Strikers

[themanwhofellasleep]

It has probably not escaped the attention of most Spurs fans that we currently have a striker problem. Basically, we have Bent, and that's it. Now, was the problem something we could have avoided, or was it beyond the control of the board?

We finished the last season limping home in the league, but with our first silverware in almost ten years. Optimism was high. We had seen the back of a bad season, but had a new manager in place, who had a proven track record. Money would be made available to him. We bought Modric, Gomes and Dos Santos. Everything was set for improvement. And then Keane said he wanted to leave...

When Defoe left in January our board should have been identifying replacements. When Keane started angling for a move to Liverpool some months ago, we needed to step up our search for not one, but two replacements. And Berbatov wanting to leave is hardly news, is it? It's something we have known for months now, so a third replacement striker would be needed. In short, the club has known for many months now that we needed new goalscorers.

It's not like Keane, Defoe and Berbatov were suddenly killed in a car crash the day before the season begun, leaving us high and dry. Spurs fans have known that we're short of strikers for months now and so have the board. The club has done nothing to resolve the situation except engage in a long, drawn out attempt to buy an overpriced Russian who isn't even an out-and-out striker. The simple fact is that we should have signed two new strikers months ago. There are other quality strikers out there aside from Arshavin.

The Berbatov situation has been a fiasco. We could have sold him months ago or told him point-blank that he wasn't for sale. Instead we've let the situation drag on like a bad soap opera, with Berba as the pantomime villain.

When I made a similar point after the Boro game, some fans were quick to point out that the transfer window hadn't closed yet. So what? The league has started, which is the main thing. Given the events of last season, I would have thought that the board would understand the importance of a good start, because losing our first games puts the team under immense pressure, and frankly, Spurs aren't good under pressure. It's a young, brittle team that plays well when things are going well but struggles badly when sitting at the bottom of the table.

There's no avoiding the fact that the board has f*cked up badly. They have had the time and money to avoid this situation but have bungled things to the extent where we look a worse team than at the end of last season.

I don't blame Ramos for the striker situation (although I'm not a massive fan of his tactics in the two games so far), and I think the last thing the club needs right now is doubts over his future. The club needs stability, and frankly, we should be backing Ramos over the long-term, irrespective of how we do this season. Calling for his head only creates more panic, and that's something the club can do without.

So if you're going to boo anyone, boo Berbatov and the board, but let's get behind the team and start winning some games.

 

[jamesc0le]

the club are actively envolved in negotiating and signing a striker, a target man, and arshavin. (+ defenders)

 

[rez9000]

It has probably not escaped the attention of most Spurs fans that we currently have a striker problem. Basically, we have Bent, and that's it. Now, was the problem something we could have avoided, or was it beyond the control of the board?

We finished the last season limping home in the league, but with our first silverware in almost ten years. Optimism was high. We had seen the back of a bad season, but had a new manager in place, who had a proven track record. Money would be made available to him. We bought Modric, Gomes and Dos Santos. Everything was set for improvement. And then Keane said he wanted to leave...

When Defoe left in January our board should have been identifying replacements. When Keane started angling for a move to Liverpool some months ago, we needed to step up our search for not one, but two replacements. And Berbatov wanting to leave is hardly news, is it? It's something we have known for months now, so a third replacement striker would be needed. In short, the club has known for many months now that we needed new goalscorers.

It's not like Keane, Defoe and Berbatov were suddenly killed in a car crash the day before the season begun, leaving us high and dry. Spurs fans have known that we're short of strikers for months now and so have the board. The club has done nothing to resolve the situation except engage in a long, drawn out attempt to buy an overpriced Russian who isn't even an out-and-out striker. The simple fact is that we should have signed two new strikers months ago. There are other quality strikers out there aside from Arshavin.

The Berbatov situation has been a fiasco. We could have sold him months ago or told him point-blank that he wasn't for sale. Instead we've let the situation drag on like a bad soap opera, with Berba as the pantomime villain.

When I made a similar point after the Boro game, some fans were quick to point out that the transfer window hadn't closed yet. So what? The league has started, which is the main thing. Given the events of last season, I would have thought that the board would understand the importance of a good start, because losing our first games puts the team under immense pressure, and frankly, Spurs aren't good under pressure. It's a young, brittle team that plays well when things are going well but struggles badly when sitting at the bottom of the table.

