Stuff economics: make a stand

[Has1978]

Hi all,

Just wondering what your views are on this crazy theory going around: tell Manure to piss off, tell Berba to piss off to the reserves and continue to let him train with the kids until he

a) grows up and stops moaning
b) signs a new contract with us

I write as someone who's worked in the city for the best part of 10 years, am a chartered accountant etc. and understand the value of economics - and the pain of letting an asset waste. I understand that he may let his contract run down for 2 years and we get nothing for him when he's around 29.

However, the counter-argument is simple - Michael Carrick (and some might say Robbie Keane)

I'm pretty sure Carrick was tapped up in the same way Jaap Stam and Berbatov were. We sold him - got "good money" for him - and yet losing our equal best player set us back two years. Losing Berba may well have the same effect. And worryingly we will continue the Carrick precedent.

I say we just follow the "scorched earth" policy. If we can't have him no one can. He signed the contract he can damn well honour it. And if he throws tantrums we fine him and we fine him. It will send out a message I should think. Because otherwise I can quite easily see the same thing hapening with Luka Modric and Dos Santos in 1 year. Watch this space.

And, boys and girls, it can be done. We just have to want it enough. I pay £860 for my season ticket - whats a few quid more to stop us being dicked on by the Big 4 continually being their bitch, being their feeder club. I for one am sick of it (a few months ago I'd have gladly let Utd have him, us have the money and let them win).

I have a dream - next game we stand in unison, chanting "MAKE A STAND" in a hypnotic trance-like fashion - in a perhaps futile bid to shift the balance of power.

Or we could just take the money Eek.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Too late

We should have told Manu U to piss off when they wanted Carrick and we should have done the same when they were sniffing round Berbs

We didn't and it's OUR clubs (business) fault

 

[DC_Boy]

As I posted yesterday let the money men sort it out re Berbs - but for us playing-wise it's vital to get in at least one striker

we're a rich club - it's a waste of money leaving Berbs in the reserves - but if the point needs to be made - let's make it

we're rich enough to stand up to Berba and Man U- however if Berbagate is somehow preventing us getting in other strikers because of a poisoned amoshpere then get rid quickly-

I don't know why we haven't got another striker in - but if it's because of money issues that's wrong - buy in - then if if we have to make a forced sale do it

 

[milkman]

I made this point in the other thread, but slightly differently.. It's kind of a crazy idea, but could actually work! Read below:

If I was Ramos I would have a go at Berba and tell him to buck his ideas up.. I would say if he doesn't play with all his effort in training then he will not play on Sunday... and if he plays with a bad attitude then tell him that he won't be sold....

 

[Real_madyidd]

Has1978, can you do us a favour and lead by exampe?

Go out and get the best car you can afford on finance. Then park it on your driveway, and leave it there, never driving it, never selling it, just sitting there, costing you money each month in depreciation as well as the finance.

If you are willing to do that (you can even give it some bullshit about making a stand about petrol prices or pollution if you like) then the club should do the same with their asset.

 

[Adam456]

Has1978, can you do us a favour and lead by exampe?

Go out and get the best car you can afford on finance. Then park it on your driveway, and leave it there, never driving it, never selling it, just sitting there, costing you money each month in depreciation as well as the finance.

If you are willing to do that (you can even give it some bullshit about making a stand about petrol prices or pollution if you like) then the club should do the same with their asset.

Little bit different though RM:

The Berbatov/Spurs/Man U saga is closely watched by millions and reported upon widely in the press and concerns the reputational impact that selling or not selling would have thereof. The fact that Has or you or I have a nice motor or not is of supreme indifference to 99.9999999% of the population.....

 

[ultimateloner]

Disagree with your view re 'make a stand'. We have no message to send. I don't see how grounding Berba would lessen the chance of other clubs tapping our star players in the future. What are you trying to achieve?

1) If its about keeping star players, then this is surely NOT the way to go.
Big clubs are attractive and good players would want to go there. No player would stay with us if given the chance to play CL fball at Man Utd.

