The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - The Lurkers & Begging Bowl Edition 12th August 2013

[Disconosebleed]

I believe he wants to go, but I disagree with you that he should take this chance:
If this is his "only" chance to go to Real Madrid that would mean he isn't as good as we all think he is.

If he is indeed top 5 in the world, then he will get the same chance every f***ing year!He could even let his contract run out and go to Madrid for free.

If he goes now he must accept a couple of negative things:

• He will not be their star player and crowd favourite as that spot i taken (Ronaldo)
• He cannot speak the language - This is probably more of an issue than people think. Imagine working for a Company where only a few spoke your language and even understood what you are saying.
• He will have enormous expectations on his shoulders! The 100M+ tag would be used against him on every occasion

Yes, I understand that he wants to play for the worlds biggest club, but this will happen if he is as good as he was last year! Barcelona, Madrid, United, Munchen - He can choose whatever club he wants to!

This is all well and good, but why would he need to leave it another year? He's not going to be fucked off into the reserves if he doesn't play well in his first couple of games for Madrid. I don't see any reasonable explanation for saying that his development would be best served at Spurs at this point.

I agree that this is unlikely to be his only chance, but the usual reasons for thinking a young player should stay at his (smaller) current club - to continue his development/because he might not get in the team/because he might struggle under the weight of expectation - don't really apply.He's been at Spurs for five years, and has been what you would broadly call 'world class' for 18 months - it's reasonable to think that his development would be better served by moving up to a top Champions League club where he's playing with and against a better standard of player. There's no way he wouldn't get in the team even if he played poorly because Perez wouldn't allow a £100m political pawn to flop in that way. As for the expectations - well, this is going to happen whenever he goes; that's the reality of being an ambitious world-class footballer. It would only get worse for him if he waited and ended up signing as the replacement for Ronaldo, when the expectation really would be hard to live up to.

You have something of a point on the language front, in that he could stay another year and learn Spanish, but then maybe he already has been? Christ knows footballers have a lot of time off, and the Madrid rumours have been around longer than just this summer. Whenever he goes it's going to be a culture shock, and if he is intent on moving to Spain eventually, it would make sense to do it either this year or next before his kid starts to develop language skills, and particularly before she starts school (though that is further away and not so much of an issue right now).

Again, I want to emphasise that despite what I've said, I hope he stays. I hope he has an uniquely strong bond to the club that means he is happy to stay another year or more and see what he can achieve with us, or that he is from the Le Tissier/Shearer school of thought, where becoming a legend with one club is more important than being one of many trophy-winning stars who pass through the top clubs but very rarely become synonymous with the success of the club. I just don't think that, when I take my Spurs glasses off, it's reasonable to expect that of an ambitious footballer who has no connection to the club beyond the contracts he's signed over the past few years.

 

[hodsgod]

I don't think the 'not much chance of winning anything' applies to us now! Even if Bale were to go, I still think we have a strong enough squad to challenge for cups and possibly even the league with the purchases we have made this season. I understand about RM, but he could at least give it a year. (I actually firmly believe that he will as it happens)

We have improved, and we have a lot of depth in our squad now, I don't see us challenging for the league yet though.

 

[Maradona10]

I don't think the 'not much chance of winning anything' applies to us now! Even if Bale were to go, I still think we have a strong enough squad to challenge for cups and possibly even the league with the purchases we have made this season. I understand about RM, but he could at least give it a year. (I actually firmly believe that he will as it happens)

I hope so!

and welcome to the site my friend!

 

[Gollorius]

Last Summer Daws was told he could leave, we had offers on the table but he chose to stay & fight for his place. where's the difference with Livermore thinking he's good enough & chosing to stay? I feel like giving up some times

"Livermore THINKING he's good enough"

The difference is around this point right here.

 

[HoltbiusMac]

There's no way he wouldn't get in the team even if he played poorly because Perez wouldn't allow a £100m political pawn to flop in that way.

Kaka says Hi.

 

[Jospur]

All this talk of a £85-£100 million fee for Bale and now Real Madrid supposedly baulking at the price leads me to believe that mention of this grand fee was a Madrid or agent negotiating tool designed to turn Bale's head. Once talks have started then the big fee now becomes impossible or a hire-purchase deal. Can Real Madrid really afford Bale? How are THEIR finances? Is Spain a financially secure economy? For my part I'd be very, very careful in dealing with Real Madrid...

 

[BobbySoldier]

Hearing rumblings again that we may be in for Porto's Christian Atsu.

