The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - DEADLINE DAY 31st August 2021

[spursfan77]

Question for those saying Levy was right to step in because Traore was too much money....

Where is your cut off point? For me transfers are either in the hands of the DOF or they aren't. In the morning we were ALL
hearing we were going back in for him(that's multiple sources) with a bid that they would accept, that was 100% the plan. By early afternoon that had changed because he was too expensive, and it was only one person that decided it was too much money.

Had the line been we don't have the budget to pay that much all along I'd have been fine with it, but it wasn't. So either the money for it was never there and Levy was leading Fab and Nuno etc on, or it was there and Levy didn't want to spend it.

The line when Fab came in was that he'd get a budget and there would be no interference.

I know some think it's great because they didn't want him anyway, or he was over priced. I've said the same I wasn't keen tbh, but that is not the point. The point is where do you draw the line. If he can veto one player at the last minute, how many more will he do in the future.

Well, that’s what we don’t know and it goes towards the essence of what ENIC really want for the club. If the money was there and they didn’t want to spend it, then it tells us all we need to know about their intentions. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case, but also, most transfer windows since the stadium has been up and running we have done what they have said, invest everything produced from it back into the playing staff. None of us will know the truth until the accounts are out (and they aren’t that much use with not reflecting the real time situation). What we do know historically is that they will never go the extra mile required.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Levy undermined the system HE put in place, put in place largely because of criticism that he was too involved in football matters. Not to mention the fact that all he's actually achieved here is yet another massive case of shooting himself in the foot. He almost had some of us fooled, now, going forward, he's left himself open to the same accusations every time. Paratici will almost certainly be seen as Levy's bullet proof vest, there to silence or deflect the criticism. He may as well not have bothered and carried on as before.

How people can see this as justifiable or find ways to, seems a bit odd to me.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Levy said the popcorn you can make in the microwave is “just as good” and you’d be mad to spend that £26.95 when there are products equal or > to already on the market.

Then, if you're such in expert in the subject and aren't going to listen, why hire an expert in popcorn makers in the first place.

 

[Hakkz]

Levy undermined the system HE put in place, put in place largely because of criticism that he was too involved in football matters. Not to mention the fact that all he's actually achieved here is yet another massive case of shooting himself in the foot. He almost had some of us fooled, now, going forward, he's left himself open to the same accusations every time. Paratici will almost certainly be seen as Levy's bullet proof vest, there to silence or deflect the criticism. He may as well not have bothered and carried on as before.

How people can see this as justifiable or find ways to, seems a bit odd to me.

He could even have used the Traore transfer to prove a point. If he would have let them go on and sign him, and Traore turned out to be a flop, then he could use that to say that it didn't go any better when he wasn't involved. But nah, the bald control freak does what he does.

 

[the lad]

If the structure looks like Paratici has "the plan" the one that picks out the players that we have scouted and the manager needs, then he have to get those players cleared by our transfer committee. If members in the committee (Daniel) says that this transfer is to risky from a financial point of view does not mean that they interfere in fotball sayings its just how our structure works right ?

To make such a big fuss about not spending/splash 45-50m pounds on Traore, come on....

You lost me after referring to Levy as Daniel.

 

[DogsOfWar]

I guess Hercules' post goes a long way to explain why Harry Kane felt he had to leave to be successful, he knows it's part of a pattern.
The bit that really concerns isn't the holding back the money it's the reason given for holding back the money, if he genuinely believes Bergwijn is as good and can't see that Traore is an upgrade and we could have recouped half the money back by moving Bergwijn on. Maybe he didn't feel it was enough of an upgrade for the outlay but that's not his job now he gave that decision to the new managing director of football.
Sounds a bit like Levy thought of the budget as a limit and Paratici thought of it as a target, I'd hope the shortfall carries over but I wouldn't bank on it.
Let's hope we can get another couple of windows out of our managing director of football before he's had enough.

I don't believe we could.
When a player is purchased his value is moved onto the books as an asset which is then amortised over the length of his contract.
So if we bought him for £25 million it's reduced by £5 million every year.
If another club offer £20 million for him after a year that fee purely replaces his asset value, there is no profit available to be used for another purchase.

It's why it's better to move on the likes of Toby, Sissoko, Lamela etc who have no value than players like Steve or Ndombele who haven't been here very long and their value hasn't risen.

 

[E17yid]

I know there were loans with options and stuff and I won’t pretend I’m some financial expert or anything but by my reckoning, considering the global economic situation and the fact we’ve watched a fuck load of revenue go down the toilet with no fans in the stadium last season, we’ve spent a lot of money this window.

What was the net budget he was given and what would our total net spend had been if we spunked £50m on Traore with a good wad (£30 plus mil) being paid upfront?

Seems to me Levy was well within his rights to pull the plug on this one seeing what we laid out for Romero, Gill and Emerson. Maybe if we hadn’t already got those players in you’d say ok why didn’t we just get him if that’s who they wanted. I just can’t get my head around Levy, at the start of the window, saying here’s £150 million don’t worry too much about using revenue from player sales just go out and spend it. Maybe that is what he said to him but with everything that has gone on financially I find it hard to believe.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

Surely it is not DL's first time to interfere otherwise Kane is already a Citeh player. Whether Paratici was pissed off worries me more than not signing Traore. He is far more valuable.

 

[Trix]

I wanted Traore but I assumed one of Moura or Bergwijn would be out the door to make room for him.

I'm a manger in a £500+ million turnover business and to justify an increased headcount in my team someone has to either leave or I need to justify it based on a large increase in workload.
Neither of these are the case with getting another wide attacker in (as we already have four) so I understand why Levy would not sanction it (just as my MD wouldn't).

