Someone To Blame?

[spurslenny]

THIS THREAD IS COBBLED TOGETHER FROM OFF-TOPIC CONVERSATION, BUT REPRESENTED A GOOD DISCUSSION ON "BLAME".

Much Love,

Stoof x

....
Mmmmm, not really. More about the merits of retaining the services of Peter Crouch

'crouch offers something different'

Like what? Not being able to score more than 4 goals a season as a main striker? Or, the tallest player in the league that can't jump, doesn't win as many headers as he should, isn't even that good at heading the ball, requires 6 touches to get the ball under control when 1 or 2 will do, makes the team subconsciously play more long balls than it should in the mis-placed belief that he'll win bundles of headers and knockdowns?

Yeah, he's different alright.

 

[talkshowhost86]

'crouch offers something different'

Like what? Not being able to score more than 4 goals a season as a main striker? Or, the tallest player in the league that can't jump, doesn't win as many headers as he should, isn't even that good at heading the ball, requires 6 touches to get the ball under control when 1 or 2 will do, makes the team subconsciously play more long balls than it should in the mis-placed belief that he'll win bundles of headers and knockdowns?

Yeah, he's different alright.

Nonsense from start to finish there.

Yes Crouch is limited but half of VdV's goals last year came from Crouch assists in one way or another.

All of our strikers are limited but at least with Crouch there's a chance that he can link up with the midfielders. Defoe and Pav wouldn't know link up play if it poked them up the chuff.

I hope we replace all four because none of them are good enough for where we want to be. But Crouch is easily our best option of the four at the moment.

 

[Paolo10]

Replace all four? We can hardly fucking get one in and one out before the season starts. I really do blame the chairman, this is a shambles tbfh.

Which of our striking targets can even speak English? KJH, Adebayor and Rossi? If we don't get one of those in, I don't believe other players will settle in too well with the language barrier/culture shock etc. Unless something comes out of left field...

Grim.

 

[Stoof]

I really do blame the chairman, this is a shambles tbfh.

Must ... blame ... someone. Helps ... sleep ... better.

Give me a break. If this is a shambles, what were Spurs in 1990s. I'm surprised you made it through.

[smug]Oh the power of being able to look at the bigger picture.[/smug]

 

[pablo73]

Nonsense from start to finish there.

Yes Crouch is limited but half of VdV's goals last year came from Crouch assists in one way or another.

All of our strikers are limited but at least with Crouch there's a chance that he can link up with the midfielders. Defoe and Pav wouldn't know link up play if it poked them up the chuff.

I hope we replace all four because none of them are good enough for where we want to be. But Crouch is easily our best option of the four at the moment.

whilst I don't dispute what you've said, are there any of the points spurslenny made that you would dispute as being factually incorrect? other than need 6 touches to bring the ball under control - it's more like 4

 

[Spurs_Q8]

Replace all four? We can hardly fucking get one in and one out before the season starts. I really do blame the chairman, this is a shambles tbfh.

Which of our striking targets can even speak English? KJH, Adebayor and Rossi? If we don't get one of those in, I don't believe other players will settle in too well with the language barrier/culture shock etc. Unless something comes out of left field...

Grim.

sometimes, i feel if we sold the players on cheap, we could get some players on cheap

like if we sold Keane for £2m, we could ended up with Forlan for cheap, can't see Atletico Madrid doing business at the end of the transfer window !

 

[talkshowhost86]

Replace all four? We can hardly fucking get one in and one out before the season starts. I really do blame the chairman, this is a shambles tbfh.

Which of our striking targets can even speak English? KJH, Adebayor and Rossi? If we don't get one of those in, I don't believe other players will settle in too well with the language barrier/culture shock etc. Unless something comes out of left field...

Grim.

Well as long as you're taking it in a calm and measured fashion :roll:

 

[lenny7]

If this is a shambles, what were Spurs in 1990s.

A 'Hiroshima'.

 

[tttcowan]

Well as long as you're taking it in a calm and measured fashion :roll:

 

[CAS_GG]

Must ... blame ... someone. Helps ... sleep ... better.

Give me a break. If this is a shambles, what were Spurs in 1990s. I'm surprised you made it through.

[smug]Oh the power of being able to look at the bigger picture.[/smug]

I think the shambles he is talking about is the fact we have had a real chance to establish ourselves in the top 4 and would have probably been in CL again this season if only we had managed to get a decent striker in last Summer/January

Here we are now in August and still no sign of one.