 

[voxy28]

Last Summer Daws was told he could leave, we had offers on the table but he chose to stay & fight for his place. where's the difference with Livermore thinking he's good enough & chosing to stay? I feel like giving up some times

Er the diff is Daw is fighting a place with Gallas while Livermore would be against Sandro and Capoue. That is a huge diff in terms of 1st team game start of both players against his few cameo appearance.

Look I think he can flourish and fight for a place in England but difficult to do it in Spurs. TBH, it's better for to go on loan... That will also help England with more selection of players.

Why are we even arguing about Livermore, FFS.

 

[plzsm]

Bbc wales saying bale wont play wed

 

[Tit&Ham]

This is all well and good, but why would he need to leave it another year? He's not going to be fucked off into the reserves if he doesn't play well in his first couple of games for Madrid. I don't see any reasonable explanation for saying that his development would be best served at Spurs at this point.

I agree that this is unlikely to be his only chance, but the usual reasons for thinking a young player should stay at his (smaller) current club - to continue his development/because he might not get in the team/because he might struggle under the weight of expectation - don't really apply.footballer who

You make a lot of sense, I'll give you that But the thing is, for me at least, this isn't a question of wether Spurs or Madrid is the best club to be at this year - It's far more complex. If he didn't have a contract now and had joined Madrid - Fair play.

But for the moment he has a contract, and I (suppose) we don't want to get rid of him. Therefore bridges could burnt, there could be an enormous price tag, and there could be issues in the Madrid squad regarding Ronaldo superstar status and so on.

These issues would be a lot smaller if he goes next year or the year after. It's a lot of could, should, would - but that's my opinion anyway.

Bale has done so much for this club, and behaved in such a good manner that I for one will never have an issue about him leaving to a better club. But I do hope with all my heart that he and his advicors thinks more like me and less like you

 

[Berbatonghen]

JJ earlier claimed Bale is definately going. There hasn't been much Bale news the last week - Good or bad thing?

Would be interesting to hear if anything has changed or not...

20 days left of the window - Nothing happening today. 19 days left... I think I will give my girlfriend a good round in the toilet-hole if he stays! Maybe even force an a**-to-mouth... Well, I am kissing those lips... Well, who gives a crap (!), I'll eat my own shit if he stays!

Mate ......... Are you ok ??

Lol bloody hell

 

[$hoguN]

This is all well and good, but why would he need to leave it another year? He's not going to be fucked off into the reserves if he doesn't play well in his first couple of games for Madrid. I don't see any reasonable explanation for saying that his development would be best served at Spurs at this point.

I agree that this is unlikely to be his only chance, but the usual reasons for thinking a young player should stay at his (smaller) current club - to continue his development/because he might not get in the team/because he might struggle under the weight of expectation - don't really apply.He's been at Spurs for five years, and has been what you would broadly call 'world class' for 18 months - it's reasonable to think that his development would be better served by moving up to a top Champions League club where he's playing with and against a better standard of player. There's no way he wouldn't get in the team even if he played poorly because Perez wouldn't allow a £100m political pawn to flop in that way. As for the expectations - well, this is going to happen whenever he goes; that's the reality of being an ambitious world-class footballer. It would only get worse for him if he waited and ended up signing as the replacement for Ronaldo, when the expectation really would be hard to live up to.

You have something of a point on the language front, in that he could stay another year and learn Spanish, but then maybe he already has been? Christ knows footballers have a lot of time off, and the Madrid rumours have been around longer than just this summer. Whenever he goes it's going to be a culture shock, and if he is intent on moving to Spain eventually, it would make sense to do it either this year or next before his kid starts to develop language skills, and particularly before she starts school (though that is further away and not so much of an issue right now).

Again, I want to emphasise that despite what I've said, I hope he stays. I hope he has an uniquely strong bond to the club that means he is happy to stay another year or more and see what he can achieve with us, or that he is from the Le Tissier/Shearer school of thought, where becoming a legend with one club is more important than being one of many trophy-winning stars who pass through the top clubs but very rarely become synonymous with the success of the club. I just don't think that, when I take my Spurs glasses off, it's reasonable to expect that of an ambitious footballer who has no connection to the club beyond the contracts he's signed over the past few years.

As a player he still has a lot of scope for improvement, something which he admits. So you have to ask the question where will his education be better served? Here at Spurs where he is first name on the team sheet, has a manager who believes in him and home comforts, or at Real Madrid where he will arrive we hefty price tag and will have to settle in whilst trying to improve. You have said that playing with better players will improve him, but i'm not so sure playing in Ronaldo's shadow will. Also you can say Perez will want him in the team, but he doesn't pick the side and this wouldn't be the first time he has spent big only to see that play spend more time on the bench then in the side (How's Kaka doing these days?)

