Someone To Blame?

[m*****73]

Your first assumption is that it's our fault we haven't got someone in. That's just lazy and I can't actually count how many times I have countered this argument and yet to be satisfied with any response. "Failure" is such a strong word; we're after 'top top' players. Record-breaking transfer figure players. Lest we forget that Mr. Bent is our record signing still - we haven't broken that £20m barrier.

Really? Where's your proof of that? That's just a "lazy" assumption....

I'm yet to be convinced that the club is willing to spend that money. Unless of course you believe the rumours in the press about DL offering €30m+ for Rossi and the likes at the end of the last window?

If you do, then by extension you validate all the other rumours in the press about what the club is or isn't doing.

This has been a very cagey window, you take a step back - and aside from United chucking £40m around for Young and Jones and Liverpool slinging £40m for Henderson and Downing, and City doing what City were always bound to do

What?!? So three of the top six clubs have each spent £40m+ so far in this window and that somehow supports an argument that this has been a "very cagey window"? Wow.... ignoring the obvious to state the exception... :duh:

When has Harry ever managed a 'top top' club? When has he ever had to identify a Champions League quality International superstar; which is quite frankly what we want. Not fucking Yakubu.

The difference is, it takes a lot less effort and time to sign a Yakubu then it does an Adebayor or a Rossi (neither of which I think we'll end up with). This isn't a stick to beat him with, however. It's more a nod towards how difficult things are at the very top end of the market.

Yeah, Liverpool had alot of difficulty signing Suarez.... there has always been lots of activity in respect of "top top" players moving around between clubs... do you have first hand experience of how difficult it is to make those deals happen? To me, it appeared pretty straightforward to sign VdV? Maybe if one club wants to sell, and another wants to buy, and the player wants to move, then these things can get done pretty quickly?!? Don't make it sound more difficult than it is....

So many factors; which is why your lazy blame-pointing """analysis""" doesn't do anything for me, honey.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[strader]

Your first assumption is that it's our fault we haven't got someone in. That's just lazy and I can't actually count how many times I have countered this argument and yet to be satisfied with any response. "Failure" is such a strong word; we're after 'top top' players. Record-breaking transfer figure players. Lest we forget that Mr. Bent is our record signing still - we haven't broken that £20m barrier.



This has been a very cagey window, you take a step back - and aside from United chucking £40m around for Young and Jones and Liverpool slinging £40m for Henderson and Downing, and City doing what City were always bound to do - who has done anything of note? Sunderland? Wow! They've been spending their Henderson money. On Wes Brown.

When has Harry ever managed a 'top top' club? When has he ever had to identify a Champions League quality International superstar; which is quite frankly what we want. Not fucking Yakubu.

The difference is, it takes a lot less effort and time to sign a Yakubu then it does an Adebayor or a Rossi (neither of which I think we'll end up with). This isn't a stick to beat him with, however. It's more a nod towards how difficult things are at the very top end of the market.

You'll also note that Europe is in fucking financial trouble. And the football clubs are now f. eeling the belated effects of a recession that European Nations are barely recovering from, if it all. They also have one eye on the Financial Fair Play Rules. So clubs are not going to hamstring themselves by selling cheap, no way Jose.

So many factors; which is why your lazy blame-pointing """analysis""" doesn't do anything for me, honey.

Well said, take note Jose.

We are in the same boat ad city, having players on high wages which becomes difficult to shift unless u take a big hit in the pocket. Mancity can afford this but we cant.

 

[Stoof]

I think my point is, and always has been, that there's not necessarily anyone to 'blame'.

And I think it's a terrible indictment of football fans, and society generally, that people are always looking for someone to blame - when more often than not people should a bit closer to home. Perhaps blaming themselves for getting themselves caught along with the hype.

I don't know, I just believe that such negative, anti-establishment opinions are time-wastingly pointless.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I blame you Stoof.

You went away for a year and everything went mad.

You came back and neglected adequate smurfing duties.

It's ALL YOUR FAULT!

 

[Paolo10]

The club is a business and people have jobs.

With this whole striker business someone, somewhere isn't doing their job properly.

I'm not trying to be negative, but unless we have an overly optimistic change in form from our current striking options we can kiss any chance of CL football goodbye and with it say goodbye to Luka....then Bale....then VDV...then someone else and so on and so on.

We need to show Luka our ambiton? And we're still praying for a signing with 10 days to go! If no one is to blame, something stinks at the club!

 

[simyid]

Many of the counter-arguments that you are making are valid BUT you seem to be coming from the point of view that we could not have done better to ensure that we get the players we want/need.