There's no avoiding the fact that the board has f*cked up badly. They have had the time and money to avoid this situation but have bungled things to the extent where we look a worse team than at the end of last season.

I don't blame Ramos for the striker situation (although I'm not a massive fan of his tactics in the two games so far), and I think the last thing the club needs right now is doubts over his future. The club needs stability, and frankly, we should be backing Ramos over the long-term, irrespective of how we do this season. Calling for his head only creates more panic, and that's something the club can do without.

So if you're going to boo anyone, boo Berbatov and the board, but let's get behind the team and start winning some games.

Yep. Very true. Although I think you may have understated the case a little. It's not just the striker situation. We should have moved beyond the idea of 'score more than the opposition', which is what Keane and Berba gave us last season. We should be building the team from the back and we've failed to do that since Carrick left.

We've fumbled horrendously once again. We should have dug our heels in with Keane and Berbatov and said 'no way in hell'. Even dropped them to the reserves for a while if they cut up rough about it.

And then we should have signed some top quality defenders. We should have scoured the European Leagues to find the cream of blocking talent. Hunted up a true world-class defensive midfielder and stopped the rot at the back.

But no. We decided to spend a lot of money (money we had, to be fair) but still a significant outlay on just one aspect of the squad, but our weaknesses haven't been addressed properly.

We have 8 days. 8 days in which to try and do something about the problems that everyone can see we have. If we don't, I fear that we may be in for another unfortunate season of underachievement.

 

[jamesc0le]

rez no team in their right mind keeps players who want away, you just make sure you get what they are worth and maybe a bit on top. only teams liek manure can afford to piss their players off and keep them like ronaldo cos they know full welll that they have great players in reserve ready to replace any spoilt fuckwit twat.

 

[Yiddo1982]

themanwhofellasleep......good views there. I agree. The fact that the transfer window is still open means diddley-squat. The league has started and we have nil points from, let's be honest, 6 we should have walked - or at least 4.

I can't understand how we played so fell in the build up to the season and so utterly shit when the real games began, maybe the board thought we had the luxury of more time to get people in because of the fact we were playing so well beforehand (Roma).

For me a DM is vitally important too. I can't see JJ and Luka performing collectively as a unit.

I'm really worried......and again so gutted. For the last few months i have been so excited, and thought we were going to be top notch. How one week and four hours make such a difference.

 

[Defsta]

the club are actively envolved in negotiating and signing a striker, a target man, and arshavin. (+ defenders)

How do you know that?

 

[Leachie]

How ironic is it that we havd struggled to keep 4 quality strikers happy in the past and now we can have 7 subs it would have been so much easier but we just have the 1 (even though we have Berba he can't be bothered to turn up).

Ramos and co have really got to pull it out of the bag.

 

[jamesc0le]

How do you know that?

because those have to be the minimum requirements? :shrug:

 

[rez9000]

rez no team in their right mind keeps players who want away, you just make sure you get what they are worth and maybe a bit on top. only teams liek manure can afford to piss their players off and keep them like ronaldo cos they know full welll that they have great players in reserve ready to replace any spoilt fuckwit twat.

That is the accepted perspective on players. However, that's only because the bottom-line has become so important in football, and not because of supposed player-power.

Making a player who wants to leave play is difficult, but there are measures that can be taken. Both Berbatov and Keane are or were on long contracts. They are or were in absolutely no position to make threats.

Consider this. Berbatov says he wants to go to Man U. We say 'no'. He says 'I won't play'. We say 'Fine. You're dropped to the reserves and you won't play there either'. How long will it be, do you think before he comes begging to the manager to let him back on the pitch? And even if he doesn't, his red-nosed **** of a suitor isn't going to be seeing much of him either if all he's doing is warming the reserves bench week-in, week-out.

Yes, it's expensive because we'd be paying him to do nothing, although we could probably dock his wages too and he wouldn't be getting any bonuses either. Yes, it would also leave us weakened while he was being disciplined. But it would send a strong message that would serve us very well in the long-term. We would show players that once they sign a contract they can't up sticks and leave when the fancy takes them.

We just can't seem to balance it out, can we? We've gone from a position where the clubs are deemed to hold all the cards. Then the Bosman and Webster rulings come in and it seems all that the players hold all the cards. If players feel they want to hold their clubs to ransom then the clubs should be justified in dealing with the players in the harshest possible way. Otherwise all we will have is a continued cementing of the Top 4 hegemony. All it takes is for one the utter, utter bastards at the Top to come calling at it can destabilise an entire football club.

