The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 18th July

[Dan Yeats]

I think this could be a sure sign that you are in for a HUGE disappointment

Is that a cryptic? Huge as in HULKING?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Carr's as much of a genius as Commolli, sign highly rated players and it's a gamble, some pay off, others don't.

I can't think of too many players that anyone with a passing interest in football wouldn't have wanted to be linked with. Even Benni was rated highly enough in France before Commolli 'unearthed' him.

My issue is the fact we have sold our best players for big money and failed to adequately replace them time and time again. This needs to change. We're still missing a Berbatov replacement ffs, Carrick was another, heartbeat of the side different to Luka, but a critical player.

We were on the cusp of Top 4, we sold our best players, failed to replace them properly by taking a series of low(ish) punts on various foreign and domestic names, it went tits up. It took a new (and very good IMO) manager and sizeable investment to finally get us into the Top 4. Since then other teams around us and above us have strengthened and we've relatively faltered in the market, losing out on the CL 2 seasons running now. Some of the punts have paid off, but a lot have failed.

DL didn't back Harry because he was on his way etc. Harry wanted two top class players to push us on, we ended up with 2 loans. Now AVB's in and you'd expect Levy to back him, talk of a warchest and every fucking player under the sun and what have we got so far? Vertonghen (running out of contract) who's been signing since last year it would seem, Gylfi from left field (young, Prem-proven and relatively cheap...punt for a superstar) and hoping for Adebayor tied up. Big things happening? Err, let us know when it's happening. It's well fucking overdue IMO if we've any chance of getting near the Top 4 again, especially when Modders fucks off.

We know other clubs have more spending power, yet pre the CL season the Spanish wheelbarrow was out, although I suspect it was more a time share. City and Chelsea can't buy all the players for fuck sake, it's about time we got our arse in gear and made some progress with strengthening the squad.

King out - Vertonghen in
Modric out - Gylfi in

...is what it's looking like at the moment. Is it strengthening yet? Even if Ade signs permanently I still don't see we're any stronger than last year, apart from the fact that hopefully Ade would be available from the very start of the season.

Strengthening is well past due IMO, cost us too much already. Penny-pinching saves money short term, but can cost a lot too and has cost us a fair bit already in the bigger picture IMO.

I don't know what you do for a living or even if you are working age, but you post like you have absolutely no comprehension whatsoever of how even the most basic business works and in particular how our club needs to work.

Your fond of calling people who discuss tactics know nothing amateurs, and yet you seem happy to tell Levy how he should be running his business, despite the fact that in the time he has been at the helm we have grown both the footballing success and business success continually.

You seem to ignore the fact that Levy's backing of Redknapp was heavily front loaded, to the tune of about 100m+ in his first 3/4 windows. How Levy managed this with a business that turns a relatively small average profit (about a 20th of that investment on average per year over the last few years I would guess) is a fiscal miracle in itself. The unfortunate thing is that Redknapp, whilst having his good points, was unable to improve a single player he actually bought with that money and we found ourselves with a lot of negative equity (added to some bad purchases made by Comolli as well like Pav, Bentley etc).

And no lack of investment could explain how under Redknapp's tenure we fucked up CL twice having put ourselves in the position to make it comfortably. It was not a lack of investment that saw us win 9 home games in 2010-11, it was bad management.

It was not lack of investment that saw us fail to turn a ten point advantage into third place lat year, it was bad management. Players bought by Redknap like Bassong, Kranjcar and Pienaar were wasted.

We could not budget based on CL football even the first season we came fourth because it still doesn't guarantee CL football.

Up until the last year our accounts have been public. Why not read the fucking things, before ranting about how we should be spending money we simply don't have. Get a grip of the simple economics of the balance and profit/loss sheets and you will perhaps realise the stupidity of your constant whining.

 

[HappySpur]

Spoiler

I don't know what you do for a living or even if you are working age, but you post like you have absolutely no comprehension whatsoever of how even the most basic business works and in particular how our club needs to work.

Your fond of calling people who discuss tactics know nothing amateurs, and yet you seem happy to tell Levy how he should be running his business, despite the fact that in the time he has been at the helm we have grown both the footballing success and business success continually.

