Match Threads Spurs vs Southampton - Match Thread - Day 33

[Shadydan]

Sorry, I really can't see the argument. Winks plays an ok 25 minutes and people want him to start the league cup final? It's crazy.

Not to mention as Trix alludes to, he's a prick behind the scenes.

When Winks plays our CM is trash. City will dominate us. Winks always gets schooled when we play Man City, whereas Ndombele has actually been MOM against City before.

MOTM against City before, wow! When was Ndombele's last good match? By all accounts every player should have been playing for a starting place for the cup final yesterday and from what I saw he didn't really take his chance.

For me all players get a clean slate, if Winks starts on Sunday I'd probably understand the logic.

 

[Arden]

I wonder if it was more down to Southampton running out of steam a bit in the 2nd half and allowed us more time on the ball and couldn't close down the passing lanes as quickly.

Seems to me they are like a 400m runner running a 5000m they go off like a friggin train and then end up gassed half way through the race.

 

[DannyNZ]

I wonder if it was more down to Southampton running out of steam a bit in the 2nd half and allowed us more time on the ball and couldn't close down the passing lanes as quickly.

Seems to me they are like a 400m runner running a 5000m they go off like a friggin train and then end up gassed half way through the race.

Agree Southampton running out of steam allowed us back into the game and we enjoyed the space that just wasn’t there in the first half. Thought the substitutions Mason made brought another level of energy and we were the team doing the pressing in the second half And right to the end.

 

[Aphex]

MOTM against City before, wow! When was Ndombele's last good match? By all accounts every player should have been playing for a starting place for the cup final yesterday and from what I saw he didn't really take his chance.

For me all players get a clean slate, if Winks starts on Sunday I'd probably understand the logic.

Before yesterday, when was anyones last good match apart from Kane?


We know Winks is crap, we've had proof of it ever since he broke through under Poch. He never performs well against any PL side, particularly the better sides. There should be no clean slate for players who aren't at the required quality. Ndombele is capable of a sublime assist or even a goal, a moment of quality to win a game. Winks isn't.

Ndombele is one of our most talented players, clearly the idea should be to play him into form, not just cast him aside and put bloody Winks in his place, especially for a league cup final of all matches. I could understand it if we were talking about playing GLC in his place, or PEH, but not Winks.

Son has been well below par for a couple of months before yesterday, as far as I am concerned it's like saying let's drop Son and play Andross Townsend in his place for the final because he put in a half decent 25 minutes against Southampton.

 

[Shadydan]

Before yesterday, when was anyones last good match apart from Kane?


We know Winks is crap, we've had proof of it ever since he broke through under Poch. He never performs well against any PL side, particularly the better sides. There should be no clean slate for players who aren't at the required quality. Ndombele is capable of a sublime assist or even a goal, a moment of quality to win a game. Winks isn't.

Ndombele is one of our most talented players, clearly the idea should be to play him into form, not just cast him aside and put bloody Winks in his place, especially for a league cup final of all matches. I could understand it if we were talking about playing GLC in his place, or PEH, but not Winks.

Son has been well below par for a couple of months before yesterday, as far as I am concerned it's like saying let's drop Son and play Andross Townsend in his place for the final because he put in a half decent 25 minutes against Southampton.

But as I said everyone gets a clean slate as we have a new manager. If everyone gets a clean slate in Mason's eyes then it should be the same as the fans.

The point is that Ndombele was crap for 70 mins yesterday and going along with his most recent performances suggests that it isn't a one off, you can talk about his talent yea blah blah I get that but at the moment he isn't producing and looks out of form or tired and looks nothing like the player he is capable of. Talking about playing players into form - that normally should happen before a big match not during a big match.

Comparing Son to Ndombele is hilarious by the way, Son is one of the best players in the league and he's earned his right to start, Ndombele has the potential to be one of the best and he hasn't earned it lately.

 

[Aphex]

But as I said everyone gets a clean slate as we have a new manager. If everyone gets a clean slate in Mason's eyes then it should be the same as the fans.

The point is that Ndombele was crap for 70 mins yesterday and going along with his most recent performances suggests that it isn't a one off, you can talk about his talent yea blah blah I get that but at the moment he isn't producing and looks out of form or tired and looks nothing like the player he is capable of. Talking about playing players into form - that normally should happen before a big match not during a big match.

Comparing Son to Ndombele is hilarious by the way, Son is one of the best players in the league and he's earned his right to start, Ndombele has the potential to be one of the best and he hasn't earned it lately.

I'll take my chances on a very talented player producing the goods in a major final over playing a mediocre player who never produces ANYTHING.

What will Winks do? Pass the opposition to death sideways?

The Son comparison was to point out how ridiculous the step down in quality it would be from Tanguy to Winks. It's just something you should never do in a final. If we start Winks on Sunday we deserve to lose, would be like the Son lwb decision from Poch.

 

[Shadydan]

I'll take my chances on a very talented player producing the goods in a major final over playing a mediocre player who never produces ANYTHING.

What will Winks do? Pass the opposition to death sideways?

The Son comparison was to point out how ridiculous the step down in quality it would be from Tanguy to Winks. It's just something you should never do in a final. If we start Winks on Sunday we deserve to lose, would be like the Son lwb decision from Poch.

Yeah you're massively over exaggerating - you don't like Winks so you're clearly showing your bias so there's no point debating this anymore.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

View attachment 85908

Brilliant haha! This has to keep coming out when Mason goes on to win every game until the end of the season

 

[spursfan77]

I wonder if it was more down to Southampton running out of steam a bit in the 2nd half and allowed us more time on the ball and couldn't close down the passing lanes as quickly.