2) If it's about money, we could easily create some sort of performance related clause to push the final price to 30mil. Man Utd's gonna accept it is in their best interest for the transfer to go through anyway.

Therefore I don't see any point in grounding Berba.

Bear in mind also that we tapped up Ramos. What goes around comes around.

 

[Real_madyidd]

Little bit different though RM:

The Berbatov/Spurs/Man U saga is closely watched by millions and reported upon widely in the press and concerns the reputational impact that selling or not selling would have thereof. The fact that Has or you or I have a nice motor or not is of supreme indifference to 99.9999999% of the population.....

But that's my point. Our stand will make no difference, it's as worth while or rather as futile as any of us doing as I said. Plus, I am sure the press would love to hear about the Spurs fan that brough a brand new car and let it rot to pretest about Berbatov!

 

[jamesc0le]

But that's my point. Our stand will make no difference, it's as worth while or rather as futile as any of us doing as I said. Plus, I am sure the press would love to hear about the Spurs fan that brough a brand new car and let it rot to pretest about Berbatov!

especially if he lives by the coast.. it will rot alot quicker.

are you listening dimitar berbatov

 

[Max_Junglie]

If (when) we sell Berbs to Utd it will leave a sour taste but there isn't any point in keeping him if he's determined to go - he'll just stink up the reserves or the youth team with his piss poor attitude and wherever we put him he'll cause problems of one sort or another. Would shareholders be happy about the club wasting their money on a point of principle? I doubt it.

Real's right - making a stand wouldn't actually acheive anything - it might make players think twice about joining us I guess, but it won't help Spurs now and it won't stop Utd or any of the rest of the Sky 4 behaving exactly the same in the future.

As usual, it's Spurs that are getting a kicking in the press about this, and we should all be used to that by now. But I doubt it matters. The length of the Berbs saga, our poor results in the first couple of games and the apparent lack of other transfer action has given the media a golden opportunity to whip up an atmosphere of frenzied panic around the club. I doubt the gang of four, Ramos or Poyet are any more worried now than they were two months ago. I'm pretty sure we'll see Berbs out and two or three new faces in by this time next week...

 

[Kendall]

I think if we let Berbatov go to United we will get walked all over by everyone for many years to come. This is a pivotal moment in THFC's business toughness.

 

[catesy2018]

Stuff economics? I’m quite sure at the end of last season everyone was wondering where our new stadium was going to get announced. New stadium needs money.

I know were a rich club but you don’t stay rich by throwing away money

We should just sell him and move on. Divert the media away from us. Let Manure worry about Berbatov’s laziness/brilliance and let us worry about improving our squad and league position before it’s too late.

I personally don’t want to see Berba go, but I don’t want to see my club’s name dragged though the mud and made a even bigger laughing stock then its already become. Also I don’t want to see a fine player career ruined out of spite.

 

[Max_Junglie]

But surely our ability to make this stand depends on the behaviour, or professionalism, of the players we sign? We could keep Berbs rotting away in the reserves, collecting his fat wages every week - but do we do the same when Liverpool tap up GDS in 12 month's time if he refuses to play, and Modric if he does the same? OK, we'll have the finest reserve team ever to take the field and a grand sense of moral superiority, but I doubt that will make bottom half finishes and inability to attract more 'big' players any easier to take!

