Spurs under 21, under 18 Leagues and other youth news

[kazzah9]

Wonder if any of them could do a job up front

 

[littlemandefoe]

What?

as in they're good. They're all chocolate which means they're all good. The keeper diving all over the place... I can't do that if I were paid too.

 

[RickyVilla]

as in they're good. They're all chocolate which means they're all good. The keeper diving all over the place... I can't do that if I were paid too.

Sorry mate. I don't speak public school boy Malaysian!

 

[nightgoat]

Yup, apparantly we are now taking it seriously and practising taking penalties at an early age - penalty shoot out vid against Atlanta

A lot of good, confident penalties there. I love how our keeper runs out after the save thinking he's won it only to be sent back for our last kick.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Spurs have been awarded the Category 1 status for its Academy which requires it to spend a minimum of £2.5m pa on its operations (wages and the like) and employ at least 18 staff. Spurs have over 200 players in its academy and there are almost 40 staff listed on Spurs Academy page http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/spurs/Academy/about-the-academy.page? which suggests to me that Spurs are spending £3m + on the academy. After the academy there are over 2 dozen players classed as professionals (Carroll, Towndsend, Falqyue, Coulibaly, Pritchard to name a few) plus their coaches etc - assuming that each player is on £40k pa then the wage bill for the professionals and coaches will be £1m + pa

So it total probably £4m + pa spent by Spurs on the youth set up.

Levy is a business man and will be expecting a return from that annual spend. Although ManU were trying to sell Fryers for £6m, I expect most would have been surprised at a fee of more than £2m to £3m.

On that basis Levy's business plan for the youth set up is probably to get one or two players moving froim the youth sert up to the first team squad every year, with those not making it being sold on foir fees probably varying from £100k to £1m for the better ones and others just being released. Most of course will be 'squad' players with a few becoming stars - Caulker might be the best candidate currently to become the regular starter in due course.

That does not mean that every player joining the first team stays fior their career, some mau join but move on after a couple of years because there are better youngsters coming up from the academy. Levy's model is Barca where earlier this year they put out a team composed 100% of players brought tyhrough their academy with one or two being bought and polished (like we did with Walker).

There are plenty of good candidates coming through the system - the only question is whether Spurs can get them the experience to move into the first team as the bar has become ever higher. As an example, Adam Smith has had a very good half season loan at Millwall (as did Townsend a couple of seassons ago) but unless he gets a Premiership loan he may struggle to get the experience he needs sittiing on a Spurs bench. But if the players do not come through intoi the first team , expect Levy to be asking questions

Good post. I really believe strongly that we need to do this. That is start using the younger players more and sooner. Certainly this crop, which are IMO as good a crop as I've seen us produce as a group with one or two really promising individuals.

 

[Snarfalicious]

A lot of good, confident penalties there. I love how our keeper runs out after the save thinking he's won it only to be sent back for our last kick.

First of all, #6 looked massive for us.

And second, is #8 okay? They showed him I think twice and both times he was laying on the ground in what looked like serious pain.

 

[beats1]

I am not sure at all that AVB coming in has had a negative impact on the youth players.

The fact is that AVB came in as did several players, with three top players departing, for whatever reason - that is the very definition of a transition period. On top of that we had a lengthy injury list - and of 1st team players. This should be seen in the context of AVB's Chelsea debacle - he was very aware, as has been made abundantly clear in his latest interview, that results couldn't be ignored on the basis that he was working on a long-term project. When seen in this light, is it really any surprise that he didn't just shove in a bunch of youth players that he knew nothing about?

