Spurs and VAR

[cwy21]

The PL and PGMOL are looking even more stupid for rejecting the semi automated offside VAR that was used at the men's and women's World Cup.

Serie A introduced it in January last year after a similar type of error occurred. Could the same happen here? And it was entirely the clubs that voted against it and not PGMOL.

 

[nidge]

Serie A introduced it in January last year after a similar type of error occurred. Could the same happen here? And it was entirely the clubs that voted against it and not PGMOL.

Here's hoping they introduce it because it is badly needed.

Can't understand why the PL clubs would vote against a system that has proved to be successful at the World Cups.

 

[Verloc]

Sorry, not sorry.

 

[cwy21]

Here's hoping they introduce it because it is badly needed.

Can't understand why the PL clubs would vote against a system that has proved to be successful at the World Cups.

I assume because they didn't want the situations where the technology shows the player offside by a millimeter or two.

 

[parj]

I don't care. Its about time we benefited

 

[mil1lion]

VAR shouldn't get involved for the offside. Once the flag goes up you create a situation where a player can have a slight reaction to it. I'm not saying that happened but you have to keep the flag down. Its a bad decision from the linesman but once he flags it has to be given without VAR. Its up to the officials to let play go on during close situations and then allow VAR to intervene after. It's frustrating because there are times where a player is clearly offside and the flag stays down. Then you have these ones where its close and it goes up. They should be used to VAR by now.

 

[Tucker]

VAR shouldn't get involved for the offside. Once the flag goes up you create a situation where a player can have a slight reaction to it. I'm not saying that happened but you have to keep the flag down. Its a bad decision from the linesman but once he flags it has to be given without VAR. Its up to the officials to let play go on during close situations and then allow VAR to intervene after. It's frustrating because there are times where a player is clearly offside and the flag stays down. Then you have these ones where its close and it goes up. They should be used to VAR by now.

Did the flag go up before the goal went in? I couldn’t tell from the coverage.

 

[Cochise]

Big big fuck up.

At the same time, there's at least continuity with the Jones red card. A lot of people are going ape about it, but they've applied the same rule to him that they did to many others this year and the last. It doesn't matter about the intent or how accidental it was, he endangered Bissouma with the height he went into him.

Also hearing "but he touched the ball". We've seen this many times, where the momentum of the player takes them over it and they make contact mid shin. I'm convinced that had the roles been reversed Neville and the rest of the scousers would have called it fair.

 

[Yiddo100]

Did the flag go up before the goal went in? I couldn’t tell from the coverage.

No, after the goal I think

 

[mil1lion]

Did the flag go up before the goal went in? I couldn’t tell from the coverage.

It was up when he turned after the goal is all you can see from the footage. I'm not sure if this instance impacted our defending, probably not. The point is though the linesman already made the decision when he shouldn't. Once the flag is up in play then VAR can't intervene.

 

[Yiddo100]

Lol so it appears the VAR thought that a goal was given as the on field decision

 

[nidge]

Lol so it appears the VAR thought that a goal was given as the on field decision

That's just mind boggling. How the fuck did they miss it being flagged as offside?

And once the freekick for the "offside" is taken they can't then go back and change the decision.

 

[mano-obe]

Pigmol didn't apologise to us last season when Jota kung fu kicked Skipp and made him bleed, then proceeded to score the winner for Liverpool. That for me was worse than what happened today. I don't know why certain clubs get apologies and we don't.

Last week Vicarios leg was almost broken and not a pip squeak. Lo Celso got stamped on the head one game too and VAR looked and gave fuck all lol

 

[cwy21]

Lol so it appears the VAR thought that a goal was given as the on field decision

So this actually makes it worse not only for the VAR and AVAR but the entire ref team. The assistant ref should have made it clear they had a delayed offside by saying some version of "delay delay delay" and then "offside offside offside" after the goal was scored. The ref should be confirming to the VAR that the on field decision was offside. The assistant VAR who is supposed to continue to watch live play should be seeing the usual signs of offside (attacker no celebrating, TV pictures showing the AR with the flag up, etc...). And while yes this was onside the VAR considered it so clearly onside that he didn't draw the lines.

