The beginning of the end...

[Primativ]

Lol at this meltdown. In 3 weeks this will all be forgotten.

I will say, i think this started with Poch and his insistence on Kane always being in the XI whenever available. A player who even when fit(which has been rare)
has not been performing like he is able to for 2 years. He used to drag this team out from the doldroms on the pitch 2-3 years ago. Now he just dithers, does sweet fuck all then gets hurt then is right back in the XI. Players see that and get disenchanted. Especially when others who deserve the place in the team after being a hero countless times get dropped for him. Poch will sort this out but i do feel like its time Kane is sent a message. His bs should not be tolerated anymore.

Absolute madness mate. Kane walks into any side in the world. He's playing naff because the formation and tactics are all wrong, Poch isn't getting the best out of them, the attacking movement yesterday and for ages has been diabolical. It all comes back to Poch, if the players aren't busting a gut, Poch clearly isn't motivating them.

You can't expect Kane to score 30 yarders every week. He isn't even being created chances for. Our style of play is non existent, we create fuck all chances, it's clear to see we are a hugely dysfunctional team and have been for a year now.

Do you think Kane would play like this in a Klopp or Guardiola side? He'd score 40 a season.

 

[sparx100]

It's not a blip for sure. We have played fairly turgid football for a a year. Thing is that our squad on paper is extremely strong.

We got 4th place last season through Arsenal and United being worse than us in the run in for last season.

There are things that just seem odd =

- The slow paced side to side passing with no creativity.
- The lack of any form of press.
- The form of the whole team and a lack of urgency.
- Poch getting more prickly with the press.
- Poch dropping our best defender and continuing to play Sanchez on the left hand side.

Let's be honest Poch has loads of time in the bank but I don't understand why we are not performing and why he can't change tactics/motivate the team to play for him currently.

 

[arunspurs]

Just saying we weren't doing brilliantly without Kane like you stated. We got knocked out of 2 cups and limped to victories against poor sides in games we could've easily drawn or lost.

Personally dont see any Kane related issues. But I am merely stating a fact on when our 2018/19 season started to turn. Already said too its all could be a coincidence. Anyway, dont want to dwelve on this too much here...because my larger point is , I am not surprised when ValenciaYid is saying Poch lost the dressing room going by whats happened since Feb

 

[Ronwol196061]

How fucking foolish was it to cash in on Dembele!

Every dressing room to have a good culture needs that one player who is universally respected as a figurehead. That was Dembele for us. The guy who all the players cited as the best player at the club. The guy who Pochettino labelled a genius and one of the best he'd ever worked with (and he's played with Ronaldinho and some other big name stars). The guy when things were in trouble in the pitch you give the ball to because he had the presence and swagger to put out the fire.

We haven't replaced him on the pitch (hopefully Ndombele will prove to be in time) but we're missing his leadership. The fact is most of our senior players now with the exception of Lloris and Son seem to have problems. Alderweireld's situation has dragged for over a year, Eriksen is not committed beyond this season, Vertonghen has some unknown issue with the manager, Rose was effectively transfer listed in pre-season and Kane is half the player he was pre-injuries. At least with Dembele there was never any trouble in his commitment and relationship with players and manager.

I liked Dembele but never saw him as a leader.
Whether Poch allowed him to go forward or not from the CM view is a question nobody can answer I don't think but while he played the role well he rarely turned it into opportunities.
He did control the middle and rarely list possession but never made too many key passes with that..he usually passed it on or played it off.
Leader in control but not in making things happen. Still good for us

 

[Timberwolf]

Absolute madness mate. Kane walks into any side in the world. He's playing naff because the formation and tactics are all wrong, Poch isn't getting the best out of them, the attacking movement yesterday and for ages has been diabolical. It all comes back to Poch, if the players aren't busting a gut, Poch clearly isn't motivating them.

You can't expect Kane to score 30 yarders every week. He isn't even being created chances for. Our style of play is non existent, we create fuck all chances, it's clear to see we are a hugely dysfunctional team and have been for a year now.

Do you think Kane would play like this in a Klopp or Guardiola side? He'd score 40 a season.

Completely agree. Kane is absolute class and would tear it up for a team that played to his strengths...like we used to do .

 

[Primativ]

Completely ignores the fact we've been playing like absolute shite for a year now though. The fact is, there's been a ready made excuse for the poor performances for ages, which has masked the decline. We finally moved into the new stadium and we've been diabolical there really. New season we should have started like a house on fire, but we've laboured to a spawny win over Villa, if it wasn't for that fluke deflection that fell in Kane's path for the equaliser, we'd probably have lost that one nil too. Imagine losing to villa and newcastle at home in your first two league games of the new season. Two of the worst sides in the league. On top of that you go to your rivals place who you are supposed to be competing with, and get wiped the floor with.