Again, I don't like it, but I understand it.

I run my own business and I get your point. Thing is you can not equate any other business to that of running a football club there are just far too many differences both in the way assets appreciate/depreciate and how performance is measured. I'm sure as a manager at a £500mill business you aren't going to get dogs abuse from 60000 people on the weekend if you have a poor 90 minutes, nor will you be slagged off by every media outlet in the country.

 

[longtimespur]

Sorry I’ve always been a bsodl. But I’m not sure if I will be now. How can Levy put in place a man to do a job and then contradict him? Daniel just cannot let go !!!
I sincerely hope this isn’t the end for F P. He seems to have worked wonders with some creative deals for the betterment of our playing squad.
I wouldn’t blame him if he walked away, I just hope he’s a stronger man than that.

 

[Duke of Northumberland]

Levy undermined the system HE put in place, put in place largely because of criticism that he was too involved in football matters. Not to mention the fact that all he's actually achieved here is yet another massive case of shooting himself in the foot. He almost had some of us fooled, now, going forward, he's left himself open to the same accusations every time. Paratici will almost certainly be seen as Levy's bullet proof vest, there to silence or deflect the criticism. He may as well not have bothered and carried on as before.

How people can see this as justifiable or find ways to, seems a bit odd to me.

I think it’s because JJ’s ITK was that they as a committee all agreed ultimately. Conflicting info and confirmation bias all over.

 

[Trix]

Surely it is not DL's first time to interfere otherwise Kane is already a Citeh player. Whether Paratici was pissed off worries me more than not signing Traore. He is far more valuable.

Difference is that was set in stone and understood prior to Fab starting. Levy was always dealing with that one.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I think it’s because JJ’s ITK was that they as a committee all agreed ultimately. Conflicting info and confirmation bias all over.

I'd take a look at the last two posts in the ticker if I were you

 

[thekneaf]

Surely it is not DL's first time to interfere otherwise Kane is already a Citeh player. Whether Paratici was pissed off worries me more than not signing Traore. He is far more valuable.

This for me, how it sits with the other transfer committee matters, not how it sits with us.

 

[E17yid]

So what was our budget this window then. What was he told he was allowed to spend?

 

[leray]

Levy interfered in appointing Gattuso because of social media backlash, it was a matter of time before he interfered in a transfer because of financial reasons.

If we were told two months ago that Levy vetoed a Mendes' transfer for 50 mil, then we'd probably be happy. Back then Paratici was a pawn in Mendes' hands and referred as Para titi, right now it's a different story. But I guess context is important.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Just a bit of fun

The club have just announced that our chairman has, in an effort to get us to apply salt to all info, shelled out for an offical THFC gritter to assist in the application of said salt......

He did however, overrule the expert he hired to find a suitable gritting lorry in favour of this model.

Spoiler

 

[parklane yid]

Equally we was also told that paratici is a master of loan deals and getting players very cheap. I believe the project was clear to paratici from day one. You can see you commitment to the job from all in charge.

 

[worcestersauce]

I don't believe we could.
When a player is purchased his value is moved onto the books as an asset which is then amortised over the length of his contract.
So if we bought him for £25 million it's reduced by £5 million every year.
If another club offer £20 million for him after a year that fee purely replaces his asset value, there is no profit available to be used for another purchase.

It's why it's better to move on the likes of Toby, Sissoko, Lamela etc who have no value than players like Steve or Ndombele who haven't been here very long and their value hasn't risen.

I understand the little accountant view and the different columns book keeping but ultimately 45 - 20 = 25.
The other column is the difference in profit that success brings and it would seem that the coach and the managing director of football felt Traore was the key to that.
I'm not a "just pay the money" merchant by any means but we're not talking £100m here or even 70 or 60 nor £200k a week. There comes a point when saying Champions League is paramount has to mean something. It may be that he's more patient than us and when we can start raking in the stadium money it'll change perhaps next year but I'm not convinced.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I'll caveat, a lot of that is I don't think Nuno has ever been likely to stay long anyways. Nor do I particularly rate Traore's overall game but here's my general reasoning:

We got lucky we got a fee for Sissoko and Hart. Lamela we dumped his wages in trade for Gil. Toby went for pennies. Aurier literally we tore up his contract. Eriksen rode his down and left for a fraction of his worth at the time relative to his importance to Spurs. Kane may well ride his down now to get a dream move. Lucas we'll probably have to let go for free in due course. NDombele we can't get rid. GLC can't stay fit. Sessegnon is maybe just now an outside chance at being a backup when we paid starter money.

We have become kings of vacuuming up non-transferable talent in recent years. Talent that was either aging faster than we could replace or specifically problematic in a way that the odds of them succeeding are small and the odds them being sellable in the future nearly zero. Some of that is bad luck pandemic but definitely not all.

Our remit this summer clearly included younger players with cheaper contracts and better sell on prospects or to build a new team around. Emerson, Sarr, and Gil clearly meet this. Romero was our reach player before the Traore deal came up. Traore for all his skill would clearly have a high percentage chance, especially on a near club record fee, of falling into the same category.

If Levy hasn't learned from all of that he's a fool. If he sees those who report to him about to do something he believes is not in the interest of the club he has a duty to intervene. Especially if they were testing the upper band of the budget he allocated to them. Yes we always say "back the manager" and "back the DOF" but that always comes with managerial oversight error brackets. I think in this case he was right to intervene. Onions and all that.

Very good post.