Look at the situation we're in. Right now, the uncertainty over Berbatov is causing ripples of instability from the boardroom to the bootroom. His absence from the squad today caused us problems on the field, because we were forced into playing the only viable formation available to us. This caused problems for the players, the management and the fans. The result today also showed how desperate we are to get new blood in, which will consequently lower his value and inflate the price of any transfer target we are looking at, which in turn causes problems at the board level.

It has to stop! And the only way to do it is to force players to honour the contracts they sign. If they refuse, they don't play. Look at Robbie Keane two seasons ago when he wasn't being played. He couldn't stand it, he was itching to get on the field. I think we all remember the strop he threw. And I'm guessing that that's true of the vast, vast majority of professional football players. So, if they value playing so much, then the obvious punishment when they don't fall into line is to prevent them playing. Teach them a lesson while at the same time teaching the Top 4 that they can't just swan in and poach whoever they want.

 

[jamesc0le]

no rez, it doesn't work. the only thing you can do to a player that wants to go to club A is tout him to clubs B, C,and D , that , unfortunately in the modern game, i sthe only lesson you can give. i'm hoping barcelona have pulled their finger out of their arse by now, a sad day if berba went to manure.

 

[jamesrose110385]

I think it was martin Jol in his first season that put Robbie Keane in the reserves when he complained about not playing?

Either way I say you're right, I respect the player's and I know they all have dreams, but the way to get what they want is not to hand in transfer requests and stop playing. The way to do it is to speak with the manager and chairman, state that they know they ahve the option to fulfill their dreams and respect that they have to carry on playing their best untill the club can replace them adequately, whether that be in a month or in the next transfer window!!

 

[rez9000]

no rez, it doesn't work. the only thing you can do to a player that wants to go to club A is tout him to clubs B, C,and D , that , unfortunately in the modern game, i sthe only lesson you can give. i'm hoping barcelona have pulled their finger out of their arse by now, a sad day if berba went to manure.

How do you know it doesn't work? It's never been tried. Why wouldn't it work? What could the player do? What could the club trying to buy him do?

 

[onlyonekeano]

I agree completely - it's an absolute disgrace that Levy, Comolli & co. have let Ramos go into the new season with Darren Bent as our only available striker.

We all know Levy as the 'master negotiator' who pushes selling clubs to the last minute before finally getting his man, but that's simply not good enough. The season starts in the middle of August, not on 1 September, and thus it is blindingly obvious that by that point, we need to have enough players in the squad capable of scoring goals.

It shouldn't be surprising that we haven't got any points so far..we haven't played the two players who scored close to 50 of our goals last season. It's not rocket science! If the money is there - go out and spend it, and if the money isn't there, why on earth did we spend the Keane money on Bentley?!

 

[themanwhofellasleep]

the club are actively envolved in negotiating and signing a striker, a target man, and arshavin. (+ defenders)

So people keep saying. Has someone mentioned to the board that the season started last week?

Of course we're looking for players. My point is that we've had the whole summer to plan our purchases. Saying in late August that we're planning to buy players, when we've already played two games, is a bit pointless. We've known for months that we need a new striker, and yet here we are, two games down, zero points, with people telling us to be patient, that players are on the way. Suppose we do sign a striker next week, will they be ready in time for Chelsea? Or will be be three games into the season with zero points?

There was a story on the Spurs website just before the season started. It said: "We're Ready". But we're not ready, are we? Even the people who defend the board accept that until new players arrive, we're not ready.

The club has known for months that we need strikers. We should have signed them for the start of the season, not the start of September.

 

[SpurSince57]

It has probably not escaped the attention of most Spurs fans that we currently have a striker problem. Basically, we have Bent, and that's it. Now, was the problem something we could have avoided, or was it beyond the control of the board?

We finished the last season limping home in the league, but with our first silverware in almost ten years. Optimism was high. We had seen the back of a bad season, but had a new manager in place, who had a proven track record. Money would be made available to him. We bought Modric, Gomes and Dos Santos. Everything was set for improvement. And then Keane said he wanted to leave...