Smug is good but only if you are really looking at the really BIG picture

What did we earn from CL last season, £40m

Sort of worth pay the extra wages to be there again, No?

 

[Paolo10]

Must ... blame ... someone. Helps ... sleep ... better.

Give me a break. If this is a shambles, what were Spurs in 1990s. I'm surprised you made it through.

[smug]Oh the power of being able to look at the bigger picture.[/smug]

Stoof, bigger picture? If we don't get a striker in now (a good 3 windows at least after we probably should have), then we're pretty much fucked for the CL spots unless by some miracle some of them manage to hit any kind of form. The failure of the last 2 windows cost us CL, another failure will see us risk losing our best players and ultimately the longer term future of the club.

When has Harry ever had a problem with signing players during his career on far more limited budgets than ours? Our fannying about in the transfer market was happening long before he was around and DL is a constant. Are we going to be running about in January again like some fucking desperados? The time is now and this is bigger picture, especially with Liverpool and Citeh strengthening, unless you want a swift return to the dark days of the 90's and yes, I was there.

Big picture is, get someone in now to convert the chances or watch the nucleus of a very talented squad disintegrate IMO.

 

[spurslenny]

Nonsense from start to finish there.

Yes Crouch is limited but half of VdV's goals last year came from Crouch assists in one way or another.

All of our strikers are limited but at least with Crouch there's a chance that he can link up with the midfielders. Defoe and Pav wouldn't know link up play if it poked them up the chuff.

I hope we replace all four because none of them are good enough for where we want to be. But Crouch is easily our best option of the four at the moment.

Nonsense, eh?

Many's the time I've seen balls lofted up to him that he doesn't jump for and doesn't win, or directs the ball in the wrong direction should he actually get his head on it.
Too often I've seen him play 'keepy uppy' when we're on the break, only for the counter attack to break down because he couple get the ball under control at the first time of asking.
Too often we've played him against teams that were deemed 'weak at defending aerial threats' only to see crouch have zero effect.
He doesn't score enough goals for a striker. Ever.
I can hardly remember him doing anything other than loitering at the far post for a high ball.

Only my opinion. But I've seen little from him to suggest that it'll be just more of the same from him next season, and the season after etc.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Stoof, bigger picture? If we don't get a striker in now (a good 3 windows at least after we probably should have), then we're pretty much fucked for the CL spots unless by some miracle some of them manage to hit any kind of form. The failure of the last 2 windows cost us CL, another failure will see us risk losing our best players and ultimately the longer term future of the club.

When has Harry ever had a problem with signing players during his career on far more limited budgets than ours? Our fannying about in the transfer market was happening long before he was around and DL is a constant. Are we going to be running about in January again like some fucking deesperados? The time is now and this is bigger picture, especially with Liverpool and Citeh strengthening, unless you want a swift return to the dark days of the 90's and yes, I was there.

Big picture is, get someone in now to convert the chances or watch the nucleus of a very talented squad disintegrate IMO.

I think what Stoof meant is that the reason your expectations (verging on what you feel you deserve apparently) have been raised BECAUSE of Levy. That's what is meant by bigger picture.

I actually think our fans were alot more tolerable when we weren't very good. At least then some of you didn't have this belief that we have a divine right to be a top team.

 

[impspur]

Stoof, bigger picture? If we don't get a striker in now (a good 3 windows at least after we probably should have), then we're pretty much fucked for the CL spots unless by some miracle some of them manage to hit any kind of form. The failure of the last 2 windows cost us CL, another failure will see us risk losing our best players and ultimately the longer term future of the club.

When has Harry ever had a problem with signing players during his career on far more limited budgets than ours? Our fannying about in the transfer market was happening long before he was around and DL is a constant. Are we going to be running about in January again like some fucking desperados? The time is now and this is bigger picture, especially with Liverpool and Citeh strengthening, unless you want a swift return to the dark days of the 90's and yes, I was there.

Big picture is, get someone in now to convert the chances or watch the nucleus of a very talented squad disintegrate IMO.

this

 

[Stoof]

Stoof, bigger picture? If we don't get a striker in now (a good 3 windows at least after we probably should have), then we're pretty much fucked for the CL spots unless by some miracle some of them manage to hit any kind of form. The failure of the last 2 windows cost us CL, another failure will see us risk losing our best players and ultimately the longer term future of the club.

Your first assumption is that it's our fault we haven't got someone in. That's just lazy and I can't actually count how many times I have countered this argument and yet to be satisfied with any response. "Failure" is such a strong word; we're after 'top top' players. Record-breaking transfer figure players. Lest we forget that Mr. Bent is our record signing still - we haven't broken that £20m barrier.