I don't believe this effects the long term at all: DL has placed a tremendous amount of emphasis on the youth set-up and a major increase in the value and quantity of the youth product - in terms of time, effort and, most importantly (from DL's perspective ), money, into this. I really can't see him not having discussed it at length with AVB. And I really don't believe AVB has zero interest in promoting from the youth just because he was patently aware of the immediacy of results. I will ask again, exactly how much would he have known of these youth players at the start of the season? His first task, surely, would have been to get to know his 1st team squad. And with so many 1st team players out injured, surely, he would have needed to have maximised every little of experience and ability from those that remained - not push a bunch of inexperienced kids, that he hardly knew, to the fore. Even in cup games, if he is trying to inculcate a winning mentality into the club, surely the last thing he (or anyone else, for that matter) would have wanted to do was chuck some kids in, at very serious risk of elimination, maintain the mythos of inconsistency and exciting nearly men, or run the serious risk of harming the kids' development (any one, or all). It is one of the things 'Arry did very well - with the whole BS of the curse of Gareth Bale hanging around, he waited until we had a game sewn up, and beyond throwing away, before giving the lad his run-out - rather than chucking him into a United at OT maelstrom for his first appearance under a new manager, which could have been a disaster.

While I agree with you are saying, AVB hasnt helped by saying the youth prospects are very good and then not deciding not play, i.e. Falque is pushing for place, Townsend will have to fight Lennon and Bale for a place and then later to deciding to play Dempsey or Sig there, who looked shit there until they came in to the middle of the pitch

Likewise, there's not much I would disagree with here.

RE THudd/Carroll, however: Anyone who shares an interest in the youth set-up (no, Obscene, put it away, put it away ), and reads these forums, may recall that I have been going on about Tommy Carroll for the last couple of years. I want to see him on the pitch, I want to see him getting the chance to develop. I'm not disagreeing. I am just trying to see it from AVB's point of and, as said above, maybe he just feels ATM, especially with the injury list we had and the loss of 3 top players/the arrival of 5 new players, that he wanted to maximise the experience he had leeft in the squad, and that includes THudd, whatever continuity there was left, and, maybe, just feels that this is what he needed at that precise point in time to help inculcate an attitude change to one where we believe we have a serious chance in every competition and will not let any of them slip easily.

To be fair if Tom Carroll doesnt start playing he is going to regress and will end up going back in to the championship, at his age he needs to play games and learn his trade, that is clearly

@ Bofrok - Wow, do peoples really live to be that old? You must know Alex Beetroot Head Ferguson!

@ SpursIdol:

SI, buddy, I know everything you have said here, and haven't disagreed with must of it.
I am happy to defer on your knowledge of individual players, usually, but I think you are kinda missing the point I am making here. I'm not inviting a big, elaborate argument about the route from Development Squad (and the <FACT> of creating a Development Squad should speak volumes about the direction the club is moving). I am making a simple point: Some folk imagine there is some kind of perfection in youth set-up and development that isn't being attained, and the failure to attain this impossible goal is some kind of proof of gross ineptitude on the part of the club. I just do not buy that. Could the club do better? Yeah, of course they could. I am sure you could do better in every aspect of your life, as could I (well, actually, I couldn't as I'm fecking PERFECT! ). Should the club do better? Yeah, probably. Do I hope the club will do better? yeah, of course I do...and, as I keep on emphasising, you can better your bottom dollar that Daniel Levy does, too! Do I expect the club to do better (and does Daniel Levy)? See former answer.

Do I believe we can analyse AVB's record in this respect, ignoring all the extraneous factors that he has had to cope with? Get outta here! Do I believe that every single loan arranged has to go absolutely fandabby swimmingly perfectly? Get outta here! Do I believe some loans not going perfectly is proof positive of gross uselessness on the part of the club? Get outta here!

I am stating the case forcefully, and I know you personally may have never taken your critique to this Nth degree (I do read other posts and other threads, and wasn't making the point specifically to you, y'know ). I have made a point of stataing that I know it hasn't been perfect, and I would personally have preferred to have seen a few things go differently (see THudd/Tommy Carroll, for instance). But I am at least able to envisage circumstances that mitigate against major disappointment. As said, above, AVB was coming into a new club, acutely aware that results must not slip too badly while he implemented his project, with three major players leaving, five newbies arriving, and an extensive injury list - to which we should also add to the list the departure of Inglethorpe. It is very easy for us keyboard warriors to say he should have played Carroll instead of THudd, or he should find a place for the Pritch on his bench - but we ain't suffering the consequences of possible failure, and we don't see in depth performance in training, etc.

