The anti-Stratford protests begin!

[dimiSpur]

Agreed. The idea that we'll somehow be losing the moral high ground over Arsenal is ridiculous and sounds like it comes from someone who hates Arsenal more than he loves Spurs.

If it was the sole reason behind not wanting to move I'd agree.

But given the reasons behind those opposing the move are well documented, I'd say that's a ridiculous statement.

 

[EastLondonYid]

I see this arguement pop up a lot. Just how proud are you that we've not moved? Do Arsenal fans really care for your pointy jests or "Wandering Pikey"?

I think that anyone who raises this as an argument is clutching at straws or has such little understanding of how the world including football has moved on in 100 years, that they fail to see flexibility as a strength opposed to steadfastness.

If a WHU fan calls me a wandering pikey after the move, I'll laugh and agree, then say, "Jealousy makes you nasty"[/quote]

wow......that would tell him......how about "sticks and stones" grow up!

 

[michaelden]

ELY - you've made my point for me. It is childish to be concerned what others think. So why raise it as an argument against moving?

:lol:

 

[talkshowhost86]

If it was the sole reason behind not wanting to move I'd agree.

But given the reasons behind those opposing the move are well documented, I'd say that's a ridiculous statement.

Don't get me wrong I'm not belittling the other arguments and incidentally I'm still waiting for a reply to the email I sent to Spurs yesterday before fully taking a side on the debate myself.

But using the 'Arsenal might call us names' argument seems to me both childish and largely irrelevant to a massive issue.

 

[dimiSpur]

Don't get me wrong I'm not belittling the other arguments and incidentally I'm still waiting for a reply to the email I sent to Spurs yesterday before fully taking a side on the debate myself.

But using the 'Arsenal might call us names' argument seems to me both childish and largely irrelevant to a massive issue.

I know what you mean't. I'm just surprised to see such naivety on the whole from so many fans who can't see the "NPD is costing too much" excuse from the Club is nothing more than a smokescreen to get a stadium that will make THFC easier to sell on.

We've known for a while that CL+Stadium=Spurs4Sale.

The NDP project was the dogs bollocks according to the Club this time last year. What's changed? Section 106? 16m and we can't build a new stadium then? No way.

The OS might be a little cheaper, but IMO it's only an option if the NDP get ridiculously overpriced, i.e stupid money demands from council or it proves impossible to build, which it isn't as we've already secured building permission.

I firmly believe Stratford is in the firm interest of the current owners, not THFC. There's a big difference in that. The owners will find it easier to sell on with the OS. I also believe they've had a whisper from a prospective buyer saying "get Stratford and we'll buy", hence why in the space of 2 months, the NDP from the most exciting new stadium in Europe, has become an unviable option and the Stratford site has become the new Wembley.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I know what you mean't. I'm just surprised to see such naivety on the whole from so many fans who can't see the "NPD is costing too much" excuse from the Club is nothing more than a smokescreen to get a stadium that will make THFC easier to sell on.

We've known for a while that CL+Stadium=Spurs4Sale.

The NDP project was the dogs bollocks according to the Club this time last year. What's changed? Section 106? 16m and we can't build a new stadium then? No way.

The OS might be a little cheaper, but IMO it's only an option if the NDP get ridiculously overpriced, i.e stupid money demands from council or it proves impossible to build, which it isn't as we've already secured building permission.

I firmly believe Stratford is in the firm interest of the current owners, not THFC. There's a big difference in that. The owners will find it easier to sell on with the OS. I also believe they've had a whisper from a prospective buyer saying "get Stratford and we'll buy", hence why in the space of 2 months, the NDP from the most exciting new stadium in Europe, has become an unviable option and the Stratford site has become the new Wembley.

Well at least that's a more sensible argument than 'Arsenal will be nasty to us'.

Alot of that though is complete conjecture and can't be backed up with any sort of evidence. Even if Levy is planning to sell as soon as we move stadium that would be the case wherever the stadium ends up surely? Also if Levy believes that the OS is a better selling point for prospective buyers that's also good for the club. The more potential buyers there are the more likely we will be to get the right person in for the club.

There seems to be a feeling on here that any business dealing to do with football is bad and I think that is what is naive. Yes ENIC's first interest is in getting the best deal for themselves, but that doesn't mean it would be bad for Spurs.

 

[danielneeds]

Stop it...your making too much sense.

I don't think i could ever stop supporting spurs, its massive in our house, my 2 sons ,daughter and even wife...are all spurs through and through..

but i agree with everything you say......i don't get anyone who doesn't mind moving.

We harp on about the scum being from Woolwich 100 years ago, and now think its ok if we move out of north london....Hypocrites!!

like i said before, you don't really know who your arguing with on football sites, and what the club really means to them.

