Match Threads Stoke vs Tottenham Hotspur - Match Thread

[UbeAstard]

The way Lloris could cut out the mistakes is by taking fewer risks.

Then he'd be a less effective player. I'd rather have him, with his errors and gambles that don't come off, than most "safer" keepers who stay on their line, cover their near post as though their granny's life depends on it, stare whilst stationary at players bearing down on them or whatever, than Hugo who gamble and wins more often than not.

The goals he concedes are mostly the price we pay for his brilliance the rest of the time.

We can't have it all ways.

No ManU fan is saying that about De Gea who is the best keeper in the prem.

 

[Col_M]

 

[UbeAstard]

A good 3 points. Let’s face it we didn’t play well today at all. Hard to pick a man of the match to be honest. On another day Stoke may have got a draw, they certainly had the opportunities but made poor choices. But we did get the win and that is why we are where we are in the league. Despite a poor performance we still have a good shot at 2nd. That would be brilliant season and show much improvement given it’s a tougher league this season than the last two.

I don't think we played badly. Stoke were out for the win and we had to do well to keep them at bay. They would have given anyone a good battle. Us been professional and mature for the majority of the game won through in the end. We did have some brain fart moments, Lloris with their equaliser, also after quelling their attacks towards the end of the game throwing the ball out to attack instead of using his legal time to run the clock down, also when we got out numbered in one of their final attacks when they should of scored.

 

[Col_M]

No ManU fan is saying that about De Gea who is the best keeper in the prem.

It sure what your point is. Do you want us to sell Hugo and buy De Gea? It’s easier playing in a team that parks the bus.

 

[UbeAstard]

It sure what your point is. Do you want us to sell Hugo and buy De Gea? It’s easier playing in a team that parks the bus.

No that's not what I'm saying, use your intelligence and consider what I was responding to. I'm not going to bother explaining to you.

 

[Grapo2001]

Wow just seen the highlights. Two howlers in two games for Hugo

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

No ManU fan is saying that about De Gea who is the best keeper in the prem.

Whether De Gea or anyone else is the best keeper in the league or not doesn’t affect whether Hugo’s the right keeper for us. And I question whether there’s a way of determining who’s the best anyway. There’s a lot more to Hugo’s game than shot-stopping.

He plays a very different game from DeGea, one that is an integral factor in our overall style, one that allows us to defend very high up the pitch because he acts as a defender on and even beyond the edge of his box in a way that De Gea doesn’t. So even without making a save, Hugo helps the team in a way a more defensive goalie like De Gea wouldn’t. And despite our perception, Hugo is considerably more accurate in his distribution than De Gea ( 78% accuracy v 61% this season alone , per Squawka) which is another important factor in how we play.

Hugo’s play contributes directly to the team’s way of playing, so if we swapped him with a more traditional, “safer” keeper who would take fewer risks and therefore probably concede slightly fewer goals, we’d have to change our whole attacking pressing style and given how well it works now, do you think that sort of change would be a good idea?

De Gea is brilliant for Utd’s style and Hugo is brilliant for Spurs’ style and I prefer Spurs’ style don’t you?

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Whether De Gea or anyone else is the best keeper in the league or not doesn’t affect whether Hugo’s the right keeper for us. And I question whether there’s a way of determining who’s the best anyway. There’s a lot more to Hugo’s game than shot-stopping.

He plays a very different game from DeGea, one that is an integral factor in our overall style, one that allows us to defend very high up the pitch because he acts as a defender on and even beyond the edge of his box in a way that De Gea doesn’t. So even without making a save, Hugo helps the team in a way a more defensive goalie like De Gea wouldn’t. And despite our perception, Hugo is considerably more accurate in his distribution than De Gea ( 78% accuracy v 61% this season alone , per Squawka) which is another important factor in how we play.

Hugo’s play contributes directly to the team’s way of playing, so if we swapped him with a more traditional, “safer” keeper who would take fewer risks and therefore probably concede slightly fewer goals, we’d have to change our whole attacking pressing style and given how well it works now, do you think that sort of change would be a good idea?