It also seems to me that folk are focussing on AVB on this when a lot of the responsibility (and I mean that in the neutral sense) is in Tim Sherwood's hands. He was conspicuously promoted when, by-and-large, the Redknapp regime was dismissed, and I am absolutely 100% sure that if Dan Levy (who will be watching these developments with a keener eye than ours) suspects that his money is being wasted, and a major part of his strategic vision for the club undermined, he will wield the Sherwood's head removing axe quick sharpish.

You and eye show a keen interest on this, but a lot of folk are making a hell of a lot out of a little information IMHO. It is true, for instance, that the Lluongo loan, that was going very well (suggestive that at the time of arranging the loan, it was a good move and therefore those responsible actually did their job well and not otherwise) - but wasn't that something to do with a change of management at Ipswich? And, if so, how on earth could those responsible at our end have known that when they loan was arranged?

I also think there is way too much being made of Pritch-Gate. We know virtually nothing ATM, other than some contradictory ITK. He may well leave, but he may have made his mind up a long time ago, and it may be little to do with being included in the 1st team squad. And even if it is, our management and coaching staff see the kid in training, we don't. Would they really be the first such to not believe a player is ready for a step up, which upsets the player who disagrees? And would that necessarily make them wrong?

Like I said, I just think a lot of folk are making way too much out of a very little information and failing to contextualise it. Me, I will wait until this time next year before making a decision one way or the other on how the AVB regime is handling the youth set-up, and integrating youth players in the full squad (if any said youth players are good enough). After all, he seems to be doing reasonably well on the whole.

Just a personal opinion, bro...like I said, on the whole I'm more than happy to defer to your knowledge of youthful happenings

While I agree with what you are saying give time but I think we may lose the best prospect we have ever had in the PL in Mason who has consistency performed better than any of our prospect in the same position including carroll at any level minus the first team since he has never had a chance. I am big carroll fan but losing Mason would be blow imo both mentally(message it will send to others) as well as the fact that we are losing a talented player. As for Pritchard he is having a great season but agree with you as he needs to prove away from spurs as well as in the youth game

I also agree about the Luongo loan but that just part of the game and we could loan him out as soon as he came back if we wanted to as the loan window was still open.

As for Sherwood I dont think he will get axe, as I know for a FACT he has had a good relationship with Levy PRIOR to him being a coach with us and is held in high regard. Also it doesnt help the youth development when the Sherwood the technical director is banned from training according to ITK. That means either our top youth aren't training with the first team or Sherwood isn't allowed to do his job. When Redknapp was in charge he promoted Tom Carroll during his League 1 season to train with the first team after he impressed during the youth games, and TC was saying it was unbelievable from going training with the O's from wednesday to Friday then training with VDV and Modric on Tuesday the next week was insane(Monday was normally match day for loanees and working with coaches just for the youth iirc). Now if Mason, Falque and Townsend aren't training with the first team whilst they work in the development squad, it may explain why AVB doesnt play them much or know them well, this is all hypothetical of course(the last line)

 

[Misfit]

Spurs have been awarded the Category 1 status for its Academy which requires it to spend a minimum of £2.5m pa on its operations (wages and the like) and employ at least 18 staff. Spurs have over 200 players in its academy and there are almost 40 staff listed on Spurs Academy page http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/spurs/Academy/about-the-academy.page? which suggests to me that Spurs are spending £3m + on the academy. After the academy there are over 2 dozen players classed as professionals (Carroll, Towndsend, Falqyue, Coulibaly, Pritchard to name a few) plus their coaches etc - assuming that each player is on £40k pa then the wage bill for the professionals and coaches will be £1m + pa

So it total probably £4m + pa spent by Spurs on the youth set up.

