Spurs coach: Holding midfielders are overrated - just look at Man City

[spurs-r-us]

All I know is that managerial instability never, ever works for us. Sherwood is the man at the moment, he has got some decent results. Every manager has to start somewhere, it's not ideal that that is here but he's doing okay. I stand by him.

 

[spurs-r-us]

Oh yeah, who was that?

And who said anything about "garaunteed"?

Jacques Santini, Juande Ramos and Andre Villas-Boas are a couple in the last decade.

 

[spurs-r-us]

The strength of his philosophy and the no nonsense aspect to him make him ideal for us.

We need zero tolerance of mediocrity here and he will bring that.

It's all about chemistry and I'm convinced he'd be a great fit for us at this point in time.

We need the the sort of drive in direction he would bring to us: coherence, cohesion, flexibility, resilience, endeavour, commitment, determination etc. etc. etc.

He's got the right package for us...and he''d probably show it to the lads on the first day.

Sounds crazy, but when I think of how TS has conducted himself since he got the job - the only one of those words missing is flexibility. But that's because he's had a month with the squad. I'm sure Capoue and Lamela are good enough to change his mind. His mind shouldn't need to be changed, and in an ideal world he wouldn't have been hired, but he's here and he will learn through experience if we give him the required amount of time. We need to live by the sword this time, the constant shifting of managers after a bad patch has left us with one trophy from the shittest of them all.

 

[mill]

He's 62 y.o. now - he was good in the 90's. Its a younger mans game now.
If some are hell bent on ousting Tim for whatever reason - his successor must have at least have the potential to stay for more than a couple of years. All these old(er) guys want (including me) is a pay packet and an easy life, its why many are international managers like LvG.

If we dont care about length of tenure, get Harry back. If he's not made England manager after Brazil.

Young mans game eh? Who was the manager of the team that won the cl last season?

 

[CheeseGromit]

The whole thread has somewhat morphed into the merits of a manager when the original op was about defensive midfield players

As many have said before in the thread it is about the team tactic and whether a DM is called for Sir Les is basically wrong in suggesting that a DM is only defensive role but it depends on the others around them The prem teams suggest that getting players to fall back far enough to be in front of their own back four and goal side of the opposition midfield is a tactic that works. How that is set up depends on the players capability to get into that position

Other tactics for example like closing down from the front and engaging the opposition in their half has increased in popularity. In adopting this approach the necessity for players to just in front of the back 4 is reduced however it is important that the opposition midfield is also closed down reducing the opportunity to play out by the opposition.

DM's only become a talking point when considered in the overall approach of the team and the style of play

 

[tiger666]

Yeah yeah thread necro. Neg away. This came up last year and started up a tirade of abuse aimed at Ferdinand and Sherwood and how they apparently didn't believe in using a defensive mid.

Week after week our midfield of Mason and Nabil is getting torn apart. Why isn't Poch getting the same abuse for his apparent lack of belief in a true defensive mid?

 

[beats1]

Yeah yeah thread necro. Neg away. This came up last year and started up a tirade of abuse aimed at Ferdinand and Sherwood and how they apparently didn't believe in using a defensive mid.

Week after week our midfield of Mason and Nabil is getting torn apart. Why isn't Poch getting the same abuse for his apparent lack of belief in a true defensive mid?

This is a silly question

Its because he has a philosophy

 

[Blackcanary]

Yeah yeah thread necro. Neg away. This came up last year and started up a tirade of abuse aimed at Ferdinand and Sherwood and how they apparently didn't believe in using a defensive mid.

Week after week our midfield of Mason and Nabil is getting torn apart. Why isn't Poch getting the same abuse for his apparent lack of belief in a true defensive mid?

He is. Or is starting to, at least. Given our defensive ineptitude, it's baffling he won't play a DM or switch to a 4-3-3 to give us more solidity and cover.

 

[Syn_13]

He is. Or is starting to, at least. Given our defensive ineptitude, it's baffling he won't play a DM or switch to a 4-3-3 to give us more solidity and cover.

He didn't have that with Southampton, since Schneiderlin was more than just a tackler, and I'm guessing he's trying to emulate that here. He clearly wants his centre mids to get involved with everything, which to be fair is similar to what Tim had said.

Personally, I think most teams need a designated fucker upper. Only the best could get away with not having a dedicated DM, and that's mainly because they'll tend to have 3 in the middle, so there's plenty of cover.

 

[whitesocks]

He didn't have that with Southampton, since Schneiderlin was more than just a tackler, and I'm guessing he's trying to emulate that here. He clearly wants his centre mids to get involved with everything, which to be fair is similar to what Tim had said.

Personally, I think most teams need a designated fucker upper. Only the best could get away with not having a dedicated DM, and that's mainly because they'll tend to have 3 in the middle, so there's plenty of cover.

