I can't believe anyone would say they shouldn't be able to.

 

[worcestersauce]

They have always played in the football league which Never was called the English football league which doesn't disqualify them. Just because some rich clubs started the epl doesn't rule them out.
The England cricket team is actually the English and Welsh cricket team because the relationship between the English and Welsh is like no other in the world.

 

[Rocksuperstar]

Wales is like an extreme version of Scotland - if Cardiff & Swansea went to compete in the Rhymney Valley League then Abedare could wave goodbye to the title, but that's simply because Wales is a very small country and hasn't really got the teams to put up against the likes of those that play in Europe. Imagine if the Welsh FA were told they could have a spot in the Champions League qualifiers for the club that finishes top - would that team have any chance whatsoever? Maybe, but until that happens, I think that every team accepted into a league should be as able to win prizes as any other.

If they won the FA cup, would we have denied them that honour, seeing as it's the English FA that runs it? Of course we wouldn't, and it still confuses me why a team that potentially could've earned itself a place in the Waffa by being better than it's peers, who all had an equal chance of qualifying for that competition, should be denied.

We let them join the English League system, we should honour that commitment by giving them the same opportunities as any other team - if they're good enough then let them reap the rewards.

 

[Welshiespursboyo]

:up: RSS

 

[DJS]

I think it was pretty damn stupid for them to be playing in the English League but then not answering to that League's FA.

You shouldn't be able to have your cake and eat it like that.

S'long as they are now both under the same FA as all the other 90 teams then I have no problem with them qualifying for Europe.

I don't even tend to think of them as Welsh Teams playing in the English League anyways.

 

[al_pacino]

It does make you wonder why the Welsh FA aren't keen on having players in the GB Olympic team though. Somehow that might effect your independence on the International Board but having teams in our league system doesn't.