The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 21st July 2015

[@Bobby__Lucky]

JJ on Tom Carroll situation/if he is part of MoPo's plans:
bit unfair for him to put it on Twitter

Not entirely sure what he means...

That was me that asked the Q... Key element for me was the ""

 

[HappySpur]

That was me that asked the Q... Key element for me was the ""

I don't have twitter and I don't think it was one of the two I saw earlier in this thread.

What was asked/answered?

 

[quackers]

from the villa end. theVilla heirarchy would much rather a season long loan than an outright purchase. Ade would need a sweetner from somwhere but nothing like a full pay off.

Problem with that is that a couple of injuries means some of the seniors are then playing matches every three days. It's a balancing act but we have to make sure we are covered this time round.

A little more to add from this mornings update re Ade..... Tim is very one eyed regarding Ade atm and his Benteke replacement list is basically only one name long. This is great news for us, and for Ade, but no so much for Lerner and more so Fox who would rather a loan with a possible clause to make permanent in January. We obviously would prefer a perm arrangement now. There is interest in Carroll and also another one of ours, but unlikely they will be part of any Ade deal as it is just too complicated financially.

As far as incomings are concerned if things go to plan, then don't expect any surprises.

Thanks for update - Have you been banned from COYS?

 

[SargeantMeatCurtains]

JJ on Tom Carroll situation/if he is part of MoPo's plans:
bit unfair for him to put it on Twitter

Not entirely sure what he means...

Probably because he is being used as a sweetener in the Ade to Villa deal...

 

[Snarfalicious]

Your quite right to spot this style of progression, but this style has ben with us for some time now. We buy potential and this sometimes turns very profitable in a business and footballing sense, sometimes not.

We rarely buy instant upgrades, or world beaters - can you name a few?

I think we can always take transitional years because what is the difference ? Between 5th and 6th place ? I cannot see teams below the 6th spot, such as Swansea, Southampton, ...Stoke ? Challenging us. But what your saying is, is that it is another year of not breaking into the top 4.

This can likely happen with an aggressive transfer tactic like Man Utd are employing this season, and Liverpool to an extent. This means spending a lot of money on known talents - but hey this might not work out but the losses are much bigger. You can say that we might have learnt from when we did this with the Bale money. This transfer strategy is safer. I think it bolsters us to Remain in the fight, and at least qualify for Europa - not the end of the world, as has been for most of our recent years. Remain and maintain.

However if for whatever reasons things dont work out transfer wise we don't lose out that much at all, the risks are smaller - with more burgeoning talent to hopefully step in like last season and fill our weaknesses - progression might be Slower, but it is safer and more steady IMO.

In recent years, Eriksen (despite AVB taking time to give him consistent minutes), Lloris, Vertonghen and even Dembele (who was rather good upon his arrival) could be considered players that were brought in to improve the First XI. I might even throw Chadli in there even though he wasn't successful until his second season.

In more recent years we most definitely have been burned in regards to spending on what would be considered more "proven" talent. The list is long and it's hugely unfortunate.

I think the problem becomes when you focus a bit too much on potential rather than what could be considered a known product. Lloris, Vertonghen, Eriksen all were what I would consider to be proven talents with varying levels of ability to improve further.

In my original post I referred to being concerned about potential repercussions of a season that did not live up to expectations. I highly doubt Levy will be satisfied with another season finishing 5th, fair or not. And, should that happen, we truly run the risk of losing just about all of our premier players (and I'm not sure about Poch's job security at that point given our history).

I feel like this side is very, very close to being complete. The drive and morale appears to be better than I can recall in recent years and the excitement of the upcoming youth is fantastic. But, there needs to be some quality (current quality, not down the road quality) brought into this squad to take some of the onus off of the youth and allow them to play a bit more freely by knowing the success of the club is not entirely on their generally-green shoulders.

I hope that all makes sense, writing on my phone never helps.

 

[rawhide]

How can Chelsea still affords this type of transfer, I thought Financial Fair Play was meant to stop this kind of thing....