It is important to remember that it is a "type" of player that we after rather than a "standard" of player. There are players at Man U that are not a lot better than the ones we have but are contributing more because they are the right type of player for that club/team. The world and his uncle knows that had we had a striker that could hold the ball up last season and even chip in with 10-15 goals we would have finished 4th. Now I'm not saying that such a striker is easy to get, but they are not limited to the half a dozen or so names that are constantly linked to us. If we work from the point of view that Crouch, Defoe and Keane are not what we want and other than that are just not good enough, it might be a better starting point than Harry's which is that they are good enough.

Here is a quick list of players that I think are better/more suitable than what we have;

Zomora
Odemwingie (sp?)
Cole
Doyle
Gyan

That is just off of the top of my head and just in this country.

I know it is easier said than done and that there are many factors involved in buying and selling players, but at the same time we have had 3 windows, 2 of those with the added bonus of cl football. What ever way you look at it and whomever you wish to blame there has to be somethin not quite right!

i would be very upset if we sign any those those players ive highlighted, especially cole i mean WTF? carlton cole is no better than defoe or pav and neither is doyle i mean we want top 4 and u think signing carlton cole would help that? you clearly don't watch enough football

 

[Blockbuster]

The club is a business and people have jobs.

With this whole striker business someone, somewhere isn't doing their job properly.

I'm not trying to be negative, but unless we have an overly optimistic change in form from our current striking options we can kiss any chance of CL football goodbye and with it say goodbye to Luka....then Bale....then VDV...then someone else and so on and so on.

We need to show Luka our ambiton? And we're still praying for a signing with 10 days to go! If no one is to blame, something stinks at the club!

We could just accept our fate as a top half team and enjoy the small victories of beating Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, City and maybe United.

so what if we finish mid-table as long as we have some good memories!

 

[Mr Pink]

I think my point is, and always has been, that there's not necessarily anyone to 'blame'.

And I think it's a terrible indictment of football fans, and society generally, that people are always looking for someone to blame - when more often than not people should a bit closer to home. Perhaps blaming themselves for getting themselves caught along with the hype.

I don't know, I just believe that such negative, anti-establishment opinions are time-wastingly pointless.

Its a human nature though Stoof, allthough I think the word blame is a tad strong.

When there is so much emotion involved particularly with wanting your team to do well and constantly improve....perspective and objectivity become more difficult.

Supporting your Club is very much a subjective thing so it should be of no surprise that fans find it difficult to be completely objective when analysing strategies/needs of the Club :shrug:

 

[Stoof]

Really? Where's your proof of that? That's just a "lazy" assumption....

It's not at all. It's fact. Plain fact, my lovely. We did put those bids in. We just did. :lol: There's nothing else to say. Both buying and selling clubs have confirmed that!

I'm yet to be convinced that the club is willing to spend that money. Unless of course you believe the rumours in the press about DL offering €30m+ for Rossi and the likes at the end of the last window?

Rumours in the press / confirmation from both clubs. Potato, pot-art-o eh?

If you do, then by extension you validate all the other rumours in the press about what the club is or isn't doing.

No I don't. I read factual statements and take my facts from them. It's a novel approach.

What?!? So three of the top six clubs have each spent £40m+ so far in this window and that somehow supports an argument that this has been a "very cagey window"? Wow.... ignoring the obvious to state the exception... :duh:

It has been a cagey window. Non-bankrolled clubs have done little-to-no business. Have a look at our London neighbours. Both of them.

Yeah, Liverpool had alot of difficulty signing Suarez....

Yeah, they did. Look at the amount of time he was linked with both clubs before he actually went to them. Don't distort stuff. That's how it happened.

There has always been lots of activity in respect of "top top" players moving around between clubs... do you have first hand experience of how difficult it is to make those deals happen? To me, it appeared pretty straightforward to sign VdV? Maybe if one club wants to sell, and another wants to buy, and the player wants to move, then these things can get done pretty quickly?!? Don't make it sound more difficult than it is....

I've been involved in corporate deals in the hundreds of millions for the last 4 years or so. And seen them tank, tank spectaculary over price. In fact it's always on price. I have friends in the industry too. So, first hand, not exactly - but an idea of what must go on from both of these factors.

Yes. As I said the other day, i) if the seller wants to sell, ii) the player wants to come, iii) we can agree a price with the seller, iv) agree a fee with an agent, v) agree wages and bonuses with the player then yes it can happen.

It's hardly you (one party) offerring your mate (one party) a five pound note in exchange for five pound coins.