If Bale believes he is one of the best players in the world then he should realise that these opportunities are not a one off, if he doesn't move this summer he will get the opportunity next summer and the summer after that. So he can afford to take another year to develop before moving.

 

[duffster]

He primarily plays an attacking midfield role but can also play out on both wings and in the hole. At a push he can play as a striker as he has a good first touch, is a good finisher and moves well. Dempsey didn't play as a striker but we still bought him with a view to filling that role in a pinch, and that is exactly what Chadli can do.

We also do not need three strikers, we just need two that fit the system. Soldado + another would give us good enough cover considering we have a very talented academy and squad players capable of playing that role. Unfortunately Defoe is as useful as a lone striker as a chocolate teapot, so we may end up with 3, however if both target men are injured we would still end up as f**ked with or without Defoe.

It's easy to see situations where both Soldado & Defoe pick up knocks or suspensions at the same time. You need 3 strikers.

 

[steve]

Maybe he loves Spurs and doesn't want to leave?

Funny how loyalty is only a one way street. We're so quick to want a player gone regardless of their wishes and moan like children when a player tries to force a move out

NAIL. ON. HEAD.

He loves Spurs so much he wants to stay and play a bit part and why shouldn't he? As you say we want the Modrics and Bales of this world to be loyal but when a player we don't fancy much is loyal we couldn't give a toss and will start slagging them and questioning their ambition...

Great post Franchise60 take a bow son...

 

[Tit&Ham]

Mate ......... Are you ok ??

Lol bloody hell

Sorry, but I'm really not. I eat, drink, sleep (and shit) Bale these days. I just want him to stay one more year

 

[Ghost Hardware]

I understand your point, but what would you do if you were Bale? Bearing in mind you wouldn't be a Spurs supporter and you could get a career threatening injury at any time. Would you honestly wait at a smaller club, not much chance of winning anything etc.

I understand your point completely but i think i would stay another year at Spurs. I am a director by trade, i mostly make music videos and short films at present but i am hoping to move into feature films in the not to distant future. Although the film industry is very different, i wouldn't sign onto a feature project unless i was 100% sure i could make something really special as you only get one chance to make a impression and if i failed it would be very hard to come back from that. Regarding Bale, obviously he will go to RM but he has only really had one good season and he still has a lot to learn. At Spurs he will be given that free roaming role that he thrived off last year and be the centre of our team. Even if he goes for 100 mil to RM he wont be given the same freedoms. If i were him, and even if i was a Arss fan i would stay another year, improve upon last season, prove that it wasn't just a one off, get more comfortable in my preferred role (i dont think he even knows what that is). Even he admitted at the end of last season there is still a lot to learn. Obviously we never stop growing, and no doubt he will change a lot when he goes to RM but at 24 you dont need to jump ship yet. And to be honest if RM are saying now or never then screw them, i would want to play for team that would want me for more then one season and not one that just wants a shiny new play thing. RM dont need Bale, they dont have the money for Bale and are 100% after him just for the clubs image.


Anyway sorry for the off topic reply. Back to the ITK, i am surprised that we are supposedly after Eriksen unless we are planning to get get rid of Sig as they are very similar players.

 

[$hoguN]

Last Summer Daws was told he could leave, we had offers on the table but he chose to stay & fight for his place. where's the difference with Livermore thinking he's good enough & chosing to stay? I feel like giving up some times

It is not the same though, for 3 reasons in particular

1) Dawson is at a significantly different point in his career and has already improved the technical side of his game as much as he is likely to, Livermore still has years to learn and develop.

2) Dawson had spent years as one of our first choice players so was working from a different starting point.

3) Dawson was more likely to see playing time than Livermore as we accepted a bid for Dawson as it was too good to turn down and we just seem willing to let Livermore go.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

IIRC I thought the mods stopped mass debates on Bale in this thread?

 

[$hoguN]

It's easy to see situations where both Soldado & Defoe pick up knocks or suspensions at the same time. You need 3 strikers.

I disagree and I have said why in the post you quoted. Although if we are going to keep Defoe I do agree we need three strikers as we need at least two that fit the current system.

 

[MaccSpurs]

Here is some real ITK...

Argos sent me a text earlier this morning saying my GoPro Car Suction mount will arrive today.

It arrived about an hour ago!