The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - DEADLINE DAY 31st August 2021

[Yakflange]

For someone to come in, someone must go. Squad is full and has been for a decade. That is the reality of every single window. Essentially, 6 went and six came in, more or less, position for position. Position for position of the ins, are we better off. I believe yes. That will be up for debate and time will be the judge - fine. To bring in another striker would have meant that someone needed to go. Didn't see many who wanted to go other than Ndombele who wanted RM or Barca. They didn't want him. Nobody wanted him. So, we are where we are.

The Harry Kane back-up/cover discussion, while understandable, IMO, misses the mark. Harry Kane is replaceable by only a few players because of how we have played for years. Personally, I would rarely play long from the keeper unless it is to hit a runner like Son or Moura. Long balls from keepers result in a turnover in over 6 out of 10 times. It is not statistically a good plan. We used to do it because there was no one in MF. Since Dembele left, this has been an issue. Ndombele was supposed to resolve that but then he gives the ball away tons too (notwithstanding abundant elite talent) and he doesn't get it back. Dembele was ruthless when he had given the ball away. Kane is very good at holding up the ball. It's true. It is also true that he takes a lot of abuse when he does that. It is physically demanding. We should be playing out from the back predominantly and playing in to feet. Son can't play striker as a Harry Kane replacement in the manner in which we play with Kane in the lineup. That is why it looks so bad when either Son or Moura play as striker. Kane can play with the ball in to feet and is one of our best passers for catching runs. Get back to how we were playing in 2016-2017 and things will look much rosier. Kane scored 29, Son 14, Dele 18, Eriksen 8. The style of play is far more "Spurs" and would suit players like Bergwijn, Moura, Dele, Gio, Kane, Sessegnon, Gil, Son so much more. We have become, IMO, far too pedestrian in how we move the ball. Far too slow in decision making and execution. Skipp helps with that as he just keeps things ticking on. Hojberg, with Skipp beside him looks far more forward pushing. Using Reguilon/Sessegnon and Emerson/Tanganga will help as well as it frees up space in the middle. That's exactly what Rose and Walker did in 2016-2017. It works. You just need the players to do it and, I believe, we are closer after this window than we were last season.

And we still have Kane

Excellent post.

 

[cookiemonster]

For CCV's sake, I hope it gets over the line

For our sake too

 

[peterballb]

Hart
Toby
Serge
Sissoko
Bale
Lamela
Rose

Plus Foyth and Gazzanigga who would have taken a spot so you could argue 7 or 9 out.

We definitely should have signed a forward player. There should be no excuses for that. It didn’t need to be a Kane but it did need to be another option. Injuries could well define our season.

No, you can't argue 7 or 9. Gazzaniga and Foyth were not in, nor was Rose. Loaned players don't take up a squad place (I am not counting Whiteman or Sarr who are on loan). Nor do players who are not in the squad. So you could argue that Alderweirald has been replaced by Romero, Lamela by Gil, Aurier by Emerson, Bale by Sessegnon, Sissoko by Skipp, Hart by Gollini. That is 6 squad players in and 6 squad players out.

 

[cookiemonster]

Isn't Bergwyns best position LW?

No idea

Ask moonhead Hitchens

Think he is the one that recommended him

 

[Yakflange]

Another thing to remember - it's only Nuno's first transfer window. As the old adage goes - only judge a manager after he has had three transfer windows (although it's rare for them to be given that much grace these days). As someone said above, it's not Football Manager - it's not that easy to just to buy or sell all the players you want to in one window. Also we have very little idea what Nuno's plans are for how he intends to use the squad, where he is going to play people, what formation he is going to use, who he is going to promote from the youth team, etc. - so let's give it a bit of time before rushing to judgement, eh?

(Who am I kidding, you're mostly all in a rage right now, aren't you?)

 

[jolsnogross]

I think given Traore not coming off, and no new CM, we're going to be seeing a whole lot more of Bryan Gil in some form or another, and I for one cannot wait.

I'm disappointed we didn't get Traore, as it would be exciting to see if he could succeed with us and in a front three with Kane and Sonny.

But I very much agree with this too. We need players who might have a decent ceiling to be given the chance to realise their potential. Gil is one, Bergwijn is another. If there was some sort of false choice of Traore only coming in if Bergwijn is sold, the I think the right choice was made. Give these guys a chance - they might thrive in a properly functioning team with a couple of real good finishers to supply and emulate.

 

[shelfstandspur]

Reading JJetset's and The Goat's info the Traore situation could have been down to a question of what he offers above Bergwijn/Lucas do by Levy, etc. and there is an agreement as to what the club will pay for him, especially in up front cash versus staged payments. Then with the higher fee demand comes the need to sell Bergwijn to make it work.

Fabio & Nuno could have looked at the deal and said yes a good deal as his parked bus busting runs could equate to 12 points this season and the difference of getting into the top four. The point of view of The Goat.