Seeing the City game last week is when I realised Poch's tenure is broken, it finally hit home. Yesterday just backed it up.

 

[yankspurs]

Absolute madness mate. Kane walks into any side in the world. He's playing naff because the formation and tactics are all wrong, Poch isn't getting the best out of them, the attacking movement yesterday and for ages has been diabolical. It all comes back to Poch, if the players aren't busting a gut, Poch clearly isn't motivating them.

You can't expect Kane to score 30 yarders every week. He isn't even being created chances for. Our style of play is non existent, we create fuck all chances, it's clear to see we are a hugely dysfunctional team and have been for a year now.

Do you think Kane would play like this in a Klopp or Guardiola side? He'd score 40 a season.

No i csnt expect 30 yard screamers. I can expect someone to do more than he does at the moment. This is not Kane’s best. We havent seen his best 2 years.

 

[spursfan77]

Absolute madness mate. Kane walks into any side in the world. He's playing naff because the formation and tactics are all wrong, Poch isn't getting the best out of them, the attacking movement yesterday and for ages has been diabolical. It all comes back to Poch, if the players aren't busting a gut, Poch clearly isn't motivating them.

You can't expect Kane to score 30 yarders every week. He isn't even being created chances for. Our style of play is non existent, we create fuck all chances, it's clear to see we are a hugely dysfunctional team and have been for a year now.

Do you think Kane would play like this in a Klopp or Guardiola side? He'd score 40 a season.

Spot on

We were lazy in attack against Villa and lazy again yesterday.

If we had done a few quick passing moves we would of cut them open, but our play was so slow, obvious and side to side. It was really easy for them too defend against. There was zero movement again on top of this. It's strange because in preseason we looked completely different and a return to the old spurs under Poch. I think maybe the players think they can just turn up and win games like these, opponents will roll over for the champions league runners up. Well, guess what chaps at THFC, it doesn't work like that.

 

[Timberwolf]

Personally dont see any Kane related issues. But I am merely stating a fact on when our 2018/19 season started to turn. Already said too its all could be a coincidence. Anyway, dont want to dwelve on this too much here...because my larger point is , I am not surprised when ValenciaYid is saying Poch lost the dressing room going by whats happened since Feb

Yeah sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread. Only reason I brought it up is cos I've seen a fair few people state that we're better without Kane and use that period as an example, when in reality we were largely pretty shit without him and our best period last season was when both him and Son played together.

 

[yankspurs]

Would behoove everyone here to read this article.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Spot on

We were lazy in attack against Villa and lazy again yesterday.

If we had done a few quick passing moves we would of cut them open, but our play was so slow, obvious and side to side. It was really easy for them too defend against. There was zero movement again on top of this. It's strange because in preseason we looked completely different and a return to the old spurs under Poch. I think maybe the players think they can just turn up and win games like these, opponents will roll over for the champions league runners up. Well, guess what chaps at THFC, it doesn't work like that.

That shows you the lack if direction they have.
Against City they were reacting to City.
Against Villa and Newcastke they lacked direction

 

[richard_gleeson]

Agree with the idea that Poch needs everyone on the same page to play his way. The problem with Poch is not so much the fire that he created inside the players,which they didn't seem to have for this game,its bigger than that.Its the fact that his system is limited,that he himself seems to have a hard time in changing things.In that way he is a one trick pony I think.When the one trick works its great,when it doesn't he looks for answers to why it doesn't as he really hasn't shown he can change the system. yesterday everyone was running around like headless chickens.

Actually Poch has tried various different systems over the last 2 years. 3 at the back, diamond etc... But maybe thats the problem, he needs to actually stick to a philosphy and style. You don't see Pep deviate from his philosophy or formation, Klopp also will play the same way regardless. Our philosophy should be work hard, flying full backs and high press like it was before. It's all drifted away too much.

 

[yankspurs]

Are we only capable in thinking in the negative? Everyone is just torturing themselves here today like SC is lacking a BDSM thread that I thought @Houdini would have set up by now. Let’s see how we feel this time next week, next month, instead of kidding ourselves that this isn’t a knee jerk pit of pessimism we’re intent on drowning ourselves in.

And to think, you’re all usually such a delight after a defeat.

This is SC after a transfer window. Only negativity allowed after a loss.

 

[Chimbo!]

Before we get carried away, we should remember that we often start seasons badly under Poch. And we always have a total flop at home to a bottom team. So I don’t think we can read too much into the Newcastle game.