Yes, like all things they can happen quickly - but with that number of moving parts, and with the nature of these sorts of deals - can you not see how just one of those 5 stages could snag? Do people not get that? Suddently the seller wants X million or suddenly the player doesn't want to come, or suddenly the agent wants a bigger cut, or suddenly someone reads all of my post. Anything could actually happen.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

It's interesting you call my analysis lazy. Very interesting indeed. In fact, I think you'll find that's almost the opposite of the majority of my posts. But you know, not wanting to brag or anything.

 

[walworthyid]

i would be very upset if we sign any those those players ive highlighted, especially cole i mean WTF? carlton cole is no better than defoe or pav and neither is doyle i mean we want top 4 and u think signing carlton cole would help that? you clearly don't watch enough football

You clearly can't read mate! I watch plenty of football and point was that those players are more suitable to the way we play.

When on form Cole, Doyle and Zomora would offer us more than Defoe, Crouch or Keane. You could argue whether they are "better" but the fact is that Keane has had his day, Crouch is shockingly poor and Defoe is as limited as it is possible to get.

Cole admittedly blows hot and cold but Zomora and Doyle although not glamourous and not what I want, would suit us better than what we have particularly when we have to fit vdv in the team.

 

[pablo73]

I think my point is, and always has been, that there's not necessarily anyone to 'blame'.

And I think it's a terrible indictment of football fans, and society generally, that people are always looking for someone to blame - when more often than not people should a bit closer to home. Perhaps blaming themselves for getting themselves caught along with the hype.

I don't know, I just believe that such negative, anti-establishment opinions are time-wastingly pointless.

I am with you 100% on the blame culture, it's getting worse and worse in this country.

At the same time, Levy and Redknapp earn a hell of a lot of money and have to be accountable when they make mistakes, in the same way that they should be praised when they do well - it's pretty obvious that mistakes have been made or we have just had one incredible run of awful, awful luck. I also don't subscribe to this theory that it's that difficult to improve our striking options. I just don't think Redknapp has the imagination to look beyond players he knows or superstars who are known by everyone and out of our reach.

 

[Hoowl]

Here is a quick list of players that I think are better/more suitable than what we have;

Zomora
Odemwingie (sp?)
Cole
Doyle
Gyan

None of those clubs will really want to sell and if they do they'll set us back £10m+. For £10m, how much are any of those players really going to improve us?

 

[jimbo]

I think my point is, and always has been, that there's not necessarily anyone to 'blame'.

And I think it's a terrible indictment of football fans, and society generally, that people are always looking for someone to blame - when more often than not people should a bit closer to home. Perhaps blaming themselves for getting themselves caught along with the hype.

I don't know, I just believe that such negative, anti-establishment opinions are time-wastingly pointless.

Apart from your reluctance to BURN THE ESTABLISHMENT, I agree with you. I would also add that modern culture is increasingly neophile. I reckon if Pavlyuchenko was playing elsewhere and we were linked with a transfer people would be clamouring for us to sign him. New for the sake of new isn't necessarily best, I don't see the likes of Zamora, Odemwingie, Gyan or Cole as improvement on our current lot. (Sorry WalworthYid.)

 

[McFlash]

I think my point is, and always has been, that there's not necessarily anyone to 'blame'.

And I think it's a terrible indictment of football fans, and society generally, that people are always looking for someone to blame - when more often than not people should a bit closer to home. Perhaps blaming themselves for getting themselves caught along with the hype.

I don't know, I just believe that such negative, anti-establishment opinions are time-wastingly pointless.

I think that Stoof's point, that some are missing, is that none of us KNOW what's going on but that we can only assume that we are trying to improve as best we can.

Innocent until proven guilty - so let's not act on the presumption that lessons haven't been leant from previous windows, at least until the end of this one.

Arguing otherwise is a pointless waste of time and energy in the meantime.

 

[Paolo10]

If you had a target set a year ago that your team didn't reach and it cost your company millions, someone would get sacked. In any line of work.

Fact is, this striker is crucial to the future of the club and someone is fucking it up! I will happily eat my words if we bring someone with real quality in, but it doesn't bode well at the moment and all your excuses won't matter when the players start queuing up to jump ship. Luka will obviously be first... Carrick and Berbatov leaving completely fucked us, I can only imagine what will happen if/when Luka leaves.

 

[Real_madyidd]

When on form Cole, Doyle and Zomora would offer us more than Defoe, Crouch or Keane. You could argue whether they are "better" but the fact is that Keane has had his day, Crouch is shockingly poor and Defoe is as limited as it is possible to get.

Sorry but that is just stupid. you say "when on form" about non Spurs players but not about the Spurs players. An on Form Defoe is better than any of them - so is an on form Keane, they just haven't been on form for ages (neither has Zomora or Cole)

 

[talkshowhost86]

I am with you 100% on the blame culture, it's getting worse and worse in this country.