When Defoe left in January our board should have been identifying replacements. When Keane started angling for a move to Liverpool some months ago, we needed to step up our search for not one, but two replacements. And Berbatov wanting to leave is hardly news, is it? It's something we have known for months now, so a third replacement striker would be needed. In short, the club has known for many months now that we needed new goalscorers.

It's not like Keane, Defoe and Berbatov were suddenly killed in a car crash the day before the season begun, leaving us high and dry. Spurs fans have known that we're short of strikers for months now and so have the board. The club has done nothing to resolve the situation except engage in a long, drawn out attempt to buy an overpriced Russian who isn't even an out-and-out striker. The simple fact is that we should have signed two new strikers months ago. There are other quality strikers out there aside from Arshavin.

The Berbatov situation has been a fiasco. We could have sold him months ago or told him point-blank that he wasn't for sale. Instead we've let the situation drag on like a bad soap opera, with Berba as the pantomime villain.

When I made a similar point after the Boro game, some fans were quick to point out that the transfer window hadn't closed yet. So what? The league has started, which is the main thing. Given the events of last season, I would have thought that the board would understand the importance of a good start, because losing our first games puts the team under immense pressure, and frankly, Spurs aren't good under pressure. It's a young, brittle team that plays well when things are going well but struggles badly when sitting at the bottom of the table.

There's no avoiding the fact that the board has f*cked up badly. They have had the time and money to avoid this situation but have bungled things to the extent where we look a worse team than at the end of last season.

I don't blame Ramos for the striker situation (although I'm not a massive fan of his tactics in the two games so far), and I think the last thing the club needs right now is doubts over his future. The club needs stability, and frankly, we should be backing Ramos over the long-term, irrespective of how we do this season. Calling for his head only creates more panic, and that's something the club can do without.

So if you're going to boo anyone, boo Berbatov and the board, but let's get behind the team and start winning some games.

Keane, apparently, said he would be happy to stay. We decided to cash in without having lined up a replacement (or at least, nailed down). Nor did he start 'angling for a move'. He was tapped up.

Defoe should have gone last summer. That's why we signed Bent. You also seem to have forgotten that we struggled to keep four top-line strikers happy and sharp.

Do you imagine that we didn't foresee another move for Berbatov from United? They were told the price, and so far they've failed to come anywhere near it.

But I agree people shouldn't start jumping on Ramos' back. What's hilarious is that only a couple of weeks ago some of those doing just that were trotting out drivel like 'When Juande starts working his magic.' :sleepy:

How long before we have the dreaded 'tactically naive' appearing.

 

[spursfan1991]

That is the accepted perspective on players. However, that's only because the bottom-line has become so important in football, and not because of supposed player-power.

Making a player who wants to leave play is difficult, but there are measures that can be taken. Both Berbatov and Keane are or were on long contracts. They are or were in absolutely no position to make threats.

Consider this. Berbatov says he wants to go to Man U. We say 'no'. He says 'I won't play'. We say 'Fine. You're dropped to the reserves and you won't play there either'. How long will it be, do you think before he comes begging to the manager to let him back on the pitch? And even if he doesn't, his red-nosed **** of a suitor isn't going to be seeing much of him either if all he's doing is warming the reserves bench week-in, week-out.

Yes, it's expensive because we'd be paying him to do nothing, although we could probably dock his wages too and he wouldn't be getting any bonuses either. Yes, it would also leave us weakened while he was being disciplined. But it would send a strong message that would serve us very well in the long-term. We would show players that once they sign a contract they can't up sticks and leave when the fancy takes them.

We just can't seem to balance it out, can we? We've gone from a position where the clubs are deemed to hold all the cards. Then the Bosman and Webster rulings come in and it seems all that the players hold all the cards. If players feel they want to hold their clubs to ransom then the clubs should be justified in dealing with the players in the harshest possible way. Otherwise all we will have is a continued cementing of the Top 4 hegemony. All it takes is for one the utter, utter bastards at the Top to come calling at it can destabilise an entire football club.

Look at the situation we're in. Right now, the uncertainty over Berbatov is causing ripples of instability from the boardroom to the bootroom. His absence from the squad today caused us problems on the field, because we were forced into playing the only viable formation available to us. This caused problems for the players, the management and the fans. The result today also showed how desperate we are to get new blood in, which will consequently lower his value and inflate the price of any transfer target we are looking at, which in turn causes problems at the board level.