You seem to ignore the fact that Levy's backing of Redknapp was heavily front loaded, to the tune of about 100m+ in his first 3/4 windows. How Levy managed this with a business that turns a relatively small average profit (about a 20th of that investment on average per year over the last few years I would guess) is a fiscal miracle in itself. The unfortunate thing is that Redknapp, whilst having his good points, was unable to improve a single player he actually bought with that money and we found ourselves with a lot of negative equity (added to some bad purchases made by Comolli as well like Pav, Bentley etc).

And no lack of investment could explain how under Redknapp's tenure we fucked up CL twice having put ourselves in the position to make it comfortably. It was not a lack of investment that saw us win 9 home games in 2010-11, it was bad management.

It was not lack of investment that saw us fail to turn a ten point advantage into third place lat year, it was bad management. Players bought by Redknap like Bassong, Kranjcar and Pienaar were wasted.

We could not budget based on CL football even the first season we came fourth because it still doesn't guarantee CL football.

Up until the last year our accounts have been public. Why not read the fucking things, before ranting about how we should be spending money we simply don't have. Get a grip of the simple economics of the balance and profit/loss sheets and you will perhaps realise the stupidity of your constant whining.

BEST.POST.EVER

 

[Jay The Yid]

I've said it before and I will say it again........ The only thing that will get us challenging is MASSIVE investment in the form of a takeover. Chelscum or shitty style.

Unfortunately that is the way the game is going.

The only so called ITK that has been muted is that of a takeover that has got me excited. Anything else is just meh..

Sad but true.

It's all a bit shit isn't it? Football these days in this country is soulless and shit.

 

[marvel]

Hear that? That's the sweet sound of someone having their arse handed to them

 

[Original # 10]

Top post BC
I didn't think they allowed Carlsberg on London buses these days?

 

[Makkaveli101]

I think he would be a disaster because he's just not that good

He's a decent player, got over hyped via a good season in the Championship and a decent half season in the PL with Newcastle and Liverpool made a crazy offer for him that far surpassed his actual worth.

He's a good player, just not a great player and he was over hyped. His next move won't be shit or bust because he is still an effective PL level striker he will just return to his level (and I guess be happy for the money he made while Liverpool fell for his hype)

He's not a top 6 striker but he would be good for probably any team below that level and any team that plays long balls and wants a Ducan Ferguson style player to make waves and bully defenders.

Not good enough for us and wouldn't suit our style, over hyped and over priced but if Liverpool and Carroll himself accept his realistic value I have no doubt he will go on to be a decent PL striker in a midtable outfit, I am sure he would be great at an Aston Villa or Stoke for example.

What he isn't is a £35m world class striker or the new Alan Shearer, he is the rebirth of Duncan Ferguson in my eyes and that means while he's not a superstar he is a decent striker who can and will be effective in the right team.

Great points, and I agree with much of what you say. I wouldn't have him as first choice, but surely we could do a lot worse than having him as one of our (3?) strikers? As we saw with Ade last season, it was valuable having a player who can fashion chances for teammates with his head? Who can outmuscle big PL centrebacks, hold up the ball and bring others into the game.

If we had a set of Adebayor, <insert natural finisher with pace here>, and Carroll - I'd say that would be a pretty good strikeforce. Better than Defoecrouchenko!

Edit: I doubt anyone is going to pay £20m for him (however much LiverFool want that price), can't see who would - £15m tops maybe.

 

[Dan Yeats]

I've said it before and I will say it again........ The only thing that will get us challenging is MASSIVE investment in the form of a takeover. Chelscum or shitty style.

Unfortunately that is the way the game is going.

The only so called ITK that has been muted is that of a takeover that has got me excited. Anything else is just meh..

Sad but true.

It's all a bit shit isn't it? Football these days in this country is soulless and shit.

Or maybe we can be the first club in the modern era to do it the right way.

What a source of pride that could be.

 

[Jay The Yid]

Or maybe we can be the first club in the modern era to do it the right way.

What a source of pride that could be.

Wish you was right but am afraid you are dreaming. As it stands we have NO chance.

 

[Brazilyid]

Love getting my first neg rating for pointing out we don't play long ball. This thread has gone mad. Need some ITK big time

 

[AngerManagement]

Great points, and I agree with much of what you say. I wouldn't have him as first choice, but surely we could do a lot worse than having him as one of our (3?) strikers? As we saw with Ade last season, it was valuable having a player who can fashion chances for teammates with his head? Who can outmuscle big PL centrebacks, hold up the ball and bring others into the game.