Levy is a business man and will be expecting a return from that annual spend. Although ManU were trying to sell Fryers for £6m, I expect most would have been surprised at a fee of more than £2m to £3m.

On that basis Levy's business plan for the youth set up is probably to get one or two players moving froim the youth sert up to the first team squad every year, with those not making it being sold on foir fees probably varying from £100k to £1m for the better ones and others just being released. Most of course will be 'squad' players with a few becoming stars - Caulker might be the best candidate currently to become the regular starter in due course.

That does not mean that every player joining the first team stays fior their career, some mau join but move on after a couple of years because there are better youngsters coming up from the academy. Levy's model is Barca where earlier this year they put out a team composed 100% of players brought tyhrough their academy with one or two being bought and polished (like we did with Walker).

There are plenty of good candidates coming through the system - the only question is whether Spurs can get them the experience to move into the first team as the bar has become ever higher. As an example, Adam Smith has had a very good half season loan at Millwall (as did Townsend a couple of seassons ago) but unless he gets a Premiership loan he may struggle to get the experience he needs sittiing on a Spurs bench. But if the players do not come through intoi the first team , expect Levy to be asking questions

Great post mate. Love reading your stuff on our youth set-up. I also posted, a rather ham-fisted and lightweight musing, on this general subject a few days ago. I'm glad I wasn't horribly overestimating the direction our youth setup should be beginning to head in sooner than later.

Hopefully we can bag someone like Shaw to compete as a LB, along with Fryers. Walker and Naughton as RBs. Also, I really do hope we retain Carroll and Townsend as squad players, if they can't get loan moves, and actually bleeding well play them when inuries require it.

Going forward, you'd hope we can replace those players we sell, who are taking up a staggering amount of resources when viewed with the value they give, with the likes of Pritchard, Coulthirst etc over the next few seasons as squad players initially.

I realise that most of our next gen squad won't see the light of day with us, or maybe even other clubs in the top flights of Europe for various reasons but we should start to bring in a couple a season through soonish if our yoof policy and work is to give us any value. If they don't make a case for inclusions in future squads, then fine. The next couple get a go the season after etc.

We don't quite have the squad thing down imo. Squad players come and go. Having a high turnover in those players is no bad thing. Having 4 or 5 waddle around the training ground yr after yr seeing virtually no playing time and taking millions in wages throughout is a bad thing and I think it's actually beginning to impinge upon our transfer activity now. We're well run but not perfect.

 

[Spursidol]

Great post mate. Love reading your stuff on our youth set-up. I also posted, a rather ham-fisted and lightweight musing, on this general subject a few days ago. I'm glad I wasn't horribly overestimating the direction our youth setup should be beginning to head in sooner than later

'Hopefully we can bag someone like Shaw to compete as a LB, along with Fryers. Walker and Naughton as RBs. Also, I really do hope we retain Carroll and Townsend as squad players, if they can't get loan moves, and actually bleeding well play them when inuries require it.

Going forward, you'd hope we can replace those players we sell, who are taking up a staggering amount of resources when viewed with the value they give, with the likes of Pritchard, Coulthirst etc over the next few seasons as squad players initially.

I realise that most of our next gen squad won't see the light of day with us, or maybe even other clubs in the top flights of Europe for various reasons but we should start to bring in a couple a season through soonish if our yoof policy and work is to give us any value. If they don't make a case for inclusions in future squads, then fine. The next couple get a go the season after etc.

We don't quite have the squad thing down imo. Squad players come and go. Having a high turnover in those players is no bad thing. Having 4 or 5 waddle around the training ground yr after yr seeing virtually no playing time and taking millions in wages throughout is a bad thing and I think it's actually beginning to impinge upon our transfer activity now. We're well run but not perfect.'​

.

