Silly season and potential outgoings

nailsy

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It was vetoed because of the fee was on offer as well below the market rate, the simple fact is that we only deferred his departure with did not stop this because no club can without damaging itself.

As for Wenger well he also said that Van Persie wouldn't go to United and yet he did. They will readily sell the player to a rivial and take a fee than lose him to that side anyway without one. And this doesn't just come down to players on short contacts, clubs of our standing such as A. Madrid, Valencia and Dortmund have consistently shown an inability to retain their best players after successful periods often to supposed rivals as well.

The real question is why do people still consider clubs with billionaire benefactors and far superior capacity to ours 'rivals'. Certainly in the league campaign this and last year but in terms of medium to long term success and in terms of transfer and salary spend we are not even in the same league. Leicester competed with these clubs last season but they are not rivials to them. When a club can pay 3-4 times the salary than we can and can easily afford the premium to secure their sevices then some of our supporters are seriously deluding themselves with such confidence when it comes to us retaining our best players.
It's obvious that there are richer clubs that could pay huge fees and massive wages, and if a player really wanted to leave us he probably would get a move, but I doubt it would be to a premier league team as it doesn't make much business sense to strengthen a direct rival. We also happen to be the 12th richest club in the world and should earn an estimated £145m this season so it's not like we're short on money and need to sell players.

Lol I wasn't making a point, I was asking a question.

even so, the reason I excluded bale is because his was obviously an exceptional case. A club our size, who at the time were not in the CL could not turn down a fee that big. Especially as it had the possibility of helping us strengthen the whole squad.

It was an exceptional case and circumstance which didn't fit the trend of other stars we were forced to sell under ENIC - Carrick, Berbatov and Modric all had 2 years or less left on their contracts.

And contrary to your point earlier Modric was not sold to Chelsea because they didn't stump up the cash it's because Levy refused to strengthen a rival. Plus the power was still with club as at that time Modric had 3 years left on his contract. The fact we sold him for £30m to Madrid a year after Chelsea had offered £40m shows the fee was not the determining factor in his sale.

I agree with a lot of points you have made regarding our place in the food chain. But I evidence suggests we won't be bullied into selling anyone that doesn't have 2 years remaining on their contract or we don't have a world record bid in for, and I don't see that changing.
It's also well known that United offered a lot more money for Bale than Real Madrid paid for him.
 

TheHood

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I think the players and the manager place these expectations upon themselves. Poch was first manager in the premiership era to talk about actually winning the Premier League. That was a quantum shift in club mentality. To start with it sounded strange but now it's our ethos it's our aim, and the supporter base is starting to believe. Well maybe not Milsey, but more than ever before. If we fall short it won't be through want of trying or any lack of ability.

Where do we come into us as supporters? I see no need to place any expectations, I hope we win the league but I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the ride because we are in good hands. And if we come second I'll still be really proud of this side. My expectations if I had any or your expectations have no bearing on anything with all due respect.
That isn't the case, Redknapp talked about titles on a number of different occasions.There hasn't been a quantum shift when only last year despite being a few points off top spot our longest serving player as worrying as to whether we would finish fourth or not. I certainly do not sense that this is a club,at any level, is one that where it has to win something.

And why does this supposed ambition only extend to he league? Where is the desire to win a cup which represents a far more realistic chance of success? Why is there such a disconnect between our Cup performances and our league ones? Viewed in isolation would anyone dare to say that this is one of the best teams in England based on our Cup tournaments? I don't think so.

The supporters should have expectations of silverware when it possess such a side and it should place demands rather adopting its current passive approach. The only demand it ever places is for attractive football, it's never for silverware and when clubs likes Sevilla win 5 UEFA cups and we cannot get past the second round despite being the wealthiest club that should not be the case.

We have fallen short on anumber of occasions since the start of this decade, how more times do we have to experience this before we start to question this?
 

tiger666

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And why does this supposed ambition only extend to he league? Where is the desire to win a cup which represents a far more realistic chance of success? Why is there such a disconnect between our Cup performances and our league ones? Viewed in isolation would anyone dare to say that this is one of the best teams in England based on our Cup tournaments? I don't think so.
We lost in the semi final and were the better team and you don't think we showed desire to win it?
 

Charly***

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That isn't the case, Redknapp talked about titles on a number of different occasions.There hasn't been a quantum shift when only last year despite being a few points off top spot our longest serving player as worrying as to whether we would finish fourth or not. I certainly do not sense that this is a club,at any level, is one that where it has to win something.

And why does this supposed ambition only extend to he league? Where is the desire to win a cup which represents a far more realistic chance of success? Why is there such a disconnect between our Cup performances and our league ones? Viewed in isolation would anyone dare to say that this is one of the best teams in England based on our Cup tournaments? I don't think so.

The supporters should have expectations of silverware when it possess such a side and it should place demands rather adopting its current passive approach. The only demand it ever places is for attractive football, it's never for silverware and when clubs likes Sevilla win 5 UEFA cups and we cannot get past the second round despite being the wealthiest club that should not be the case.

