The Cricket Thread

[PCozzie]

With the forecast the way it was and being so ahead in the game, I am not sure the merits of batting so long as we did.
Thought Lunch was the perfect time to declare.

That extra 90ish minutes could've easily bought a few more wickets and possibly even a time extension if the win looked possible.
Seemed a very un Bazball decision.

There was mention during this evening's session that the thinking was always to keep Australia behind on the scoreboard to maximise the pressure. If England had declared with a lead of (eg) 200 then the pressure starts to lift when Australia get in front and start building a lead (which they'd possibly be doing about now were that the case).

So I can see why England kept batting. Either way, whether chasing a relatively small target, or having to bowl the Aussies out without needing to bat again, England will need a session and a half from here to get the job done. Now it's down to the weather.

Edit to add: In effect, England did their run chase this afternoon, rather than Sunday evening.

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

There was mention during this evening's session that the thinking was always to keep Australia behind on the scoreboard to maximise the pressure. If England had declared with a lead of (eg) 200 then the pressure starts to lift when Australia get in front and start building a lead (which they'd possibly be doing about now were that the case).

So I can see why England kept batting. Either way, whether chasing a relatively small target, or having to bowl the Aussies out without needing to bat again, England will need a session and a half from here to get the job done. Now it's down to the weather.

Edit to add: In effect, England did their run chase this afternoon, rather than Sunday evening.

I think this is really important. Nobody can really criticise England for not declaring because the only reason they’re in this position is because of how ridiculously quickly they made their runs.

 

[PCozzie]

I think this is really important. Nobody can really criticise England for not declaring because the only reason they’re in this position is because of how ridiculously quickly they made their runs.

Yeh, if you're scoring at that rate it doesn't really matter when you get them, just pile them up.

 

[Monkeyman]

It’s going to be gutting if the weather decides the destination of the ashes and we are robbed of a 2-2 decider at the Oval, which feels like it would be a fitting end to a brilliant series.

 

[Impspur1]

With the forecast the way it was and being so ahead in the game, I am not sure the merits of batting so long as we did.
Thought Lunch was the perfect time to declare.

That extra 90ish minutes could've easily bought a few more wickets and possibly even a time extension if the win looked possible.
Seemed a very un Bazball decision.

It the added runs have scoreboard pressure and removed the need for us to bat again

 

[Yid-ol]

With the forecast the way it was and being so ahead in the game, I am not sure the merits of batting so long as we did.
Thought Lunch was the perfect time to declare.

That extra 90ish minutes could've easily bought a few more wickets and possibly even a time extension if the win looked possible.
Seemed a very un Bazball decision.

Without the extra runs, they would probably be ahead in the game with a few more wickets down. Meaning we would still need to take a few more and then bat again. I think most people expected Sunday to have some play, but it's just looking worse each update for it now.

 

[Yid-ol]

It’s going to be gutting if the weather decides the destination of the ashes and we are robbed of a 2-2 decider at the Oval, which feels like it would be a fitting end to a brilliant series.

England messed up in the first game declaring too quickly. If they had batted a little more then it would be 2-1 up. Only ourselves to blame for that and some poor fielding in the second game also (if I remember correctly)

 

[Monkeyman]

England messed up in the first game declaring too quickly. If they had batted a little more then it would be 2-1 up. Only ourselves to blame for that and some poor fielding in the second game also (if I remember correctly)

We’ll never know for sure what happens if they don’t declare first day. I seem to remember there were very few overs left day 5, so they might have run out of time anyway. We’ve absolutely cost ourselves with poor fielding at times too. But there will always be things like this that either side can point to across a series. Losing 150+ overs out of a match to rain is an external factor beyond the control of either team.

 

[Impspur1]

We’ll never know for sure what happens if they don’t declare first day. I seem to remember there were very few overs left day 5, so they might have run out of time anyway. We’ve absolutely cost ourselves with poor fielding at times too. But there will always be things like this that either side can point to across a series. Losing 150+ overs out of a match to rain is an external factor beyond the control of either team.

But 2 days of rain when you have dominated so much is a tough one to take

 

[Monkeyman]

But 2 days of rain when you have dominated so much is a tough one to take

My point exactly. Just hope the forecast is better than it currently looks.

 

[theShiznit]

It the added runs have scoreboard pressure and removed the need for us to bat again

I feel the overly optimistic declaration from the first test clouded the judgement of today, as even conservative captains were expecting a declaration at lunch or shortly after.

It seemed obvious with the forecast that bowling them out today was maybe the only chance of winning.

 

[dvdhopeful]

Yea the decision to bat on just seemed something akin to the Root era rather than the Stokes era, even at 180ish ahead it felt it was there or there abouts, time rather than runs always appeared to be the issue.

 

[LeSoupeKitchen]

Yea the decision to bat on just seemed something akin to the Root era rather than the Stokes era, even at 180ish ahead it felt it was there or there abouts, time rather than runs always appeared to be the issue.

I'd say the conservatism was more akin to the Cook era!

