TACTICS WATCH: The Dier-Vertonghen Conundrum

[scat1620]

To steal from the L'Oreal adverts, "here comes the science part":

AXIOM
Pochettino will continue to play Toby Alderweireld, Jan Vertonghen and Eric Dier in a 4-2-3-1 formation (until we sign a new central defensive midfielder, if indeed we ever do that)

PROBLEM (dubbed The Dier-Vertonghen Conundrum by the worldwide scientific community)
Eric Dier isn't a central midfielder - how do you best set up a team to win that doesn't play 3 at the back but that is starting TA/JV/ED every week come hell or high water (as per the axiom)?

PROPOSED SOLUTION
Eric Dier is a better defender than he is a footballer. Jan Vertonghen is a better footballer than he is a defender. Therefore, you could... [dun dun dun!] ...play Eric Dier in defence with Toby, and play Jan Vertonghen in midfield. Which would result in the better defender playing to his strengths and the better footballer playing to his strengths. QED.

Feel free to send my Nobel Prize to my forwarding postal address, I'll pick it up after I've finished with my next project to nail Cold Fusion...

 

[THOWIG]

I keep saying this, but we already have an outstanding defensive midfielder at our club. The problem is he doesn't want to play there.

The solution could be to play Vertonghen as a sweeper.

 

[scat1620]

I keep saying this, but we already have an outstanding defensive midfielder at our club. The problem is he doesn't want to play there.

The solution could be to play Vertonghen as a sweeper.

I'd say play Vertonghen as a DM (assuming we don't sign one by the end of the window) or don't play him at all, on current form. Both Dier and Alderweireld seem far more defensively solid than Jan does.

 

[thePessimist]

I would drop Verts, put Dier at CD with Toby and play 'insert midfielder's name here' with Mason. I can't believe we're experimenting with one of the most important positions in the team 3 games into the season!

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Verts defending for Mahrez goal was all wrong, he's supposed to show him onto his weaker foot and instead he showed him onto his stronger foot. BASICS.

Anyway yes if we must play a cb at defensive midfield I'd definitely prefer Vert there instead of Dier. If not Vert needs to go on the bench.

 

[SteveH]

Vertonghen should be benched - he has been very scratchy this season. Not good enough, time for Poch to tell it as it is
Drop Jan he needs a kick up the ass!

Zimmer maybe a good one to bring on for some game time - but Jan is limp!

 

[JAYSTAR]

While I do agree that Vertonghen is looking off the pace and liable to make mistakes, he is seriously exposed whenever Davies plays. Yesterday Davies was doing exactly what Rose used to do. Caught out of position, sometimes in the middle of the pitch and supposedly trying to get back to the middle to allow Vertonghen to push left. He pretty much never made it. I'm sorry to anyone who loves Davies, but I do not rate him. He is not fit enough or aware enough to play in this system successfully ATM and needs to hurry up and learn when he is safe to attack and when he cannot. As much as I am frustrated with Vertonghen, Leicester were constantly sending the ball over to their right to double team Vertonghen and Poch's poor strategy was being exposed with Davies out of position over and over again. We need players who can spot the problem 'in game' and counter act what's happening. They seem scared to think for themselves.

 

[we_all_loved_freund]

Problem is Jan is a senior player and would be upset about being made to play there. ED doesn't seem to like playing there either. However, a disgruntled ED is much easier to deal with than a disgruntled Jan.

 

[sundanceyid10]

Problem is Jan is a senior player and would be upset about being made to play there. ED doesn't seem to like playing there either. However, a disgruntled ED is much easier to deal with than a disgruntled Jan.

Who gives a shit if Vertonghen doesn't like it, tough shit! play better or be benched. We can't have a culture of people being picked just because they are a senior player. He has been poor at the start of the season.

 

[mightyspur]

Verts defending for Mahrez goal was all wrong, he's supposed to show him onto his weaker foot and instead he showed him onto his stronger foot. BASICS

Defending well when jockeying a player isn't just about showing him onto his "weaker" foot. A lot of (read most) professional players are just as proficient with either feet. Verts did the right thing showing him the outside, the problem was he let him get inside, but then Davis let him down from being out of position. Verts could have done better, but it wasn't all his fault.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Defending well when jockeying a player isn't just about showing him onto his "weaker" foot. A lot of (read most) professional players are just as proficient with either feet. Verts did the right thing showing him the outside, the problem was he let him get inside, but then Davis let him down from being out of position. Verts could have done better, but it wasn't all his fault.