Of greater concern is that poor league form since February. But there were mitigating circumstances: a champions league run and a lengthy injury list. We’ve made signings to address that.

So without more evidence, there’s little reason to believe this is the end. Perhaps we might finish outside the top 4. Would that be reason to part ways with Poch? No. The progress has been outstanding and we should trust him when things go wrong.

 

[mrlilywhite]

@Sissoko1234 No, what I'm saying is that he hasn't progressed enough to warrant his inclusion as a first-team starter - in other words, he isn't good enough for what we want to achieve. There are a lot of times where Winks wouldn't look out of a place for a competitive Championship team. That's my opinion though, so feel free to show me why you might think he is good enough

 

[ljinko888]

Absolute madness mate. Kane walks into any side in the world. He's playing naff because the formation and tactics are all wrong, Poch isn't getting the best out of them, the attacking movement yesterday and for ages has been diabolical. It all comes back to Poch, if the players aren't busting a gut, Poch clearly isn't motivating them.

You can't expect Kane to score 30 yarders every week. He isn't even being created chances for. Our style of play is non existent, we create fuck all chances, it's clear to see we are a hugely dysfunctional team and have been for a year now.

Do you think Kane would play like this in a Klopp or Guardiola side? He'd score 40 a season.

Guardiola doesn't always start Aguero who is 10x more dynamic than this version of Kane. And Liverpool have a formula working without a traditional 9. Kane wouldn't start in their set up.

He's not pressing for us anymore yet he'd magically up his level for them. FWIW his England performances have not been too impressive either. He's not the best English forward anymore.

 

[rossdapep]

Absolute madness mate. Kane walks into any side in the world. He's playing naff because the formation and tactics are all wrong, Poch isn't getting the best out of them, the attacking movement yesterday and for ages has been diabolical. It all comes back to Poch, if the players aren't busting a gut, Poch clearly isn't motivating them.

You can't expect Kane to score 30 yarders every week. He isn't even being created chances for. Our style of play is non existent, we create fuck all chances, it's clear to see we are a hugely dysfunctional team and have been for a year now.

Do you think Kane would play like this in a Klopp or Guardiola side? He'd score 40 a season.

Exactly. Take a screenshot of any of our attacks yesterday and you've got four of our players lined up in attack, all making the same runs. Defenders are finding it easier and Kane isn't getting the space he used to. That's purely down to movement.

I keep referring to it but 15/16 and 16/17 Kane had Alli and Eriksen drifting around him, all making different runs. Then Sonny would drift wide and cut in. It's much harder for defenders because they don't know who to pick up and they then get isolated with Kane who can then be more deadly.

I don't know what's going on on the training ground but this has stopped. Players are either too static bunched in the middle waiting for the ball (dream scenario for defenders as they can see everyone and cover the space.) or they are running into similar areas.

Watch City. They don't smother Aguero or Jesus. The likes of Bernardo, De Bruyne dictate from deep but then explode into an overlap, underlay or late run into the area. The likes of Sterling start wide and cut right in to open space on the flanks.

The difference between us and them is night and day. Creativity is an issue but our movement - or lack of - is causing us the biggest issues right now.

 

[scat1620]

@yankspurs being the calming influence in this thread: human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria.

 

[Primativ]

Guardiola doesn't always start Aguero who is 10x more dynamic than this version of Kane. And Liverpool have a formula working without a traditional 9. Kane wouldn't start in their set up.

He's not pressing for us anymore yet he'd magically up his level for them. FWIW his England performances have not been too impressive either. He's not the best English forward anymore.

Kane is incredibly dynamic if he's playing at his level. He's suffering from the the wider issues in the team.

 

[arunspurs]

Before we get carried away, we should remember that we often start seasons badly under Poch. And we always have a total flop at home to a bottom team. So I don’t think we can read too much into the Newcastle game.

Of greater concern is that poor league form since February. But there were mitigating circumstances: a champions league run and a lengthy injury list. We’ve made signings to address that.

So without more evidence, there’s little reason to believe this is the end. Perhaps we might finish outside the top 4. Would that be reason to part ways with Poch? No. The progress has been outstanding and we should trust him when things go wrong.

I am pretty sure, Poch has fans backing even now.

But I dont agree with the sentence 'we should trust him when things go wrong'....
We could trust him, but what if he is losing trust from players ?

If ValenciaYid is saying Poch has lost the dressing room is true, then all these trust factors with fans is meaningless...because if thats true, he is done. No manager survives after losing the dressing room. And this is start of season. He doesnt have the opportunity to sell all those who are against him. Well technically he could with a week to go in EU. But realistically, he cant do anything now.