De Gea is brilliant for Utd’s style and Hugo is brilliant for Spurs’ style and I prefer Spurs’ style don’t you?

I agree with all of that LZ, but how does that distribution stat square with the SC narrative that his kicking is 'awful'? Are you (or is that stat) suggesting SC has it wrong? I'm not sure that's possible

 

[Ionman34]

I agree with all of that LZ, but how does that distribution stat square with the SC narrative that his kicking is 'awful'? Are you (or is that stat) suggesting SC has it wrong? I'm not sure that's possible

There’s lies, damn lies and statistics...

Unless, of course, those statistics back up your argument, in which case they are fact and other statistics are lies...

Unless, of course, those other statistics are used by someone else who has a better argument than you, in which case they are facts and other statistics are lies...

In fact (see what I did there?), over 67.3% of all statistics are spurious...

But I’m only 87.76% sure of that.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Must be remembered that Hugo tends to play passes of 5-10 yards in distance to the centre backs far more than De Gea, who in the main is playing long passes which are harder for the recipient to control by nature.

I don’t believe Hugo needs replaced, he’s had a poor season but he has had several good seasons beforehand. I do think that it’s time to consider whether he’s still good enough to justify only having a ‘back up’ like Vorm instead of genuine completion (a recently relegated Butland perhaps).

 

[Gb160]

Must be remembered that Hugo tends to play passes of 5-10 yards in distance to the centre backs far more than De Gea, who in the main is playing long passes which are harder for the recipient to control by nature.

I don’t believe Hugo needs replaced, he’s had a poor season but he has had several good seasons beforehand. I do think that it’s time to consider whether he’s still good enough to justify only having a ‘back up’ like Vorm instead of genuine completion (a recently relegated Butland perhaps).

Fair point, but i wouldn't say Butland is even an upgrade on Vorm personally.

 

[danielneeds]

Must be remembered that Hugo tends to play passes of 5-10 yards in distance to the centre backs far more than De Gea, who in the main is playing long passes which are harder for the recipient to control by nature.

I don’t believe Hugo needs replaced, he’s had a poor season but he has had several good seasons beforehand. I do think that it’s time to consider whether he’s still good enough to justify only having a ‘back up’ like Vorm instead of genuine completion (a recently relegated Butland perhaps).

Butland is completely wrong for our style though. If we're looking for a young keeper to push Lloris, we need to find one that is comfortable sweeping up behind a high line, and confident playing with his feet. I doubt we'd find one in England, we'd probably have to look to Europe.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Whether De Gea or anyone else is the best keeper in the league or not doesn’t affect whether Hugo’s the right keeper for us. And I question whether there’s a way of determining who’s the best anyway. There’s a lot more to Hugo’s game than shot-stopping.

He plays a very different game from DeGea, one that is an integral factor in our overall style, one that allows us to defend very high up the pitch because he acts as a defender on and even beyond the edge of his box in a way that De Gea doesn’t. So even without making a save, Hugo helps the team in a way a more defensive goalie like De Gea wouldn’t. And despite our perception, Hugo is considerably more accurate in his distribution than De Gea ( 78% accuracy v 61% this season alone , per Squawka) which is another important factor in how we play.

Hugo’s play contributes directly to the team’s way of playing, so if we swapped him with a more traditional, “safer” keeper who would take fewer risks and therefore probably concede slightly fewer goals, we’d have to change our whole attacking pressing style and given how well it works now, do you think that sort of change would be a good idea?

De Gea is brilliant for Utd’s style and Hugo is brilliant for Spurs’ style and I prefer Spurs’ style don’t you?

But those pass completion stats are effected by the way those two keepers are asked to play. If DeGea is told not to make passes but to hoof the ball up field then his pass completion will be much worse than Lloris’s. It doesn’t automatically mean De Gea can’t do it if coached differently.

And there’s not much merit in completing a pass to to a defender which puts him and us under pressure.

I’ve never had an issue with Lloris’s passing accuracy, it’s his decision making, about when and who to make those passes that’s the issue.

And it’s all good and well being willing to instigate playing out from the back, but if you are continually letting in soft goals it’s a bit moribund. As we saw at ManC last season with Bravo, who regularly completed more passes than opposition midfielders, but couldn’t save anything.