If we had a set of Adebayor, <insert natural finisher with pace here>, and Carroll - I'd say that would be a pretty good strikeforce. Better than Defoecrouchenko!

Edit: I doubt anyone is going to pay £20m for him (however much LiverFool want that price), can't see who would - £15m tops maybe.

I'd be more than happy with him as a sub, I dunno (actually I doubt) he would fit in with the AVB style of play and I don't think he has the hold up or link play to lead the line for a club of our ambition.

Also I think he probably would prefer to be a starter for an Everton or a Sunderland than a sub for us if I am honest and his wage is probably 80k plus and I simply don't think he's worth that where as a team like West Ham might be well up for paying him that if they get him at a reduced rate.

Personally I think West Ham and Carroll would be a perfect fit actually, he has similar qualities to Carlton Cole but is better than Carlton Cole and has a close relationship with Nolan.

He probably wants Newcastle but personally I think both Cisse and Ba are better strikers, but they'd probably want him back as they love to have one of their own.

 

[HappySpur]

Love getting my first neg rating for pointing out we don't play long ball. This thread has gone mad. Need some ITK big time

It's long been rumored that WDC Spur is Dave Bassett

 

[Dan Yeats]

Wish you was right but am afraid you are dreaming. As it stands we have NO chance.

History suggests that you're right.

But making history is what we're meant to be about.

 

[panoma]

Hope we soon start to get linked to more realistic targets. So Moutinho is to expensive, yet ppl now talk bout Hulk? Always the same drill, beeing linked to big names and all failing due to fee or wages.

Refreshing reading about Sturridge and Adrian the last week, cause thats decent players that we could get. Every window we get linked to superstars and none ever happens, so rather we try for some cheaper alternatives so we get a good pre season!

 

[Makkaveli101]

Wish you was right but am afraid you are dreaming. As it stands we have NO chance.

Not sure. We were unlucky at the Etihad...if we'd have grabbed 3 points that day, and remained consistently good until the end of the season winning the games we were supposed to win, getting point/s against our other rivals (like we did two seasons before)...and with the addition of some more quality players....who knows.

Citeh and ManUre both had poor spells in the season. I'm not saying anything is ever that easy...but I thought we looked breathtaking and awesome at times last season. The REAL DEAL. With a couple more additions, a stronger mentality, and consistency...who knows.

 

[KingNick]

Jay the yid and Paolo sitting in a tree..

Match made in heaven.

 

[KingNick]

I know we have become accustomed to our manager never telling the press the truth but when avb says he has no interest in the Geordie gypo I think we should believe him

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

I've said it before and I will say it again........ The only thing that will get us challenging is MASSIVE investment in the form of a takeover. Chelscum or shitty style.

Unfortunately that is the way the game is going.

The only so called ITK that has been muted is that of a takeover that has got me excited. Anything else is just meh..

Sad but true.

It's all a bit shit isn't it? Football these days in this country is soulless and shit.

I disagree, if we get a new 60,000 seat stadium and unlike the goons can achieve that without huge debt through sponsorship or other investment then we will have similar financial clout to Chelski without needing to be run as the personal play thing of a loony.

Even if that doesn't happen we proved in the first 7 months of last season that you don't need oligarch money to compete, what matters is how you spend it. 18 months ago Comrade Roman spent 75 mil on Torres and Luiz, since then we've bought Verts and Toon bought Cisse both for 9mil and I'd argue that those 2 are better in their respective positions having cost 57 mil less.

The same will be true this summer, to repeat the obvious Chelski and Citeh can't buy everyone. If Chelski buy Oscar I can't see them realistically buying Schurlle or Jovetic who would be excellent additions for us (just 2 examples).

I'd rather Dan Levy than Roman Abramovic, I am confident we will eventually overtake them and when we do we will be in a much better state as a club. COYS

 

[HappySpur]

Jay the yid and Paolo sitting in a tree..

Match made in heaven.

And here is said tree

Spoiler

 

[panoma]

Fairly sure that tree is taken.

If u saw the whole picture u would see Ben doing his ITK'ing from the top