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Spurs Youth Thread 22/23

M

Moorechild

Active Member
Apr 13, 2006
273
121
Just a query to those in the know? Not that long ago we had a conveyor belt of players for the first team: Townsend, Kane, mason, Bentalab, Edwards, livermore, Onomah, Caulker, Carter-Vickers, Madueke, Skipp etc, etc.. Regardless of how well they did, and some of them have done superbly well and still might do more, they made us a lot of money and gave me a lot of pride - who was responsible and why has it stopped? Was it Inglethorpe, McDermott or Sherwood. It seems to me, from a position of ignorance that it was Sherwood who really pushed them to the first team and got them the right loans. IN which case should we ask him back. thanks
 
Spurzinho

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,517
8,373
Moorechild said:
Just a query to those in the know? Not that long ago we had a conveyor belt of players for the first team: Townsend, Kane, mason, Bentalab, Edwards, livermore, Onomah, Caulker, Carter-Vickers, Madueke, Skipp etc, etc.. Regardless of how well they did, and some of them have done superbly well and still might do more, they made us a lot of money and gave me a lot of pride - who was responsible and why has it stopped? Was it Inglethorpe, McDermott or Sherwood. It seems to me, from a position of ignorance that it was Sherwood who really pushed them to the first team and got them the right loans. IN which case should we ask him back. thanks
Click to expand...
As much as I love the guy I'd have to say Poch. He stopped us loaning out players for development. So players stagnated and stayed at the club far too long. He was also very, very cautious about giving chances to youngsters. After the initial spell where you had the likes of Kane, Townsend, Mason, Carroll. etc who were already in and around the first team. That next batch were not offered very much encouragement. Poch was very dismissive of Shayon Harrison, Marcus Edwards, KWP, Josh Onomah, CCV, Veljkovic.etc All mostly on the grounds that they lacked the correct mentality. In some cases that was fair but I don't know how much effort was put into helping with that. I think the biggest problem was that they were all going really stale and Poch couldn't/wouldn't see that. Not all of them would have made it with us but we could have done more and if we had I think it would have also kept the pathway open. In the end we had a completely bloated U23s squad and everyone just regressed. We're still trying to get that back on track but there's no sign that any kind of pathway is opening up again and we're certainly not loaning many out. The simple fact is that the level of competitiveness at U18 and U23 level is pitiful. If there's no edge to the game then you're just maintaining your basic cardio and not much else.

Ryan Mason is supposed to be in charge of the pathway. I haven't seen any evidence of him doing anything though. You need to make the effort to integrate a couple of youngsters every year. Give them a mixture of first team training, making the bench and a loan or two. I'm just not sure that we care enough as a club to get these youngsters into the first team squad. We treat it like an aspiration rather than an objective. There's always a reason to put off an aspiration to another day. An objective is measurable. You did or you didn't. Clubs that have youth integration as an objective get results. Clubs that have youth integration as an aspiration don't get results.
 
ILS

ILS

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
3,803
6,913
It will be interesting to see if they cut Scarlett's loan short , as he hasn't even got on the pitch in the last two matches and only 7 minutes the game prior to that.
 
M

Moorechild

Active Member
Apr 13, 2006
273
121
Spurzinho said:
As much as I love the guy I'd have to say Poch. He stopped us loaning out players for development. So players stagnated and stayed at the club far too long. He was also very, very cautious about giving chances to youngsters. After the initial spell where you had the likes of Kane, Townsend, Mason, Carroll. etc who were already in and around the first team. That next batch were not offered very much encouragement. Poch was very dismissive of Shayon Harrison, Marcus Edwards, KWP, Josh Onomah, CCV, Veljkovic.etc All mostly on the grounds that they lacked the correct mentality. In some cases that was fair but I don't know how much effort was put into helping with that. I think the biggest problem was that they were all going really stale and Poch couldn't/wouldn't see that. Not all of them would have made it with us but we could have done more and if we had I think it would have also kept the pathway open. In the end we had a completely bloated U23s squad and everyone just regressed. We're still trying to get that back on track but there's no sign that any kind of pathway is opening up again and we're certainly not loaning many out. The simple fact is that the level of competitiveness at U18 and U23 level is pitiful. If there's no edge to the game then you're just maintaining your basic cardio and not much else.

Ryan Mason is supposed to be in charge of the pathway. I haven't seen any evidence of him doing anything though. You need to make the effort to integrate a couple of youngsters every year. Give them a mixture of first team training, making the bench and a loan or two. I'm just not sure that we care enough as a club to get these youngsters into the first team squad. We treat it like an aspiration rather than an objective. There's always a reason to put off an aspiration to another day. An objective is measurable. You did or you didn't. Clubs that have youth integration as an objective get results. Clubs that have youth integration as an aspiration don't get results.
Click to expand...
thanks very much for the reply. Funny you say Poch, as I remember him as a promoter of youth and had kind of put it down to 'instant success' managers not liking the risk. Makes sense though and I do remember Jose playing some like Nile John. Its just a real shame to see them flying after they leave us rather than with us. Had forgotten veljkovic, carroll, kwp, Cirkin. So many!
 