We have fallen short on anumber of occasions since the start of this decade, how more times do we have to experience this before we start to question this?
I thought Redknapp said this was as good as it gets? Can you imagine Poch coming out with that? Harry was very pleased with himself to get top 4. To go further he thought we needed to spend on top top players. I never got the sense he fully believed Levys modus operandi could take us further and there was some friction there. Poch conversely fully accepts Levys plan and it doesn't limit his ambition.

Ramos won a cup but sacrificed league games to do so. He cut corners. I'm sure Poch wants to win cups too but not at the expense of the league. I don't think our second string are quite good enough to do both, but I think we're stronger in that respect than last season with Son going up a level, Trippier too & Victor coming in. So what's to say we won't add another one or two this closed season or youngsters step up and improve again in that respect.

Chelsea might beat us to both FA cup and league this season. They're a money club, but still their squad hasn't been stretched with injuries and European games as ours has. I think they actually have less 2nd string options than we do so, certainly in defence, wingback & DM, they've had a little luck in that respect.
 

nailsy

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That isn't the case, Redknapp talked about titles on a number of different occasions.There hasn't been a quantum shift when only last year despite being a few points off top spot our longest serving player as worrying as to whether we would finish fourth or not. I certainly do not sense that this is a club,at any level, is one that where it has to win something.

And why does this supposed ambition only extend to he league? Where is the desire to win a cup which represents a far more realistic chance of success? Why is there such a disconnect between our Cup performances and our league ones? Viewed in isolation would anyone dare to say that this is one of the best teams in England based on our Cup tournaments? I don't think so.

The supporters should have expectations of silverware when it possess such a side and it should place demands rather adopting its current passive approach. The only demand it ever places is for attractive football, it's never for silverware and when clubs likes Sevilla win 5 UEFA cups and we cannot get past the second round despite being the wealthiest club that should not be the case.

We have fallen short on anumber of occasions since the start of this decade, how more times do we have to experience this before we start to question this?
I'd agree that in previous seasons Poch has sold us a bit short in the cup, but there's definitely been a change in his approach this season. He's played strong line ups in most of our FA cup games and we almost made it to the final. You can see this change in mentality in the players as well. Harry Kane said months ago that this would be a disappointing season if we didn't win a trophy of some kind. The desire is definitely there.
 

doctor stefan Freud

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I thought Redknapp said this was as good as it gets? Can you imagine Poch coming out with that? Harry was very pleased with himself to get top 4. To go further he thought we needed to spend on top top players. I never got the sense he fully believed Levys modus operandi could take us further and there was some friction there. Poch conversely fully accepts Levys plan and it doesn't limit his ambition.

Ramos won a cup but sacrificed league games to do so. He cut corners. I'm sure Poch wants to win cups too but not at the expense of the league. I don't think our second string are quite good enough to do both, but I think we're stronger in that respect than last season with Son going up a level, Trippier too & Victor coming in. So what's to say we won't add another one or two this closed season or youngsters step up and improve again in that respect.

Chelsea might beat us to both FA cup and league this season. They're a money club, but still their squad hasn't been stretched with injuries and European games as ours has. I think they actually have less 2nd string options than we do so, certainly in defence, wingback & DM, they've had a little luck in that respect.
Lovely post. I enjoyed the ride with Redknap until his limitations as a coach stymied us and we reached a plateau. With Poch, it seems very much a case of get players with genuine potential and I trust my and my team's ability to take them to the next level, which we are seeing this season. Go back two years and did any of us realistically expect two seasons of consecutively finishing in the top four? We are evolving into a very, very decent squad and a club that is showing it genuinely wants to compete at a much higher level.
Of course there are still things that need improvement: our form in Europe for example. But there is a tangible sense of us moving in the right direction, a sense that Poch is fashioning a very competitive squad that isn't yet fully formed, that might take another season or two before it arrives burnished with quality, hard wired to think and act as a single, exhilarating unit sweeping other teams aside at a fiercely consistent level. It took Ferguson five years to win a trophy and another couple to begin the resemble the force Utd would become for the next 20 odd years. I don't use this example because I romantically and naively believe we will reach those heights- we probably won't- but great teams that aren't assembled on riches alone take longer to incubate.
I'm happy to enjoy the ride for now. I hope we destroy Arsenal on Sunday, and believe we can but equally if we lose, as much as it'll deflate me I'll still feel optimistic for our future. And this was supposed to be the seasson the big boys woke up again and we slunked back to fifth or sixth place.
 

Everlasting Seconds

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After such a season, it is inevitable that at least one big name and cherished player will end up leaving, IMO.
So announcing a big Spurs name leaving reminds me about this post getting an absolute shit storm, inclusive of these highly informed comments as examples:

This post reads like an engine noise: "Wum...wum..wuuuuuum....wuuuuuuuuuuuuuum!"
Ha he really did. A sarcastic condescending comeback doesn't really work if you get it so badly wrong :LOL:
Wum and badly wrong, huh ... :finger:
 

Trix

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Thread starter #128
So announcing a big Spurs name leaving reminds me about this post getting an absolute shit storm, inclusive of these highly informed comments as examples:




Wum and badly wrong, huh ... :finger:
Is he really a big name as far as we are concerned? I think we could all name 9/10 players we would rather keep tbh. I know I could.
 