They sell a load of players for profit. Recent sales would include Luiz, Lukaku, de Bruyne, Cech (and Luis once he goes) so they can splash the cash once per window.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

I don't have twitter and I don't think it was one of the two I saw earlier in this thread.

What was asked/answered?

I asked if Tom was in Maurice's plans? The answer indicated that he wasn't but it's not for twitter and added a ""

 

[HappySpur]

I asked if Tom was in Maurice's plans? The answer indicated that he wasn't but it's not for twitter and added a ""

Thanks for the response. I don't think JJ would want that in the RO so I won't put it in there.

 

[gazzeh]

We've already sold 4 CMs though....

Yep. Only got 12 left

 

[THOWIG]

JJ mentioned in January that we were preparing for a massive clear out in the summer. Looks to be spot on

 

[nailsy]

They sell a load of players for profit. Recent sales would include Luiz, Lukaku, de Bruyne, Cech (and Luis once he goes) so they can splash the cash once per window.

Plus Champions league income.

 

[Indisguise]

Aren't we all making the congratulatory speeches a bit early? If and when we go into the new season without missing any key position players that don't end up being filled by kids under pressure to do more than should be expected of them, then perhaps that would be a better time to celebrate.

 

[@Bobby__Lucky]

Thanks for the response. I don't think JJ would want that in the RO so I won't put it in there.

Yeh thats why i didnt share it on here but as others did, better to clarify as its quieter than a whole buch of question about it... cool

 

[Krafty]

Carroll is at that difficult age - needs to be plenty the majority of games, but not quite good enough to do that with us, and he won't get good enough unless he plays plenty of games.

With Alli looking to be in the cup competitions from the off, and moving into the league side by the end of the year, Bentaleb impressing in training (given a role further up the pitch?), Mason, Winks, Dembele all competing for a 'squad' place, and the clamour for a DM, where does Carroll fit in? You only keep him if he's the answer long term, otherwise he is in the way of others.

Glad re:Adebayor ITK, although with Villa being the only side really in for him, we might end up paying a pretty penny to subsidise his wages. Worth it though.

All in all, the club finally seems to be acting an effective yet still prudent manner. Those we don't want are sold fairly quickly, anyone we desperately want gets signed, and players in between are kept happy but not overvalued, either to sell or to buy and Poch seems happy to have a few fringe players to manage, or gaps to fill in the squad with youngsters.

Still a tad perplexed we've bought two more centre backs though, following on from the two we signed last summer.

 

[gerishep]

JJ mentioned in January that we were preparing for a massive clear out in the summer. Looks to be spot on

We're always having a massive clear out.

 

[smudger]

A dm and a forward. We've done OK but I wish he would have tied up one of those by now.

Yeah of course but I bet all clubs / fans would like that, but the reality is you sometimes have to wait and most business is done last two weeks which is turning into a bit of a cliche now (not Gael) but is true, end of the day a forward won't start at old Trafford and will only be back up, so that leaves dm and who knows what will happen next few days leaving a little bit till kick off, most teams in same position as us

 

[voxy28]

I am not too worried since our starting 11 not gonna change much except Toby... So our squad still intact and I hope they step up one more level this season.

Btw where is Lamela, Soldado? Still on leave?

 

[only1waddle]

A dm and a forward. We've done OK but I wish he would have tied up one of those by now.

It would be great if we had yes, but we've had ITK plenty of times about bigger fish circling some of our targets, the reality is we need to wait until the CL clubs have lost interest and moved onto another player, I would rather wait and fill these last 2/3 positions with better quality.

 

[terryalan]

Thanks for update - Have you been banned from COYS?

well he is no longer posting there

 

[Scorpio666]

I am not too worried since our starting 11 not gonna change much except Toby... So our squad still intact and I hope they step up one more level this season.

Btw where is Lamela, Soldado? Still on leave?

Lamela was involved in the Copa America so will still be on leave.