While some players are strong with both feet I think it was quite clear that Mahrez was looking to come inside so Verts should have showed him away from goal. Just watched it again on goals on Sunday and Kamara and Stuart Pearce also said the same thing. Also he could have went tight to him before he started running towards goal but he just backs of and backs of. So sorry but I don't think Verts did the right thing at all.

 

[mightyspur]

While some players are strong with both feet I think it was quite clear that Mahrez was looking to come inside so Verts should have showed him away from goal. Just watched it again on goals on Sunday and Kamara and Stuart Pearce also said the same thing. Also he could have went tight to him before he started running towards goal but he just backs of and backs of. So sorry but I don't think Verts did the right thing at all.

Perhaps I'm mis remembering, but I thought Verts was showing him the outside I.e. away from goal. He just got turned too easy and Mahrez came inside

 

[philip]

While some players are strong with both feet I think it was quite clear that Mahrez was looking to come inside so Verts should have showed him away from goal. Just watched it again on goals on Sunday and Kamara and Stuart Pearce also said the same thing. Also he could have went tight to him before he started running towards goal but he just backs of and backs of. So sorry but I don't think Verts did the right thing at all.

Except that not long before, they had shown Mahrez onto the outside and he had cracked a shot against our inside post.

 

[ebzrascal]

Verts defending for Mahrez goal was all wrong, he's supposed to show him onto his weaker foot and instead he showed him onto his stronger foot. BASICS.

Anyway yes if we must play a cb at defensive midfield I'd definitely prefer Vert there instead of Dier. If not Vert needs to go on the bench.

Mahrez should not have been able to get one on one with Verts in the first place that was the issue. Mahrez can go either way so Verts was in big trouble.. The problem was the midfield/forwars did not do their job in cutting out the supply to him.. The goal was caused by lack of pressing higher up the pitch and as well as too big a gap between our midfield and defence which allowed a long diagonal ball to take half our team out the game!!

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Except that not long before, they had shown Mahrez onto the outside and he had cracked a shot against our inside post.

But what's better? Showing him onto the outside onto his weaker foot or showing him onto the inside on his stronger foot?

 

[sbrustad]

Perhaps I'm mis remembering, but I thought Verts was showing him the outside I.e. away from goal. He just got turned too easy and Mahrez came inside

wink wink, nudge nudge

 

[Sarsipius]

I disagree with the supposition that Verts is good enough to play DM. Dier's a better footballer and defender IMO.

 

[cliff jones]

While I do agree that Vertonghen is looking off the pace and liable to make mistakes, he is seriously exposed whenever Davies plays. Yesterday Davies was doing exactly what Rose used to do. Caught out of position, sometimes in the middle of the pitch and supposedly trying to get back to the middle to allow Vertonghen to push left. He pretty much never made it. I'm sorry to anyone who loves Davies, but I do not rate him. He is not fit enough or aware enough to play in this system successfully ATM and needs to hurry up and learn when he is safe to attack and when he cannot. As much as I am frustrated with Vertonghen, Leicester were constantly sending the ball over to their right to double team Vertonghen and Poch's poor strategy was being exposed with Davies out of position over and over again. We need players who can spot the problem 'in game' and counter act what's happening. They seem scared to think for themselves.

The system doesn't allow much of this though does it? The fbs provide the width and as such are asked to push on. Davies is simply following orders, is he not? I'd love to see Rose back in asap though.

 

[SteveH]

Who gives a shit if Vertonghen doesn't like it, tough shit! play better or be benched. We can't have a culture of people being picked just because they are a senior player. He has been poor at the start of the season.

Time for Poch to get tough with some

 

[muppetman]

Hasn't Toby got the experience of playing as a CDM? I'm sure I read that somewhere and his comments when he signed basically said he'd play wherever the team needed him?