Tbh, it is only some pretty sad sacks who harp on about Arsenal being from Woolwich. It's ancient history, they moved here, and they became more successful than us. It is spilled milk, stop crying about it.

Yeah, they would probably give us stick if we moved, but I could take it, because I know they would rather we had to stay in our small dilapidated stadium, or get saddled with millions of pounds of debt trying to build a new one, and continue to be their bitches.

The alternative, which they secretly fear, is that we move easily and cheaply into Stratford and have the economic power to build a dynasty that may put them into the shadows for many years to come.

 

[dimiSpur]

Well at least that's a more sensible argument than 'Arsenal will be nasty to us'.

Alot of that though is complete conjecture and can't be backed up with any sort of evidence. Even if Levy is planning to sell as soon as we move stadium that would be the case wherever the stadium ends up surely? Also if Levy believes that the OS is a better selling point for prospective buyers that's also good for the club. The more potential buyers there are the more likely we will be to get the right person in for the club.

There seems to be a feeling on here that any business dealing to do with football is bad and I think that is what is naive. Yes ENIC's first interest is in getting the best deal for themselves, but that doesn't mean it would be bad for Spurs.

I could say the same for the belief that the NDP project will cost considerably more than Stratford though couldn't I?

For someone yet to make their minds up on the thing, you seem to be leaning well towards moving. What are you going to be doing when you've placed your alliance in the pro-Stratford gang?? Murder Lamy?!

 

[dimiSpur]

Tbh, it is only some pretty sad sacks who harp on about Arsenal being from Woolwich. It's ancient history, they moved here, and they became more successful than us. It is spilled milk, stop crying about it.

Yeah, they would probably give us stick if we moved, but I could take it, because I know they would rather we had to stay in our small dilapidated stadium, or get saddled with millions of pounds of debt trying to build a new one, and continue to be their bitches.

The alternative, which they secretly fear, is that we move easily and cheaply into Stratford and have the economic power to build a dynasty that may put them into the shadows for many years to come.

Firstly, the Olympic Stadium isn't going to be given to us for free. You really think buying it off the comittee, knocking it down and rebuilding a similar stadium to the NDP stadium will cost 200m? Err, ok!

Secondly, Arsenal have been saddled with similar debt to what the NDP project will cost, yet give it 10 years and they'll be one of the richest Clubs in world football.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I could say the same for the belief that the NDP project will cost considerably more than Stratford though couldn't I?

For someone yet to make their minds up on the thing, you seem to be leaning well towards moving. What are you going to be doing when you've placed your alliance in the pro-Stratford gang?? Murder Lamy?!

Yes you could because as of yet there's no clear evidence as to the costs of the two projects. That was exactly what I emailed the club about yesterday and I'll post the response when/if I get it.

I'm not leaning towards moving. My point is and always has been that we shouldn't stay in Tottenham at all costs. If it was a straight choice between the two I'd pick Tottenham every time. But if Stratford is considerably cheaper and will therefore help the club massively going forwards (not to mention the fact that it could make the club a more viable investment for potential buyers) then I think we have to seriously consider that.

The problem is that we don't have the full information yet. The people who are against the move therefore are arguing against something they don't know much about. If the argument is 'Tottenham at any costs' then that's fine, that's their opinion. But I certainly don't agree with it.

 

[danielneeds]

Firstly, the Olympic Stadium isn't going to be given to us for free. You really think buying it off the comittee, knocking it down and rebuilding a similar stadium to the NDP stadium will cost 200m? Err, ok!

Secondly, Arsenal have been saddled with similar debt to what the NDP project will cost, yet give it 10 years and they'll be one of the richest Clubs in world football.

Of course it is not going to be free, it will be cheaper though. Plus they will be able to get more money for naming rights, and sell the land at WHL. We will be making profit in a matter of seasons after moving in.

When was the last time Arsenal spent some serious money on a player? Do you think we would survive in the elite without spending for ten years? They have Wenger's genius for spotting young talent and it has kept them competitive. They also had the Highbury flats, which even though the property market has dipped, was still very handy in recouping some the cash they borrowed.

 

[Hoowl]

Yes you could because as of yet there's no clear evidence as to the costs of the two projects. That was exactly what I emailed the club about yesterday and I'll post the response when/if I get it.

I don't think it's down to absolute cost. I think it's because factors such as the partnership with AEG, the extra money we'll get from naming rights and corperates mean the financial risk is significantly less.

 

[Welshiespursboyo]

Tbh, it is only some pretty sad sacks who harp on about Arsenal being from Woolwich. It's ancient history, they moved here, and they became more successful than us. It is spilled milk, stop crying about it.