Daniel would look at the money and the stats and not seen the value in the deal; just too much £ to take the gamble that he will actually be an upgrade. JJetset's position.

I think we can see both sides on this. The point Rob and others have raised is one of ambition and risk & reward. Traore isn't necessarily the issue but rather the ongoing problem of being willing to pay that final extra to seal transformative deals. Levy is at the core of this problem (see Grealish, Dias, etc.) and the hope was (is) Paratici would (will) break this cycle.

He hasn't yet but I hope that with the increasing income that the stadium will now bring in (fingers crossed) Fabio can prise Daniel's vice like grip off the purse strings. Perhaps even in January we could see the odd deal?

For all of the above I feel far more optimistic than I did at the end of last season.

Thank you to the ITKs you help make us all feel as much a part of the club's transfer window story as we can hope to be.

 

[rossdapep]

Another thing to remember - it's only Nuno's first transfer window. As the old adage goes - only judge a manager after he has had three transfer windows (although it's rare for them to be given that much grace these days). As someone said above, it's not Football Manager - it's not that easy to just to buy or sell all the players you want to in one window. Also we have very little idea what Nuno's plans are for how he intends to use the squad, where he is going to play people, what formation he is going to use, who he is going to promote from the youth team, etc. - so let's give it a bit of time before rushing to judgement, eh?

(Who am I kidding, you're mostly all in a rage right now, aren't you?)

I don't think anyone is judging Nuno off this window? Well I certainly aren't.

 

[SandroClegane]

I'd rather see Scarlett develop through the cup games (with a better team around him than the first leg of Pacos) than spending 20-30m on players like Edouard, Daka, Ings, etc to play in those matches. If he's what we think he is, why would we block him with a player that MIGHT be better for a few seasons? Because we like shiny new things?

If Dane gets service, he could easily did what Vinicius did in the cup games last year. Now do I want to see him up front in Premier League matches? Probably not. But if Kane did get hurt, we slide Son in and that formation looked pretty good against City. Don't see Son or Kane starting many ECL matches.

 

[AtoubaToothpaste]

Yup.
Bench boy Dan James went for 25m and he rarely impacts the starting 11, yet alone any game.
Levy, I have no words for the man sometimes..

Traore scored 2 in 37
James scored 3 in 15

 

[rossdapep]

Reading JJetset's and The Goat's info the Traore situation could have been down to a question of what he offers above Bergwijn/Lucas do by Levy, etc. and there is an agreement as to what the club will pay for him, especially in up front cash versus staged payments. Then with the higher fee demand comes the need to sell Bergwijn to make it work.

Fabio & Nuno could have looked at the deal and said yes a good deal as his parked bus busting runs could equate to 12 points this season and the difference of getting into the top four. The point of view of The Goat.

Daniel would look at the money and the stats and not seen the value in the deal; just too much £ to take the gamble that he will actually be an upgrade. JJetset's position.

I think we can see both sides on this. The point Rob and others have raised is one of ambition and risk & reward. Traore isn't necessarily the issue but rather the ongoing problem of being willing to pay that final extra to seal transformative deals. Levy is at the core of this problem (see Grealish, Dias, etc.) and the hope was (is) Paratici would (will) break this cycle.

He hasn't yet but I hope that with the increasing income that the stadium will now bring in (fingers crossed) Fabio can prise Daniel's vice like grip off the purse strings. Perhaps even in January we could see the odd deal?

For all of the above I feel far more optimistic than I did at the end of last season.

Thank you to the ITKs you help make us all feel as much a part of the club's transfer window story as we can hope to be.

The hope for me with Paratici, is to see more Romero type signings.

I realise that this window/COVID situation may have helped us get him but we need to bring in players of this calibre amongst the Gil/Sarr type players.

I think Paratici will be great for the club in this regard. He'll be able to sell the footballing idea better and he will be able to work the market better than DL.

 

[Reece_Spurs]

Chill out lads, we've done decent business this summer. Good enough to get us through to january then we'll take it from there. COYS!

 

[totty]

While i understand the need for a backup CF to Kane, it’s not as simple as going out there to buy one.

Bayern has Choupo-Moting to back up Lewandowski, would any of our fanbase be happy with him over Scarlett?

Remind me who does Dortmund and Real has to backup Haaland and Benzema again?

And these clubs are playing in UCL with double the workload on their chief CF albeit with a X’mas break while we can play Scarlett in the Conference League and domestic cups.

On one hand, some fans claim they wanna see youth blooded but on the other, these same fans are worried over the same player not being good enough.


Yes, a backup striker in the Ings mould woulda been nice, but not at £25m, £150k to wait for an injury to Kane.

And addressing the issue of an AM, where does that leave Dele if we signed Aouar?

We can’t even play GLC or Ndombele atm, thats £100m worth of talent and we are supposed to add more????