It has to stop! And the only way to do it is to force players to honour the contracts they sign. If they refuse, they don't play. Look at Robbie Keane two seasons ago when he wasn't being played. He couldn't stand it, he was itching to get on the field. I think we all remember the strop he threw. And I'm guessing that that's true of the vast, vast majority of professional football players. So, if they value playing so much, then the obvious punishment when they don't fall into line is to prevent them playing. Teach them a lesson while at the same time teaching the Top 4 that they can't just swan in and poach whoever they want.

:clap:

 

[themanwhofellasleep]

Over the summer there were various players who were strongly rumoured to want to leave their clubs.

Adebayor wanted to leave Arsenal, Barry wanted to leave Villa, Ronaldo wanted to leave Man U, Keane and Berbatov wanted to leave Spurs. In the case of Adebayor and Ronaldo, both were told that they would be staying and despite some sulks, they have accepted the situation. Barry spat out his dummy, but when he realised that Liverpool weren't willing to cough up the dough, he knuckled down and worked hard for the team. Keane was sold. Which leaves Berbatov.

Barry is a good yardstick for Berbatov. Both are similar ages and are playing for teams in the UEFA Cup, but want to challenge for major honours with teams in the CL. I'd say that Barry has a stronger case for leaving, since he has given Villa years of loyal service, even when they were playing like crap. But Martin O'Neill handled the situation well, making it clear exactly what would happen and naming his price. He made it clear that if Liverpool met the price, Barry could leave, and that if they didn't meet the price, he would stay. He fined Barry for speaking out against Villa, but recognised that Barry was too good a player not to include in his teams, and played him in the league and UEFA Cup qualifiers. The result is that it looks unlikely that Barry will leave, and even if he does, the team has points on the board.

It's hard to see how the board could have handled the Berba situation any worse than they have. If he does stay then it's going to take a lot to ensure that he doesn't unsettle the team.

Isn't it amazing how quickly Spurs can turn from success and stability to soap opera chaos? Happens every two years.

 

[SpurSince57]

So we haven't named a price for Berbatov? And how do we fine him for spitting out his dummy and criticising the club when he's done no such thing?

Villa have three points more on the board than us. Whoopydo. They lost to Stoke yesterday. Didn't you notice?

Other than those minor points, an almost perfect parallel.

 

[themanwhofellasleep]

SS57, I respect your opinion, so I'd ask you: Do you think the board has handled the Berbatov situation well?

Martin O'Neill publicly stated that unless Liverpool coughed up £18m, Barry would be going nowhere. That made it perfectly clear to all suitors what the price was. It made it clear to Barry that it didn't matter how much he sulked, Villa would not be lowering their price. And he's made it clear that while he's a Villa player, he will play for the team and should expect to give his all for the club. And he was instrumental in Villa winning their opening game and getting some points on the board.

As far as I know, Spurs have never publicly named a price for Berbatov, and all we've had from the board/manager are vague statements along the line of "Well, we'd like to keep him but you never know" or "At the moment he's a Spurs player". We haven't sold him but we haven't played him when he's been available.

Three points may not seem like a lot at the moment, but getting a good start to the season is incredibly important. Look at what happened last season. We had a good team, but we started poorly and panic set in. And with the panic players started losing confidence. And as the results worsened, rumours started about Jol's future, which caused more panic and further loss of confidence. If, on the opening game of last season, we had managed to nick a win against Sunderland I don't think any of that would have happened. And similarly, if we had managed to get a point against Boro I don't think we would have lost yesterday, because the players would not have been under the same pressure. Having lost our first two games, the media spotlight is already on Spurs and the pressure is already on our players. Villa, only three points ahead of us, aren't under pressure at all.

 

[SpurSince57]

The difference is that Benitez made Liverpool's interest in Barry very public, which meant that O'Neill could equally publicly name a price. Whilst everyone knows that United want Berbatov, this has never been openly admitted, apart from Ferguson's gaffe in Norway or wherever—and that was quickly covered up. Instead, they've used their time-honoured methods of using stooges in the press.

It seems pretty clear that we've named a price and that United have come nowhere near meeting it. Even if they do so now, it's going to be next to impossible to sign an adequate replacement within a week, so it looks as if Berba will just have to lump it. I honestly don't see how the board could have played it differently—let's face it, whatever they did would have got them criticised.

Keane may have been an altogether different matter, and I'm rather less than happy about that—but then, no-one knows the full facts.