We're a decent Uefa cup team at the moment and, until we crack the CL, I think the reality is that we'll be stuck with signing top players like GDS and Modric forthe short terms and be forced to let them go to a CL team if we're not there ourselves. The alternative is to follow the Everton plan and get less capable players, who don't interest the Sky 4, to overperform. I'd much rather have watched a couple of seasons of Berbs at his best than a decade of Andy Johnson.
:grin:

 

[DC_Boy]

I'd much rather have watched a couple of seasons of Berbs at his best than a decade of Andy Johnson.
:grin:

me too

the thing is with a team of good pros etc like the Tofees - fine they will do ok -

but will they win anything? look at last season - how when they faced an under strength cfc in the semis they bottled it big-time

as for players like modric gds being sold i doubt they will be as 'irreplaceable' as berbs - look at carrick we sold him but went on to play better football the next season

we may have played even better with carrick of course

but we wil almost certainly carry on being a trading club - the only alternative i can see is a billionaire benefactor - yet time and again so many spurs fans say they don't want to 'buy success' as if we didn't BTW in the 60s

 

[hellava_tough]

If (when) we sell Berbs to Utd it will leave a sour taste but there isn't any point in keeping him if he's determined to go - he'll just stink up the reserves or the youth team with his piss poor attitude and wherever we put him he'll cause problems of one sort or another. Would shareholders be happy about the club wasting their money on a point of principle? I doubt it.

Real's right - making a stand wouldn't actually acheive anything - it might make players think twice about joining us I guess, but it won't help Spurs now and it won't stop Utd or any of the rest of the Sky 4 behaving exactly the same in the future.

I have to disagree.

Although having a depreciating asset is certainly not ideal, the economic benefits in the long term of making a stand in the Berbs-saga will out-weigh any short-term financial loss.

Firstly, it would ensure that the 'Top 4' would know exactly where Tottenham Hotspur FC stood when it comes to selling their prize assets, and that Spurs simply won't budge on any potential deals. Tottenham either wants to sell, or they don't want to sell.

If they don't want to sell then that's that; no deal. If they do want to sell, then a price is set in stone, and that's the end of it. Match the price, or fuck off and stop acting like a **** who's wasting everybody's time.
Gone would be months of endless transfer speculation and shit-stirring by the likes of Fergie; a process that unsettles the squad and effects results. The 'Top 4' would have to look elsewhere for someone to bully.

Secondly, our players would quickly realise that they can't fuck about; no tapping up, no throwing a strop, no cheeky leaks to the tabliods, no 'come and get me' pleas to bigger clubs. You either play for Tottenham Hotspur FC or you can sit at home on your sofa watching Trisha, getting fat, while your team mates win cups for Spurs.


Okay, it'd be pretty rough in the short-term. Players would be kicking up a fuss and some potential transfer targets might not even sign for us.

But things would slowly change. Our players would realise that they HAVE to play for us. The Top 4 would realise that they CAN'T fuck with us. And all the while we'd be holding on to our star-players and building every year. And evertually we wouldn't be 4 players short of a good team; we'd have kept hold of our Carricks, and Keanes and Berbatovs and suddenly we'd be challenging for the Premiership title.

Simply put, you must have a deterrent against your rivals. If your rivals know that you're willing to fight and to take losses to ensure that they never succeed against you, they think twice before attacking you.

So, fellow Tottenham fans. Do we grow some manhood and stand up to the 4 bullies who are systematically destroying the competitiveness of English football, or do we pussy-out like we, and every other club, have always done?

 

[dontcallme]

I still see Berbatov as a human being rather than an asset. We signed him, he played some fantastic football for us and gave us all some of the best fotball related memories we'll ever have, he has now decided he would like to play somewhere else so we should let him.

We've hired a DOF and have been building strong foundations for this club over the past 5 years so should have plans in place for when players want to leave.

I believe a happy squad, determined to help improve Spurs' position is the way forward not playing media games and making stands that no one cares about. If we'd made a deal early for Berbatov we could have had our full squad for the upcoming season in place, training together and working on how best to play together.

Instead we find ourselves in disarray desperate to sign several high quality players in the space of 5 days, I just can't see how this saga is in the best interests of the club.