We supposedly don't fear chasing down any total so piling so many runs made no sense. Yes runs may be easier now but runs are more in your control than getting wickets. At least we could have a go at knocking off 200 runs with only 20 overs of play available in a must win game.

You could see they were getting a bit antsy in the dressing room and I think the desire for YJB's ton clouded their judgement. So yet again this is all YJBs fault .

I just don't understand why we pushed the game on so hard in the first two tests when we had all the time in the world. And then in this test on the evening of Day 2, Brook was batting at a SR of 30 with the sun out and already a 1st innings lead.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I just don't understand why we pushed the game on so hard in the first two tests when we had all the time in the world. And then in this test on the evening of Day 2, Brook was batting at a SR of 30 with the sun out and already a 1st innings lead.

Maybe, because they are learning. Had we pushed on and collapsed the same people complaining here would be moaning about that.

Whatever happened yesterday had absolutely no bearing on the final result and what I don't understand is people complaining that it would. However you couch it, England are in a magnificent position (and people are complaining, I mean, seriously ) and what decides this test match will be the weather.

This is all micro analysis, it's what we do, find the negatives. If this were even a thing it's not that much of one.

 

[LeSoupeKitchen]

Maybe, because they are learning. Had we pushed on and collapsed the same people complaining here would be moaning about that.

Whatever happened yesterday had absolutely no bearing on the final result and what I don't understand is people complaining that it would. However you couch it, England are in a magnificent position (and people are complaining, I mean, seriously ) and what decides this test match will be the weather.

This is all micro analysis, it's what we do, find the negatives. If this were even a thing it's not that much of one.

I wouldn't call it complaining - it's being critical which is what cricket is all about. This match has of course been 99% positive.

I'm just a bit frustrated because we've finally played the perfect version of bazball we've all been screaming for at the one time the suicidal version would have probably been more appropriate.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I wouldn't call it complaining - it's being critical which is what cricket is all about. This match has of course been 99% positive.

I'm just a bit frustrated because we've finally played the perfect version of bazball we've all been screaming for at the one time the suicidal version would have probably been more appropriate.

OK critical..................ultra critical I mean, 99% positive and we're talking about the one percent?

I definitely wouldn't say being critical is what cricket is all about though

If it came over as having a pop then i'm sorry, not my intention really, I guess my frustration is that there's always a complaint. Whatever way England went about it yesterday, someone would be saying they got it wrong, at the end of the day, it's not as if it were an outrageous decision or some blatantly poor piece of Joe Root captaincy

 

[dvdhopeful]

I wouldn't call it complaining - it's being critical which is what cricket is all about. This match has of course been 99% positive.

I'm just a bit frustrated because we've finally played the perfect version of bazball we've all been screaming for at the one time the suicidal version would have probably been more appropriate.

Agreed, it isn't complaining at all it's just discussing the cricket....

To A&C, Id also suggest an extra hour and a half to bowl a team out rather than get unneeded runs, is just common sense when yesterday was potentially all the play this test would see. Looking back over comments, if we had pushed on and collapsed I don't think the mass majority would moan at all, I'd have personally been delighted as we'd be bowling sooner.

The weather probably will now end the game but we had a chance yesterday to take that into account and didn't. The extra time to bowl still might not have been enough but we may now never know, 6 wickets in an hour and a half is hardly unheard of.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Agreed, it isn't complaining at all it's just discussing the cricket....

To A&C, Id also suggest an extra hour and a half to bowl a team out rather than get unneeded runs, is just common sense when yesterday was potentially all the play this test would see. Looking back over comments, if we had pushed on and collapsed I don't think the mass majority would moan at all, I'd have personally been delighted as we'd be bowling sooner.

The weather probably will now end the game but we had a chance yesterday to take that into account and didn't. The extra time to bowl still might not have been enough but we may now never know, 6 wickets in an hour and a half is hardly unheard of.

The extra runs scored versus the lesser number of runs they'd need to make us bat again. Of course the runs were needed. When it all pans out I'm not sure there's as big a difference as you're suggesting.

 

[dvdhopeful]

The extra runs scored versus the lesser number of runs they'd need to make us bat again. Of course the runs were needed. When it all pans out I'm not sure there's as big a difference as you're suggesting.

If they would have made us bat again I suspect we wouldn't have been chasing much, the dangling carrot of making us bat again could also have made them open up a bit, so no, I don't think the runs were needed at all.

I've also said I've no idea if the extra time to bowl would have made any difference but with the weather looming, in my opinion, batting on served no purpose.

Fingers crossed we see some dry spells, Wood cleans up and all of this is irrelevant because we win anyway.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

They wouldn't have opened up, they only need the draw, why would they?

Here's a rough estimate for you, providing my rough working out holds up

Declare 90 minutes earlier means we'd have faced what? 18-20 overs less? Our innings lasted 107 overs so rewind to when Stokes was out at 437-5 in the 84th over, declare then, take roughly 160 runs off our total and the scores would be roughly level right now with 6 wickets in hand. They could afford to take their time. IMO there's no way that's a better scenario than what we have now.

All huge guesswork on my part, if we get a break in the weather I think we'll be glad of those extra runs.