I believe thinktank mentioned it most recently, but I agree that Vertonghen could play this fucker upper role. Plus he can comfortably carry the ball.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Yeah yeah thread necro. Neg away. This came up last year and started up a tirade of abuse aimed at Ferdinand and Sherwood and how they apparently didn't believe in using a defensive mid.

Week after week our midfield of Mason and Nabil is getting torn apart. Why isn't Poch getting the same abuse for his apparent lack of belief in a true defensive mid?

Bentaleb is decent. Mason runs around a lot but offers fuck all else. Put a decent partner with Bentaleb and this would be a instant improvement.

 

[stemark44]

He is. Or is starting to, at least. Given our defensive ineptitude, it's baffling he won't play a DM or switch to a 4-3-3 to give us more solidity and cover.

Plenty of fans called Sherwood 'Dim Tim' for it,should we now call him..'Botch-it Pochet

 

[Locotoro]

Let's not forget that our attack not exactly free scoring. If you add another man to the middle youre taking one out of the final 3rd.

Our midfielders are hardly known for getting behibd the opposition or getting beyond the front man. May sound simple but how often are we seeing Mason and Bentaleb go beyond the forwards in attack? Hardly ever. Chadli and Lamela do it not near to enough anyway so add another to the mix and you are blunting your attacking options with this group of players

 

[JAYSTAR]

I just commented on the match thread before realising this thread had been commented on and bumped. So I'll say it again. Sherwood, Ferdy and Poch do not know better than Mourinho, Wenger and Pellegrini. They all know that with a 4231 systems, their wing backs are only really free to overlap if a cdm will fill in for them and protect the back four.
It's pure arrogance to think your team won't need one in this system.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

I just commented on the match thread before realising this thread had been commented on and bumped. So I'll say it again. Sherwood, Ferdy and Poch do not know better than Mourinho, Wenger and Pellegrini. They all know that with a 4231 systems, their wing backs are only really free to overlap if a cdm will fill in for them and protect the back four.
It's pure arrogance to think your team won't need one in this system.

It is interesting that managers like poch and tim don't rate dms, yet mourinho signed matic, lvg signed blind, and coquelin has had a good season for Wenger.

 

[Japhet]

Bentaleb is decent. Mason runs around a lot but offers fuck all else. Put a decent partner with Bentaleb and this would be a instant improvement.

To play 2 in CM they both need to be outstanding players with all round ability. IMO, Mason definitely isn't good enough and Bentaleb is neither offensive or defensive enough to play the system. A proper defensive midfielder in there with them would solve the problem, but as it stands in this system neither of them is up to the job.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Yeah yeah thread necro. Neg away. This came up last year and started up a tirade of abuse aimed at Ferdinand and Sherwood and how they apparently didn't believe in using a defensive mid.

Week after week our midfield of Mason and Nabil is getting torn apart. Why isn't Poch getting the same abuse for his apparent lack of belief in a true defensive mid?

I think he does believe in a DM, but doesn't think Stambouli or Capoue are any better than Mason or Bentaleb, so he doesn't play them.

He played Wanyama and Schneiderlin together at Southampton as well.

 

[shelfmonkey]

If, as has been said, Mason is not a DM, then I have to ask why he's playing as one of a DM pairing!! I don't understand why we have to have 2 dms any way, as long as Bentaleb is disciplined enough to play that holding role and drop when one of the two fullbacks push forward then there's no reason for Mason to hold back, he should be the one running beyond the midfimidfield, splitting fullbacks and centrebacks allowing our advanced fullback or one of the three AMs to to push wide, we so obviously lack width and penetration it's laughable, it makes me wonder why Poch can't see this, having 2 DMs is so frustratingly limiting!!!!

 

[DJS]

Wanyama is a proper defensive midfielder and did the job for Southampton during his time.

I would hope next season Bentaleb will be partnered with a more physical tackling player (box to box or defensive midfielder, either is fine as long as they like to get stuck in).

One of the most effective midfield combos we've had in recent seasons was Palacios and (shock horror oh no he DIDN'T!!) Jenas as they were both quite athletic and didn't mind getting stuck in.

They compliemted each other and just ran their socks off, Jenas really benefitted from having Palacios alongside him rather than some of the dross he was forced to partner in his time with us.

Mason probably needs to partner a defensive player or maybe play further up in no.10 role.

 

[Ribble]

The only player we have that's really a DM is Capoue, and he's seemingly got himself ostracised somehow.

Don't forget when Mason was doing well he was clocking up some really good defensive stats, though. He's definitely dropped off and needs to recover but there's not much behind him to pick up the slack.


This discussion is just making me sad about Sandro again. Should have been dominating our midfield for years to come. Stupid injuries