I can't begin to state how much this shines a bad light on the entire VAR process in England since the program started. They don't have the basics of communication down after five years. Any one who has experience using a communication system knows how easily things can get lost. That's why you don't say things like "no foul" or "off red" because the first word can get missed.

Whenever they've released clips of VAR decisions in the Premier League, one of the things I've noticed was how informal communications were compared to other leagues and this has now caused a huge error to occur. Anyone who has any piloting experience knows how formal your language is with ATC and it's for good reason. It reduces the risk of errors that can happen on a radio.

Thanks for listening to my rant. I can't believe this actually was worse than just not realizing who the last defender was.

 

[allatsea]

I saw that and was so deflated because it was onside. When they gave it as offside, I was so happy, but I knew there must have been a cock up! The pictures they showed were of Diaz in an onside position.

The first red, for me, was a red card, but it was unlucky. I don't think the intent was there, just unfortunate, as it was a leg-breaker.

I get the second red, as Jota's first yellow wasn't a yellow card for me. His knee clipped the back of Udogie's foot when he was running not sure how that was intentional. The second yellow, he can't argue about.

The thing is, you win and lose some with VAR and the refs these days. I would love for some consistency as it ruins the game too much

Can't agree about Jota. As soon as he came on he was rushing around fouling Spurs players. He got what he deserved.

 

[Pistols At Dawn]

Here’s my thought tree on this one:

1) Diaz was onside.
2) I don’t care why VAR got it wrong, but they did.
3) This is the ONLY controversial call of the game, the red cards were well deserved in both cases. Jota in particular can have no complaint, a habitual offender.
4) Spurs have been f*cked by terrible VAR decisions over and over (even against the dippers!), Liverpool is no victim.
5) VAR should be reformed or abolished, but in the end bad calls exist and normalize over time, even when checked and rechecked — and I will lose zero sleep when dipper supporters melt down for the next week or so (as they have no lives), since it could’ve just as easily been us on the short end — and will again very soon.
6) A draw would’ve been fair. But ‘pool did NOT deserve to win. A Spurs win isn’t a radically unfair outcome.
7) I’m loving Big Ange instead.

 

[spurs9]

 

[Fergus]

Barney Ronay sums up the current state of VAR brilliantly in the Guardian:

"These are professionally trained officials unable to manipulate their own technology, and to make a correct, very obvious call on one of the few things that always happens in every game. It doesn’t have to be like this. Imagine if these people were in charge of air traffic control."

 

[Westmorlandspur]

So this actually makes it worse not only for the VAR and AVAR but the entire ref team. The assistant ref should have made it clear they had a delayed offside by saying some version of "delay delay delay" and then "offside offside offside" after the goal was scored. The ref should be confirming to the VAR that the on field decision was offside. The assistant VAR who is supposed to continue to watch live play should be seeing the usual signs of offside (attacker no celebrating, TV pictures showing the AR with the flag up, etc...). And while yes this was onside the VAR considered it so clearly onside that he didn't draw the lines.

I can't begin to state how much this shines a bad light on the entire VAR process in England since the program started. They don't have the basics of communication down after five years. Any one who has experience using a communication system knows how easily things can get lost. That's why you don't say things like "no foul" or "off red" because the first word can get missed.

Whenever they've released clips of VAR decisions in the Premier League, one of the things I've noticed was how informal communications were compared to other leagues and this has now caused a huge error to occur. Anyone who has any piloting experience knows how formal your language is with ATC and it's for good reason. It reduces the risk of errors that can happen on a radio.

Thanks for listening to my rant. I can't believe this actually was worse than just not realizing who the last defender was.

To simplify it….every goal is checked ….normally they have a fine tooth comb out to find some possible reason to disallow it. Why they didn’t this time, only Darren England will know.
Klopp being very diplomatic for a change. Wonder if he thinks one of the red cards gets rescinded.
no evidence to do so but who knows

 

[fecka]

Am I the only one who feels the inconsistent ”apologies” from the PGMOL have made things even worse?
I can’t remember a season with so many high-profile mistakes as this one.

Maybe, just maybe it’s the same with referees as players that continually pointing out mistakes and not receiving backing from your employer can increase the amount of mistakes? Either that or the processes for VAR and the modern rules are so flawed they can’t do their job properly.