At the same time, Levy and Redknapp earn a hell of a lot of money and have to be accountable when they make mistakes, in the same way that they should be praised when they do well - it's pretty obvious that mistakes have been made or we have just had one incredible run of awful, awful luck. I also don't subscribe to this theory that it's that difficult to improve our striking options. I just don't think Redknapp has the imagination to look beyond players he knows or superstars who are known by everyone and out of our reach.

I think what's annoying is that people seem to be assuming that we're sitting on our arse doing nothing, not even trying to sign a striker. It's clear that's not the case and to level that accusation at either Levy or Redknapp is just ridiculous.

I agree with you about thinking outside the box. I'd like us to find someone like United's Hernandez or Adebayor when Arsenal brought him in. Something that suggests our scouting network isn't just limited to 'established players'.

However I can guarantee that if we signed someone like that, 99% of the whingers on here would still be whinging about us not signing 'an established player'.

I agree that Levy and Redknapp need to be accountable for their mistakes, but the quickness with which some (most) fans seem to forget what they've done for us is both amazing and deeply frustrating. It's the sort of divine right that Chelsea and Man City fans now think they have to be successful and I hate to see it creeping into Spurs.

 

[Mr Pink]

I think what's annoying is that people seem to be assuming that we're sitting on our arse doing nothing, not even trying to sign a striker. It's clear that's not the case and to level that accusation at either Levy or Redknapp is just ridiculous.

I agree with you about thinking outside the box. I'd like us to find someone like United's Hernandez or Adebayor when Arsenal brought him in. Something that suggests our scouting network isn't just limited to 'established players'.

However I can guarantee that if we signed someone like that, 99% of the whingers on here would still be whinging about us not signing 'an established player'.

I agree that Levy and Redknapp need to be accountable for their mistakes, but the quickness with which some (most) fans seem to forget what they've done for us is both amazing and deeply frustrating. It's the sort of divine right that Chelsea and Man City fans now think they have to be successful and I hate to see it creeping into Spurs.

Good post, well reasoned.

 

[CAS_GG]

I think my point is, and always has been, that there's not necessarily anyone to 'blame'.

And I think it's a terrible indictment of football fans, and society generally, that people are always looking for someone to blame - when more often than not people should a bit closer to home. Perhaps blaming themselves for getting themselves caught along with the hype.

I don't know, I just believe that such negative, anti-establishment opinions are time-wastingly pointless.

Stoof

1 question, say we don't sign a striker this window and keep the 4/5 we have and fall short again by coming 5th or 6th missing out on top 4 by say the same 6/7 points that a better striker could have bought us. How would you feel then when Bale, VDV, Sandro and Modric all had in transfer request next Summer due to lack of CL football?

I know how poor we were in the 90's, christ I've been going since the late 60's but this is our best chance since the PL started to actually making a claim to be a regular in the Top 4 and we are not making the kind of signings we need to be there. This is the 3rd window we have had chances to improve our strikers or over 12 months, what do our scouting/management do during this time. Deals should be sorted long before the window opens and just rubber stamping should be all we need do.

But our Club has failed to do this (so far), so surely you can understand the frustration some have and the bottom line is the buck has to stop at either Levy or Arry for failing to do this. Be it wages or transfer fees, it is time to gamble as the loss of CL revenue (£40m) has cost us more and if a fee of £30m was needed last Summer and £100k a week then it would have been self financing to get back into CL football. But the lose of points against the likes of Wigan/West Ham/Bolton/Blackpool where a better striker should have seen us pick up the additional 7 points needed last season to get CL football again.

Call it blame society or whatever but surely you can see how frustrating it is.

 

[Stoof]

I can only imagine what will happen if/when Luka leaves.

We improve a little bit more, which happened each time both of those left?

I don't remember any Champions League football with either Carrick or Berbatov?

We get on with it, we prevail.

Stop being so bloody negative. We're still in single digits August. Ideal world: we signed 3 new strikers and cleared our supposed ""deadwood"" (eugh, what a phrase) by 30 June and they had a full pre-season with us. It didn't happen. Get over it. Moaning about it not happening doesn't change anything.

I'm sorry this is coming out against you, Paolo10, you're by no means the worst. But I've had it up to here (*points over head*) with the ridiculous, unfounded negativity - and it's just come out in a nasty, unexpected explosion, as it has a happenstance of happening.

Fair enough, judge them by their deeds as after the final whistle has been blown. But to ignore the period when most clubs do their business (i.e. the last fortnight in August) is like saying that if we're 1-0 down after 20 minutes there's no way we can win the game.

Patience. Please!!