W

Westmorlandspur

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2013
2,867
4,734
Moorechild said:
Just a query to those in the know? Not that long ago we had a conveyor belt of players for the first team: Townsend, Kane, mason, Bentalab, Edwards, livermore, Onomah, Caulker, Carter-Vickers, Madueke, Skipp etc, etc.. Regardless of how well they did, and some of them have done superbly well and still might do more, they made us a lot of money and gave me a lot of pride - who was responsible and why has it stopped? Was it Inglethorpe, McDermott or Sherwood. It seems to me, from a position of ignorance that it was Sherwood who really pushed them to the first team and got them the right loans. IN which case should we ask him back. thanks
Click to expand...
When you watch the youth or under21 there are very few if the required quality to get anywhere near the first team or even a decent transfer fee.
Markanday has done very little at Blackburn and seems to be on his way to Motherwell. Cirkin has done well at Sunderland but is often injured.
all our bets are on Scarlett and Devine. Hope this Paratici stuff doesn’t affect any loans out as Devine really needs one. His team mates in the England under 19 team , Ramsey and Chukwumeka are do8ng well at Norwich and Chelsea. They are a year ahead of him but he needs to go now.
 
E

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2004
7,454
6,717
Spurzinho said:
As much as I love the guy I'd have to say Poch. He stopped us loaning out players for development. So players stagnated and stayed at the club far too long. He was also very, very cautious about giving chances to youngsters. After the initial spell where you had the likes of Kane, Townsend, Mason, Carroll. etc who were already in and around the first team. That next batch were not offered very much encouragement. Poch was very dismissive of Shayon Harrison, Marcus Edwards, KWP, Josh Onomah, CCV, Veljkovic.etc All mostly on the grounds that they lacked the correct mentality. In some cases that was fair but I don't know how much effort was put into helping with that. I think the biggest problem was that they were all going really stale and Poch couldn't/wouldn't see that. Not all of them would have made it with us but we could have done more and if we had I think it would have also kept the pathway open. In the end we had a completely bloated U23s squad and everyone just regressed. We're still trying to get that back on track but there's no sign that any kind of pathway is opening up again and we're certainly not loaning many out. The simple fact is that the level of competitiveness at U18 and U23 level is pitiful. If there's no edge to the game then you're just maintaining your basic cardio and not much else.

Ryan Mason is supposed to be in charge of the pathway. I haven't seen any evidence of him doing anything though. You need to make the effort to integrate a couple of youngsters every year. Give them a mixture of first team training, making the bench and a loan or two. I'm just not sure that we care enough as a club to get these youngsters into the first team squad. We treat it like an aspiration rather than an objective. There's always a reason to put off an aspiration to another day. An objective is measurable. You did or you didn't. Clubs that have youth integration as an objective get results. Clubs that have youth integration as an aspiration don't get results.
Click to expand...
Is Mason still in charge of the pathway? I know that was briefly head of player development before he became acting manager, but I thought under Conte he is first team coach.
 
E

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2004
7,454
6,717
Westmorlandspur said:
When you watch the youth or under21 there are very few if the required quality to get anywhere near the first team or even a decent transfer fee.
Markanday has done very little at Blackburn and seems to be on his way to Motherwell. Cirkin has done well at Sunderland but is often injured.
all our bets are on Scarlett and Devine. Hope this Paratici stuff doesn’t affect any loans out as Devine really needs one. His team mates in the England under 19 team , Ramsey and Chukwumeka are do8ng well at Norwich and Chelsea. They are a year ahead of him but he needs to go now.
Click to expand...
To be fair to Markanday he did his hamstring pretty much before the ink was dry on his contract. It can take time for a young player to get back on course after injury, as we have seen with Skipp.
 
Spurzinho

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,517
8,373
eddiebailey said:
Is Mason still in charge of the pathway? I know that was briefly head of player development before he became acting manager, but I thought under Conte he is first team coach.
Click to expand...
I've just checked, apparently Chris Powell is head of player development between U17 & U23. Nigel Gibbs is his assistant. Dean Rastrick his head of the academy. Stuart Lewis is Head coach of the U18s and Wayne Burnett is head coach of the U23s. Paul Bracewell is the Professional Development Phase coach.

So, Lewis and Burnett do the day to day coaching and matchday stuff. Bracewell, Powell and Gibbs largely overlap in that their roles involve monitoring and overseeing a players long term development, career pathway. etc and Rastrick oversees the coaches, the methods, the strategies including recruitment of staff.

There's no shortage of staff in this department.
 
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