Everlasting Seconds

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Is he really a big name as far as we are concerned? I think we could all name 9/10 players we would rather keep tbh. I know I could.
It's not a disaster that he is leaving, I for one am excited for the RB position next season without him, but I think that's a different question from whether or not he was a big name in the squad. It's odd not to view him as a high profile outgoing, I think. It's all onions anyway, I suppose.
 

robertgoulet

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@Trix maybe you can help explain this.

Is there any particular reason that you never see "trade" type deals? In American sports you see them all the time, but it seems like it's pretty rare to see a player thrown in to a transfer deal as a way to make the deal more acceptable for one of the teams.

Ex. say Spurs wanted Iheanacho and cash instead of just cash...why do those deals never seem to get done?
 

Gb160

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So announcing a big Spurs name leaving reminds me about this post getting an absolute shit storm, inclusive of these highly informed comments as examples:




Wum and badly wrong, huh ... :finger:
Well done Mystic Meg.
PS, the second post you've quoted was in reference to a condescending comeback you completely butchered, so what you're quoting that for I have absolutely no idea.
 

Trix

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Thread starter #132
It's not a disaster that he is leaving, I for one am excited for the RB position next season without him, but I think that's a different question from whether or not he was a big name in the squad. It's odd not to view him as a high profile outgoing, I think. It's all onions anyway, I suppose.
I agree to an extent, but lets be honest this is nothing like losing Bale, Modric or Berbatov. This is akin to losing Stephen Carr or Nick Barmby. That is how far we have come as a team I suppose, as he was nowhere near our star player. I honestly believe had he not been English and City being desperate for English players, he would have gone for vastly less(and yes he still would have gone somewhere).
 

talkshowhost86

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It's not a disaster that he is leaving, I for one am excited for the RB position next season without him, but I think that's a different question from whether or not he was a big name in the squad. It's odd not to view him as a high profile outgoing, I think. It's all onions anyway, I suppose.
I think he's a big name, and yet of our most frequent starting XI from last season the player I'd be most happy to lose.

I think that's a sign of just how good our team has been rather than any sleight on Walker.

He's the best right back in the league...it's definitely a high profile outgoing.

But one we can deal with.
 

Trix

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Thread starter #134
@Trix maybe you can help explain this.

Is there any particular reason that you never see "trade" type deals? In American sports you see them all the time, but it seems like it's pretty rare to see a player thrown in to a transfer deal as a way to make the deal more acceptable for one of the teams.

Ex. say Spurs wanted Iheanacho and cash instead of just cash...why do those deals never seem to get done?
Because it's not America;)




In all seriousness, it's just too complicated.
 

Everlasting Seconds

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I agree to an extent, but lets be honest this is nothing like losing Bale, Modric or Berbatov. This is akin to losing Stephen Carr or Nick Barmby. That is how far we have come as a team I suppose, as he was nowhere near our star player. I honestly believe had he not been English and City being desperate for English players, he would have gone for vastly less(and yes he still would have gone somewhere).
Absolutely. I'm curious about how far Barcelona stayed in the chase.

I think he's a big name, and yet of our most frequent starting XI from last season the player I'd be most happy to lose.

I think that's a sign of just how good our team has been rather than any sleight on Walker.

He's the best right back in the league...it's definitely a high profile outgoing.

But one we can deal with.
100% agree with that. Maybe with the caveat that I don't think he will continue to be the best RB in the league next season.
 

robertgoulet

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@Trix maybe you can help explain this.

Is there any particular reason that you never see "trade" type deals? In American sports you see them all the time, but it seems like it's pretty rare to see a player thrown in to a transfer deal as a way to make the deal more acceptable for one of the teams.

Ex. say Spurs wanted Iheanacho and cash instead of just cash...why do those deals never seem to get done?
Because it's not America;)




In all seriousness, it's just too complicated.
So the contracts not carry over from one team to the other? I'd guess if that were the case it would definitely complicate things.
 

Trix

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Thread starter #137
So the contracts not carry over from one team to the other? I'd guess if that were the case it would definitely complicate things.
No the clubs don't sell on the contract, they sell on the players registration rights. Contracts then have to be agreed with new clubs before the player signs.
 
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robertgoulet

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So the contracts not carry over from one team to the other? I'd guess if that were the case it would definitely complicate things.
No the clubs don't sell on the contract, they sell on the players registration rights. Contracts then have to be agreed with new clubs before the player signs.
That makes sense as to why it's rare then. Thanks!
 

Griff001

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Well done Mystic Meg.
PS, the second post you've quoted was in reference to a condescending comeback you completely butchered, so what you're quoting that for I have absolutely no idea.
I was going to say, I don't ever remember calling you sarcastic and badly wrong because you said a big name player would leave. I can't be bothered to go through and see what it was in response to, but I do remember you being wrong, and sarcastic, about something completely different to why you've quoted me.
 
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