PL XI: Lloris, Reguilion, Romero, Davinson, Emerson, Hojbjerg, GLC, Dele, Son, Kane, Lucas

Cup XI: Gollini, Davies, Dier, Rondon, Tanganga, Skipp, Winks, Ndombele, Bergwijn, Scarlett, Gil

Spare: Sessegnon, Clarke, Doherty, John

26 men squad


Its a 7.5/10 window for me, key thing is ridding the deadwood from Madrid ‘19.

 

[robotsonic]

I'd rather see Scarlett develop through the cup games (with a better team around him than the first leg of Pacos) than spending 20-30m on players like Edouard, Daka, Ings, etc to play in those matches. If he's what we think he is, why would we block him with a player that MIGHT be better for a few seasons? Because we like shiny new things?

If Dane gets service, he could easily did what Vinicius did in the cup games last year. Now do I want to see him up front in Premier League matches? Probably not. But if Kane did get hurt, we slide Son in and that formation looked pretty good against City. Don't see Son or Kane starting many ECL matches.

Definitely this. We've lost academy players in recent years due to no path to the first team, and it would be criminal to keep doing so. We don't have a sugar daddy and spend millions on running the academy to find exactly these gems. We have to at least try and bring them on where we can, and one of the best things that you can say about this window is that we're giving young players the responsibility. Skipp coming straight into a starting berth, Tanganga also. All of our outfield signings below 23. It's exciting stuff, and Scarlett should be a part of that. He has Kane, Son and Moura to ease him in and take the weight off of him. To sign a fourth player in front of him would mean we may as well not even bother having him around the squad. To have spent 150k/week and £25m on such a player would have been a complete joke.

 

[YB123]

My point is that when Kane's out, we need to play Kane's backup (Son) and Son's backup (Moura, whatever), arguably both in roles that they're not best suited to. Basically, as soon as Kane's out, we're a massively weaker team, playing second-string players for that position.

No matter how much you provide the facts, so many still dont understand this.

 

[JJetset]

Reading JJetset's and The Goat's info the Traore situation could have been down to a question of what he offers above Bergwijn/Lucas do by Levy, etc. and there is an agreement as to what the club will pay for him, especially in up front cash versus staged payments. Then with the higher fee demand comes the need to sell Bergwijn to make it work.

Fabio & Nuno could have looked at the deal and said yes a good deal as his parked bus busting runs could equate to 12 points this season and the difference of getting into the top four. The point of view of The Goat.

Daniel would look at the money and the stats and not seen the value in the deal; just too much £ to take the gamble that he will actually be an upgrade. JJetset's position.

I think we can see both sides on this. The point Rob and others have raised is one of ambition and risk & reward. Traore isn't necessarily the issue but rather the ongoing problem of being willing to pay that final extra to seal transformative deals. Levy is at the core of this problem (see Grealish, Dias, etc.) and the hope was (is) Paratici would (will) break this cycle.

He hasn't yet but I hope that with the increasing income that the stadium will now bring in (fingers crossed) Fabio can prise Daniel's vice like grip off the purse strings. Perhaps even in January we could see the odd deal?

For all of the above I feel far more optimistic than I did at the end of last season.

Thank you to the ITKs you help make us all feel as much a part of the club's transfer window story as we can hope to be.

It was JM that didn't want Dias not DL
Nuno position was Traore would definitely help us - club and everyone on transfer committee (inc Nuno) tried to do but agreed 45-50M is a gamble in current climate of a global pandemic with lost revenue. All happy.

 

[AtoubaToothpaste]

It was JM that didn't want Dias not DL
Nuno position was Traore would definitely help us - club and everyone on transfer committee (inc Nuno) tried to do but agreed 45-50M is a gamble in current climate of a global pandemic with lost revenue. All happy.

Thanks for clarifying. Thought it was unlikely that Evil Levy sabotaged Paratici. And they're all right. That kind of money for Traore is hilariously awful.

 

[robertgoulet]

It was JM that didn't want Dias not DL
Nuno position was Traore would definitely help us - club and everyone on transfer committee (inc Nuno) tried to do but agreed 45-50M is a gamble in current climate of a global pandemic with lost revenue. All happy.

Wonder if Wolves get off to decent start and are mid table (comfortably out of relegation) if they’ll be willing to deal in January. 18 mo left on his contract.

 

[YB123]

Thanks for clarifying. Thought it was unlikely that Evil Levy sabotaged Paratici. And they're all right. That kind of money for Traore is hilariously awful.

Yes BUT it is classic Levy and Co unwilling to take a gamble. Paratici's interview a few years ago was pivotal "if you want a player, sometimes you have to pay over the odds"

 

[YB123]

Wonder if Wolves get off to decent start and are mid table (comfortably out of relegation) if they’ll be willing to deal in January.

Nothing ever happens in Jan anymore mate. Well very rarely. Especially prem teams selling to each other.