Interesting post.

Looking at our 25 man squad though, we have effectively got rid of some of the surplus squad players on loan and could have replaced them with some of our youngsters – our 25 man Premiership squad in alpha order :

1. Emmanuel Adebayor
2. Benoit Assou-Ekotto
3. Gareth Bale
4. David Bentley – loaned out, logical replacement Andros Townsend
5. Sandro
6. Carlo Cudicini
7. Michael Dawson
8. Jermain Defoe
9. Mousa Dembele
10. Clint Dempsey
11. Iago Falque – rarely played
12. Brad Friedel
13. William Gallas
14. Heurelho Gomes - 4th GK in squad, not played.
15. Tom Huddlestone
16. Jermaine Jenas – loaned out, logical replacement Tom Carroll
17. Younes Kaboul
18. Aaron Lennon
19. Jake Livermore
20. Hugo Lloris
21. Kyle Naughton
22. Scott Parker
23. Gylfi Sigurdsson
24. Jan Vertonghen
25. Kyle Walker

The 25 man squad, once shorn of 4th goalkeeper Gomes and loanees Jenas and Bentley is in fact a 22 man squad - including Iago Falque, generally regarded as part of the development squad and rarely playing so its in effect a 21 man squad that AVB is using.

I have suggested that Andros Townsend and Tom Carroll could be regarded as replacements for loanees Bentley and Jenas , but neither have made that many appearances. Given the shortage of strikers, Gomes place could have effectively been taken by free-scoring Jonathan Obika or AM Ryan Mason but that has not happened either !

So agree with your post – but its not happening much at the moment !

 

[littlemandefoe]

think cudi is now off the list as he's gone. And is it U-21's dont need to be included on the list??

 

[Spursidol]

think cudi is now off the list as he's gone. And is it U-21's dont need to be included on the list??

Both correct - but the point Misfit was making was that rather than having a 25 man squad of over 21's we could have a slightly smaller squad (lets say 22) with a number of u 21's being given some playing time. That way we don't have surplus squad members rarely playing on high wages, but also give some of our best youth somev playing time (perhaops off tye bench initially)

Before you think that's mad, AVB has used 21 over 21 players plus Falque on a couple of occasions, and that despite the injuries we have had so far.........

 

[Spursidol]

Spurs u 13's were runners up in the Riga Cup. losing 1-0 in the final.
“Riga Cup” U-13 best players:

The best goalkeeper: Igor Beljaev (СДЮСШОР Зенит)
The best defender: Dan Novickiy (СДЮСШОР Зенит)
The best midfielder: Andreas Mjos (FK Fyllingsdalen)
The best forward: Losa Giorgio (Atalanta)
The best player: Timothy Joel Eyoma (Tottenham)

 

[Spursidol]

Tottenham Hotspur ‏@SpursOfficial
Our U-21 match away vs WBA has been postponed until March 25 after the snowy weather

 

[spudtrader]

Spurs u 13's were runners up in the Riga Cup. losing 1-0 in the final.
“Riga Cup” U-13 best players:

The best goalkeeper: Igor Beljaev (СДЮСШОР Зенит)
The best defender: Dan Novickiy (СДЮСШОР Зенит)
The best midfielder: Andreas Mjos (FK Fyllingsdalen)
The best forward: Losa Giorgio (Atalanta)
The best player: Timothy Joel Eyoma (Tottenham)

I wonder where he played?

On a separate note, if carroll cant get a game in against Leeds, then i see no reason for him to be with spurs for the next 6 months if he can get a decent loan (surely he can?)

Sandro's injury means we are less likely to part with Hudd/Livermore so Carrolls chances of first team football are looking very slim. Combine that with the fact that we may be bringing in a midfielder in January - it is a no brainer for me.

Anyone who watches much of the Championship can think of an ideal destination for him? or is anyone convinced he could make his mark with a lower premiership team? if so, who?