Yeah, they would probably give us stick if we moved, but I could take it, because I know they would rather we had to stay in our small dilapidated stadium, or get saddled with millions of pounds of debt trying to build a new one, and continue to be their bitches.

The alternative, which they secretly fear, is that we move easily and cheaply into Stratford and have the economic power to build a dynasty that may put them into the shadows for many years to come.

Agree with that 100%.

I don't mind the club moving if it makes sense financially. As others have said, if both costs were more or less similar, then of course, I'd prefer to stay in Tottenham.

If it made much more sense financially, however, then I'm more than happy for us to move to Stratford. We shouldn't be held back by some people's desire to cling onto our heritage....it's not about the past, it's about the future. I want a glorious future and if moving to Stratford is the best way to ensure that, then fuck it, bring it on.

 

[mattdefoe]

it probably is already in the thread, but is that a skysports box ? is there someone standing on it waving there arms.

 

[dimiSpur]

Yes you could because as of yet there's no clear evidence as to the costs of the two projects. That was exactly what I emailed the club about yesterday and I'll post the response when/if I get it.

I'm not leaning towards moving. My point is and always has been that we shouldn't stay in Tottenham at all costs. If it was a straight choice between the two I'd pick Tottenham every time. But if Stratford is considerably cheaper and will therefore help the club massively going forwards (not to mention the fact that it could make the club a more viable investment for potential buyers) then I think we have to seriously consider that.

The problem is that we don't have the full information yet. The people who are against the move therefore are arguing against something they don't know much about. If the argument is 'Tottenham at any costs' then that's fine, that's their opinion. But I certainly don't agree with it.

Yes, but once again that works both ways! Those supporting the move and saying we should move are doing so without knowing fully exactly what the costs are. They're just taking vague reports of the OS costing 200m as gospel and ranting and raving about how backwards anti-Stratford fans are. They are doing the complete opposite in other words, suppporting something they don't know the full information on.

Once we have the information we need to compare the two projects, then we can make an informed decision on our opinions.

However I, unlike some, believe that those saying they'd rather we stay at 36.000 WHL than 60.000 Stratford have a point. They don't just feel that way for the sake of it, they feel that way for what could be a number of reasons. That's what makes THFC special, the fact there's so many people that despite the area being a dump, connect with the WHL surroundings. We've been there since 1899, it's easy to see why fans are regarding this as an unacceptable move.

I'm opposed to the move. But I'd love to see the list of figures to see exactly what we would gain from moving to East London and ending our North London traditions.

 

[michaelden]

I could say the same for the belief that the NDP project will cost considerably more than Stratford though couldn't I?

For someone yet to make their minds up on the thing, you seem to be leaning well towards moving. What are you going to be doing when you've placed your alliance in the pro-Stratford gang?? Murder Lamy?!

eh, no. I clearly explained the costs of a project and in particular those associated with preperation of the site. Since we wouldn't have to do this at the OS we would make a saving from the outset. Then the land in Tottenham can be sold on adding to the cash used to pay off any loans etc...

 

[dimiSpur]

eh, no. I clearly explained the costs of a project and in particular those associated with preperation of the site. Since we wouldn't have to do this at the OS we would make a saving from the outset. Then the land in Tottenham can be sold on adding to the cash used to pay off any loans etc...

Sorry didn't realise the project manager was a member. Apologies :roll:

 

[SpurSince57]

I shall be intrigued to learn how Levy believes we can build a 60,000 seat stadium at Stratford and completely refurbish Crystal Palace for the same cost as building a 60,000 seat stadium at WHL.

 

[dimiSpur]

I shall be intrigued to learn how Levy believes we can build a 60,000 seat stadium at Stratford and completely refurbish Crystal Palace for the same cost as building a 60,000 seat stadium at WHL.

You omitted the costs to actually buy the site, and the costs of actually knocking down the site. And the costs of obtaining planning permission for all this.

 

[EastLondonYid]

Tbh, it is only some pretty sad sacks who harp on about Arsenal being from Woolwich. It's ancient history, they moved here, and they became more successful than us. It is spilled milk, stop crying about it.

Yeah, they would probably give us stick if we moved, but I could take it, because I know they would rather we had to stay in our small dilapidated stadium, or get saddled with millions of pounds of debt trying to build a new one, and continue to be their bitches.

The alternative, which they secretly fear, is that we move easily and cheaply into Stratford and have the economic power to build a dynasty that may put them into the shadows for many years to come.

your forgot to write IN YOUR OPINION....

Don't worry you won't get any stick i'm sure, only sad crying sacks like me would.:roll:


We are never going to agree.