When has Harry ever had a problem with signing players during his career on far more limited budgets than ours? Our fannying about in the transfer market was happening long before he was around and DL is a constant. Are we going to be running about in January again like some fucking desperados? The time is now and this is bigger picture, especially with Liverpool and Citeh strengthening, unless you want a swift return to the dark days of the 90's and yes, I was there.

Big picture is, get someone in now to convert the chances or watch the nucleus of a very talented squad disintegrate IMO.

This has been a very cagey window, you take a step back - and aside from United chucking £40m around for Young and Jones and Liverpool slinging £40m for Henderson and Downing, and City doing what City were always bound to do - who has done anything of note? Sunderland? Wow! They've been spending their Henderson money. On Wes Brown.

When has Harry ever managed a 'top top' club? When has he ever had to identify a Champions League quality International superstar; which is quite frankly what we want. Not fucking Yakubu.

The difference is, it takes a lot less effort and time to sign a Yakubu then it does an Adebayor or a Rossi (neither of which I think we'll end up with). This isn't a stick to beat him with, however. It's more a nod towards how difficult things are at the very top end of the market.

You'll also note that Europe is in fucking financial trouble. And the football clubs are now feeling the belated effects of a recession that European Nations are barely recovering from, if it all. They also have one eye on the Financial Fair Play Rules. So clubs are not going to hamstring themselves by selling cheap, no way Jose.

So many factors; which is why your lazy blame-pointing """analysis""" doesn't do anything for me, honey.

 

[McFlash]

I think that we need to remember that this is new to all of us so in a sense, we're playing by ear.
Who, out of anyone related to Spurs, from the chairman to the fans has got experience of this "new level" that we're at.
Ok, we used to be a big team but the game, and the way it works has changed a lot since then.

I'm pretty sure that everyone is doing their best to improve the club but it's a big step, and not an easy one.

I'm pretty sure that the powers that be aren't just sitting around, scratching each others arses.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

You'll also note that Europe is in fucking financial trouble. And the football clubs are now feeling the belated effects of a recession that European Nations are barely recovering from, if it all. They also have one eye on the Financial Fair Play Rules.

So many factors; which is why your lazy blame-pointing """analysis""" doesn't do anything for me, honey.

It might take a while for this to have an effect, though. The first thing to change will probably be Spanish tax laws, which are so favourable to the big earners. That might level the playing field. Then a move to collective bargaining for TV rights might see the top clubs lose out a bit to the lesser clubs. Trouble is, the UK is in pretty bad shape too.

 

[codspur]

Your first assumption is that it's our fault we haven't got someone in. That's just lazy and I can't actually count how many times I have countered this argument and yet to be satisfied with any response. "Failure" is such a strong word; we're after 'top top' players. Record-breaking transfer figure players. Lest we forget that Mr. Bent is our record signing still - we haven't broken that £20m barrier.



This has been a very cagey window, you take a step back - and aside from United chucking £40m around for Young and Jones and Liverpool slinging £40m for Henderson and Downing, and City doing what City were always bound to do - who has done anything of note? Sunderland? Wow! They've been spending their Henderson money. On Wes Brown.

When has Harry ever managed a 'top top' club? When has he ever had to identify a Champions League quality International superstar; which is quite frankly what we want. Not fucking Yakubu.

The difference is, it takes a lot less effort and time to sign a Yakubu then it does an Adebayor or a Rossi (neither of which I think we'll end up with). This isn't a stick to beat him with, however. It's more a nod towards how difficult things are at the very top end of the market.

You'll also note that Europe is in fucking financial trouble. And the football clubs are now feeling the belated effects of a recession that European Nations are barely recovering from, if it all. They also have one eye on the Financial Fair Play Rules. So clubs are not going to hamstring themselves by selling cheap, no way Jose.

So many factors; which is why your lazy blame-pointing """analysis""" doesn't do anything for me, honey.

:clap:Great post repped

 

[Paolo10]

Your first assumption is that it's our fault we haven't got someone in. That's just lazy and I can't actually count how many times I have countered this argument and yet to be satisfied with any response. "Failure" is such a strong word; we're after 'top top' players. Record-breaking transfer figure players. Lest we forget that Mr. Bent is our record signing still - we haven't broken that £20m barrier.