Seems to me they are like a 400m runner running a 5000m they go off like a friggin train and then end up gassed half way through the race.

I think it played a part. One of my mates is a southampton fan and he says it happens every game. They just tire.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think the team played poorly in the first half because they were so used to playing the tactics and style under Mourinho and weren’t sure how to play differently.

They improved in the second half , possibly partly because of Mason’s halftime team talk and/or they awoke from their in trance state and realised that they weren’t under Jose anymore and were allowed to get out of their shells and attack the opponents.

Spot on. Was always going to take a bit of time for them to get used to the shackles being off, you could see the effort even in the first half was great it was just a bit sporradic and miss-placed because they were used to being told to hold a certain shape etc, Joses tactics were so suffocating but yesterday there were shoots of encouragement and 2nd half was at times beautiful and like watching Pochball.

Yes some players aren't good enough but we've not looks so fluid and free as that 2nd half ever under Jose, even when we had good results under jose it was all so robotic and structured.

These players are much much better than they looked under Jose and we saw that clearly in 2nd half yesterday, also great to have so many attacking options playing.

First game in ages that put a smile on my face, so glad Jose and his toxicness are gone.

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

Good result and I'm pleased for Ryan, butt as the long term Jose outers kept reminding us after every win it was against a low level side. I'll say the same now as then you can only beat what's in front of you but the quality of the opposition has to be acknowledged. Let's look to build from this but be under no illusion things have to improve a lot still on the pitch. I was not happy Winks was brought on for back of house reasons but he played well enough, and it's not on Mason to judge him on his past. Levy though should look to get rid asap if he's got the best interests of the club in mind because he's no different to Rose who Levy himself has declared unpickable.

Are you saying Levy had an influence on team selection? If so that should be a major concern for all.

 

[Joshua shepherd]

Yeah you're massively over exaggerating - you don't like Winks so you're clearly showing your bias so there's no point debating this anymore.

But the ceiling potential of winks on Sunday is literally a bang average game. The ceiling potential for n’dombele is he could win us the game. Worst case scenario Tanguy has a bad game which in reality wouldn’t be far off of the best winks could produce so it makes no sense playing him regardless of whether Tanguy is currently performing. I still say he is to an extent, he got the assist vs Everton for the first goal and is constantly making runs into the box when the ball is out wide.

A more appropriate comparison would be dropping Bale to play Bergwijn, would be a disaster just like playing winks will be.

 

[Trix]

Are you saying Levy had an influence on team selection? If so that should be a major concern for all.

No I'm saying he's the one that's made Rose unselectable. It's been this way for a long time and rightly so.

 

[TheChosenOne]

The first half was like a bad Mourinho performance, but the second was greatly improved and we actually attacked with purpose and kept the pressing and the tempo up right until the final whistle. It was also a great credit to the players that heads didn't drop after the disallowed goal, they kept going and got their reward.

Losing Ings to a possible hammy hurt them bad.

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

No I'm saying he's the one that's made Rose unselectable. It's been this way for a long time and rightly so.

Disagree, we all know Rose has all sorts of Beefs with ENIC, questioning their ambition publicly, refusing to leave for a move that suited ENIC etc but at the end of the day the manager should be deciding who plays, not who pissed off the owners the least or who the owner is friends with. Levy interfering with football matters has held us back (mainly to do with signings) and will continue to do so.

 

[spurs mental]

Brilliant haha! This has to keep coming out when Mason goes on to win every game until the end of the season

It will. Don't you worry. I'm working on something special if we win Sunday.

 

[Trix]

Disagree, we all know Rose has all sorts of Beefs with ENIC, questioning their ambition publicly, refusing to leave for a move that suited ENIC etc but at the end of the day the manager should be deciding who plays, not who pissed off the owners the least or who the owner is friends with. Levy interfering with football matters has held us back (mainly to do with signings) and will continue to do so.

Yeah I mean they should all be able to slag their teammates and the club off in the press, and also question then basically refuse to do what the manager asks. I mean what possible harm could it do.

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

Yeah I mean they should all be able to slag each to their teammates and the club off in the press, question then refuse to do what the manager asks on the pitch. I mean what possible harm could it do.

My point is that’s the managers decision what’s too much, he picks on merit what’s best for the team for results to include/exclude, or what are you saying ENIC are the moral compass? Haha, players shouldn’t be censored or selected by owners.

 

[UbeAstard]

Disagree, we all know Rose has all sorts of Beefs with ENIC, questioning their ambition publicly, refusing to leave for a move that suited ENIC etc but at the end of the day the manager should be deciding who plays, not who pissed off the owners the least or who the owner is friends with. Levy interfering with football matters has held us back (mainly to do with signings) and will continue to do so.

How has he interefered with signings apart from doing his job?

 

[Shadydan]

But the ceiling potential of winks on Sunday is literally a bang average game. The ceiling potential for n’dombele is he could win us the game. Worst case scenario Tanguy has a bad game which in reality wouldn’t be far off of the best winks could produce so it makes no sense playing him regardless of whether Tanguy is currently performing. I still say he is to an extent, he got the assist vs Everton for the first goal and is constantly making runs into the box when the ball is out wide.

A more appropriate comparison would be dropping Bale to play Bergwijn, would be a disaster just like playing winks will be.

Look I hear you but there's definitely an argument there about Ndombele's form, he hasn't looked right lately. If he had been tearing it up and had a bad game against Southampton then I'd probably understand but I don't see that, I see a player who is either out of form or tired or both.

All I'm saying is that don't be surprised if Mason puts Winks in that midfield on Sunday over Ndombele.