 

[worcestersauce]

But surely this Berbatov saga is only about three weeks old because united had denied any interest in him until we reported them to the Premier league.
I think people are forgetting that no approach was made to the club about Berba before that so this isn't just about selling him to utd or not this is about whether utd should be successful in their deceitful underhand way of operating which has left everybody hanging and Berba in a mess.
Utd have been talking to Berba's agent about it for over a year so why not us?
In the long run it may be better to keep him, all utd have to do is pay the money after all.
If Berbatov's action at the weekend was on the advice of Utd as hase been intimated then the only response from the club has to be "am I bovvered" you pay or he stays.
Don't forget that they need him more than we need to sell him, without him they will not win the title this year they know it and Levy knows it and so quite frankly do I.

 

[Has1978]

If (when) we sell Berbs to Utd it will leave a sour taste but there isn't any point in keeping him if he's determined to go - he'll just stink up the reserves or the youth team with his piss poor attitude and wherever we put him he'll cause problems of one sort or another. Would shareholders be happy about the club wasting their money on a point of principle? I doubt it.

Real's right - making a stand wouldn't actually acheive anything - it might make players think twice about joining us I guess, but it won't help Spurs now and it won't stop Utd or any of the rest of the Sky 4 behaving exactly the same in the future.

I have to disagree.

Although having a depreciating asset is certainly not ideal, the economic benefits in the long term of making a stand in the Berbs-saga will out-weigh any short-term financial loss.

Firstly, it would ensure that the 'Top 4' would know exactly where Tottenham Hotspur FC stood when it comes to selling their prize assets, and that Spurs simply won't budge on any potential deals. Tottenham either wants to sell, or they don't want to sell.

If they don't want to sell then that's that; no deal. If they do want to sell, then a price is set in stone, and that's the end of it. Match the price, or fuck off and stop acting like a **** who's wasting everybody's time.
Gone would be months of endless transfer speculation and shit-stirring by the likes of Fergie; a process that unsettles the squad and effects results. The 'Top 4' would have to look elsewhere for someone to bully.

Secondly, our players would quickly realise that they can't fuck about; no tapping up, no throwing a strop, no cheeky leaks to the tabliods, no 'come and get me' pleas to bigger clubs. You either play for Tottenham Hotspur FC or you can sit at home on your sofa watching Trisha, getting fat, while your team mates win cups for Spurs.


Okay, it'd be pretty rough in the short-term. Players would be kicking up a fuss and some potential transfer targets might not even sign for us.

But things would slowly change. Our players would realise that they HAVE to play for us. The Top 4 would realise that they CAN'T fuck with us. And all the while we'd be holding on to our star-players and building every year. And evertually we wouldn't be 4 players short of a good team; we'd have kept hold of our Carricks, and Keanes and Berbatovs and suddenly we'd be challenging for the Premiership title.

Simply put, you must have a deterrent against your rivals. If your rivals know that you're willing to fight and to take losses to ensure that they never succeed against you, they think twice before attacking you.

So, fellow Tottenham fans. Do we grow some manhood and stand up to the 4 bullies who are systematically destroying the competitiveness of English football, or do we pussy-out like we, and every other club, have always done?

:clap: This was going to be my response to those who don't get the point. Cheers mate you saved me the trouble. And you wrote it better than I would have.

 

[hellava_tough]

:clap: This was going to be my response to those who don't get the point. Cheers mate you saved me the trouble. And you wrote it better than I would have.

Cheers Has

 

[Legend10]

In my opinion this issue has become much bigger than being about Spurs and Berbatov.

I believe that this is a pivotal moment in English football and that Spurs and Aston Villa (Barry) need to stay firm and say a categoric no. The players are contracted to us and we are prepared to deal under our terms and that is it.

both clubs have been and are being put under enormous pressure by the media to buckle but it is vital for football in this country that they don't.

Personally I would now be happy to see Berbatov left to rot in the reserves for the remaining 4 years of his contract and see his career effectively finished as his behaviour has been disgraceful and disrespectful to everybody connected with Spurs and most of all the people who support Spurs from all over the world.

However due to our PLC status Berbatov and United are likely to get their way, what a shame for football as a whole.