This has been a very cagey window, you take a step back - and aside from United chucking £40m around for Young and Jones and Liverpool slinging £40m for Henderson and Downing, and City doing what City were always bound to do - who has done anything of note? Sunderland? Wow! They've been spending their Henderson money. On Wes Brown.

At the tail end of our 3rd window looking for this elusive striker, if no one's at fault then why hasn't someone been identified and signed at least a year later? Defoe's package was supposedly closer to £19m not counting debts and clauses etc. owed by Pompey. Vucinic just went for €15m, we're not talking Lionel Kaka Roonaldinho here, someone better than what we have. You'd think after so long knowing what we needed we'd have had a decent list of ATTAINABLE targets by now and should have already made noises to bringing someone in, anyone to freshen up the competition IMO.

When has Harry ever managed a 'top top' club? When has he ever had to identify a Champions League quality International superstar; which is quite frankly what we want. Not fucking Yakubu.

The difference is, it takes a lot less effort and time to sign a Yakubu then it does an Adebayor or a Rossi (neither of which I think we'll end up with). This isn't a stick to beat him with, however. It's more a nod towards how difficult things are at the very top end of the market.

You'll also note that Europe is in fucking financial trouble. And the football clubs are now feeling the belated effects of a recession that European Nations are barely recovering from, if it all. They also have one eye on the Financial Fair Play Rules. So clubs are not going to hamstring themselves by selling cheap, no way Jose.

So many factors; which is why your lazy blame-pointing """analysis""" doesn't do anything for me, honey.

Yes the market's tough, and it will get tougher as the richer clubs spend, and it's only a matter of time before the gap gets bigger and they start throwing their wedge towards our players, who will want CL football and massive wages which due to our failure, we won't be able to offer them.

I'm not talking Yakubu, but if a few respected people are to be believed, Rossi would have been here and all last season if it wasn't for DL. There's middle ground out there and it's someone's fucking fault that they haven't been identified and the wheels put in motion.

As for this "Top top" club business, we were last season and we're going to falter if we don't act now, back down to the realms of mediocrity. This window is crucial and someone is to blame...time is running out and yes, it's grating on me, I feel with good reason.

 

[walworthyid]

Your first assumption is that it's our fault we haven't got someone in. That's just lazy and I can't actually count how many times I have countered this argument and yet to be satisfied with any response. "Failure" is such a strong word; we're after 'top top' players. Record-breaking transfer figure players. Lest we forget that Mr. Bent is our record signing still - we haven't broken that £20m barrier.



This has been a very cagey window, you take a step back - and aside from United chucking £40m around for Young and Jones and Liverpool slinging £40m for Henderson and Downing, and City doing what City were always bound to do - who has done anything of note? Sunderland? Wow! They've been spending their Henderson money. On Wes Brown.

When has Harry ever managed a 'top top' club? When has he ever had to identify a Champions League quality International superstar; which is quite frankly what we want. Not fucking Yakubu.

The difference is, it takes a lot less effort and time to sign a Yakubu then it does an Adebayor or a Rossi (neither of which I think we'll end up with). This isn't a stick to beat him with, however. It's more a nod towards how difficult things are at the very top end of the market.

You'll also note that Europe is in fucking financial trouble. And the football clubs are now feeling the belated effects of a recession that European Nations are barely recovering from, if it all. They also have one eye on the Financial Fair Play Rules. So clubs are not going to hamstring themselves by selling cheap, no way Jose.

So many factors; which is why your lazy blame-pointing """analysis""" doesn't do anything for me, honey.

Many of the counter-arguments that you are making are valid BUT you seem to be coming from the point of view that we could not have done better to ensure that we get the players we want/need.

It is important to remember that it is a "type" of player that we after rather than a "standard" of player. There are players at Man U that are not a lot better than the ones we have but are contributing more because they are the right type of player for that club/team. The world and his uncle knows that had we had a striker that could hold the ball up last season and even chip in with 10-15 goals we would have finished 4th. Now I'm not saying that such a striker is easy to get, but they are not limited to the half a dozen or so names that are constantly linked to us. If we work from the point of view that Crouch, Defoe and Keane are not what we want and other than that are just not good enough, it might be a better starting point than Harry's which is that they are good enough.

Here is a quick list of players that I think are better/more suitable than what we have;

Zomora
Odemwingie (sp?)
Cole
Doyle
Gyan

That is just off of the top of my head and just in this country.

I know it is easier said than done and that there are many factors involved in buying and selling players, but at the same time we have had 3 windows, 2 of those with the added bonus of cl football. What ever way you look at it and whomever you wish to blame there has to be somethin not quite right!