 

[Spursidol]

I wonder where he played?

On a separate note, if carroll cant get a game in against Leeds, then i see no reason for him to be with spurs for the next 6 months if he can get a decent loan (surely he can?)

Sandro's injury means we are less likely to part with Hudd/Livermore so Carrolls chances of first team football are looking very slim. Combine that with the fact that we may be bringing in a midfielder in January - it is a no brainer for me.

Anyone who watches much of the Championship can think of an ideal destination for him? or is anyone convinced he could make his mark with a lower premiership team? if so, who?

I think the question of loans must apply to most of the development squad players on the fringes of the first team (Falque, Townsend, Carroll, Mason, Luongo etc) as none of them have played that much - Townsend has probably played the most, perhaps 10 times but only about 2 or 3 starts (in cups) which is not really enough for a 21 year old.

All really need loans to lower Premiership sides - most have already 'done' the Championship, but cannot see that many loans being available.

Its a concern.

 

[mpickard2087]

Yup, apparantly we are now taking it seriously and practising taking penalties at an early age - penalty shoot out vid against Atlanta

Is that really U13's!? Some of them look tiny even for that age!

 

[ShelfSide18]

Is that really U13's!? Some of them look tiny even for that age!

I coach U13s and it is amazing the difference in size and stature some of them are - my team is generally small but we have 1 huge player, tall and thickset and when he bears down on some of our stick thin littl'uns I always wince.

Bit disappointed to see kids as young as that in a penalty shoot out, places too much importance on result and not performance/development.

 

[leffe186]

I coach U13s and it is amazing the difference in size and stature some of them are - my team is generally small but we have 1 huge player, tall and thickset and when he bears down on some of our stick thin littl'uns I always wince.

Bit disappointed to see kids as young as that in a penalty shoot out, places too much importance on result and not performance/development.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but you could argue that penalties are important for performance/development. I'm not sure it does any harm by working a little on their mental strength, as well as the basic techniques involved.

That said, I'm astounded that we won a penalty shoot-out in those goals with a goalkeeper that small. I loved that he faced almost every penalty a different way, and tried loads of different tricks. A terrific save too. I didn't think our first three penalties were particularly good at all! Terrific fifth penalty by that toddler who wandered onto the pitch, though, and if the number six can do that every time (and guarantee that he doesn't hit the bar/Row Z) then goalkeepers won't get a sniff.

 

[Spursidol]

Is that really U13's!? Some of them look tiny even for that age!

Its an u 13 competition, but Spurs usually take younger players - often when you look at u 18 or u 19 tournaments the average age of the squad is a year younger than some other squads. So it would not surprise me if there were half a dozen 11 year olds in the team (but I know none of the squad so this is a an educated guess)

 

[ShelfSide18]

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but you could argue that penalties are important for performance/development. I'm not sure it does any harm by working a little on their mental strength, as well as the basic techniques involved.

That said, I'm astounded that we won a penalty shoot-out in those goals with a goalkeeper that small. I loved that he faced almost every penalty a different way, and tried loads of different tricks. A terrific save too. I didn't think our first three penalties were particularly good at all! Terrific fifth penalty by that toddler who wandered onto the pitch, though, and if the number six can do that every time (and guarantee that he doesn't hit the bar/Row Z) then goalkeepers won't get a sniff.

It is a tough one, and I have no experience yet of coaching with top level youngsters at the moment but I am very aware of how damaging the win at all costs, results results results results mentality is to our game. It's the first thing we need to drive out before we start consistently producing top quality talent I think - kids being able to be kids playing on smaller pitches, smaller team sizes and smaller goals = more touches and more fun, and no league structure and stuff like that.

I see your point, and would like to hear what our academy guys think of it - one big positive in this is they are playing continental opposition at an early age which is only a good thing for their development, just not sure what a Pen shoot out achieves really.