Lloris is now making a lot of silly errors. He passes to defenders when they are getting pressed, he’s cost us at least two goals making poor “sweeping” decisions, and his shot stopping is nowhere near the likes of DeGea, Courtoise etc.

He has a real issue with his angles at times and shows players too much goal, he also has done some really strange shit like not coming out to narrow the angles against Salah and another one not long after that I forgot the game.

Finding a better keeper who fits our style won’t be a doddle, but I think it’s time we were at least looking.

 

[bubble07]

Some you guys would pick holes even if we win the league.

Why, is that a bad thing to do?

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

But those pass completion stats are effected by the way those two keepers are asked to play. If DeGea is told not to make passes but to hoof the ball up field then his pass completion will be much worse than Lloris’s. It doesn’t automatically mean De Gea can’t do it if coached differently.

And there’s not much merit in completing a pass to to a defender which puts him and us under pressure.

I’ve never had an issue with Lloris’s passing accuracy, it’s his decision making, about when and who to make those passes that’s the issue.

And it’s all good and well being willing to instigate playing out from the back, but if you are continually letting in soft goals it’s a bit moribund. As we saw at ManC last season with Bravo, who regularly completed more passes than opposition midfielders, but couldn’t save anything.

Lloris is now making a lot of silly errors. He passes to defenders when they are getting pressed, he’s cost us at least two goals making poor “sweeping” decisions, and his shot stopping is nowhere near the likes of DeGea, Courtoise etc.

He has a real issue with his angles at times and shows players too much goal, he also has done some really strange shit like not coming out to narrow the angles against Salah and another one not long after that I forgot the game.

Finding a better keeper who fits our style won’t be a doddle, but I think it’s time we were at least looking.

"Continuously letting in soft goals".

Yes, he makes mistakes. We've covered that, and the reasons why he does, and how it is not just a reflection of his ability and judgement but the whole team's. If he stayed closer to his line yesterday, we possibly would not have conceded a goal. That's part of the deal with Hugo, just like Harry not passing to a better-placed attacker and thereby costing us a goal is part of his game.

I think Hugo is better than many people here give him credit for, because they judge him on his mistakes and not on his contribution to the team.

And yes, we should always be trying to improve. That is the minimum requirement for every football team.

 

[WiganSpur]

Some people are still in denial about Lloris. I can understand that because it's really hard to be critical of someone everybody loves and has been genuinely loyal to us over the years.

Truth is this season he's made a lot of mistakes. Hurried kicks in possession, sweeping errors like yesterday, flapping at crosses and the most common for me is poor positioning especially for one on ones.

Of course there's been a lot of good stuff too, but previously we were getting a lot less of these mistakes. The Lloris of a couple of years ago was a different animal to this one unfortunately.

 

[Good Doctor M]

Why, is that a bad thing to do?

Because joy is fleeting. Especially for Spurs fans. Gotta squeeze every bit of pleasure out of success. If some people want to run a post mortem after that success concerning how it could have been better, don't be surprised if most people tell you to bore off.

 

[sebo_sek]

Yep. Sky want to telivise more games and the prem want more of the american audience to watch.

Expect this more next season.

In Poland most games are at different times for precisely this reason. Milk the league as much as possible. If it means we get to watch Spurs live week in week out, then great

 

[sebo_sek]

Some people are still in denial about Lloris. I can understand that because it's really hard to be critical of someone everybody loves and has been genuinely loyal to us over the years.

Truth is this season he's made a lot of mistakes. Hurried kicks in possession, sweeping errors like yesterday, flapping at crosses and the most common for me is poor positioning especially for one on ones.

Of course there's been a lot of good stuff too, but previously we were getting a lot less of these mistakes. The Lloris of a couple of years ago was a different animal to this one unfortunately.

And when I name evident shortcomings in Kane's form I get shit slung at me. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Lilbaz]

In Poland most games are at different times for precisely this reason. Milk the league as much as possible. If it means we get to watch Spurs live week in week out, then great

Also in england they cannot show any saturday games between 15:00 and 17:30 on tv.