The Daniel Levy thread

[Rout-Ledge]

The training pitch isn't really much of a chance, they might not be training with the first team squad for one thing.
They won't necessarily get chances if they are good enough, like Kane before Sherwood came along.

If they're good enough, they'll break through eventually be it at Spurs or elsewhere. Which players have we let go from the youth squad who've actually turned out to be top class?

Look at the top clubs in English football and ask yourself how many of their genuine first teamers have come from the youth setup. We have more than most. Saying they only made it in because first teamers turned out to be 'shit' is disingenuous or short sighted. There's a reason we took Bentaleb in when other clubs turned him away: we spotted the talent. There's a reason why Harry Kane wasn't sold after disappointing loan spells: we spotted the talent.

 

[Mullers]

Everton have also won one trophy in 15 years. If you stretch it to 16 years then spurs have won two trophies (but I'm sure it wasn't your intention to stretch the one trophy thing to its maximum length to make your stat seem better!).

Everton have all the same tools we have, they're not in London, but they're a two club town.

comparing the last ten years in the league:

Spurs - Eve
5th - 11th
5th - 6th
11th - 5th
8th - 5th
4th - 8th
5th - 7th
4th - 7th
5th - 6th
6th - 5th
5th - 11th

Average

5.8 - 7.1

Revenue last year
£181m - £121m

If Bill Kenwright's the one example of a top Chairman you pull out of a hat, and in the last decade or so Spurs under Levy have done better than Everton under Kenwright, how come Levy isn't also a top Chairman?

I didn't say he wasn't, he has delivered consistent 5th place finishes and delivering a new stadium so that has to be respected however he can't keep to the same high standards he has set for his coaches, he shouldn't set standards that he can't live up to himself, 5th place is above our weight, ok then stop putting the strong pressure on coaches to achieve champions league when they don't have the tools to do the job. He treated the man who got us our first 5th place like a piece of shit, letting the man find out from his nephew that he is fired. Some people might not mind the constant, chopping and changing of manager but I do and I much prefer that the coach is given time to build even if it means less success in the short term and that is why I prefer Mr Kenwright.

 

[sloth]

I didn't say he wasn't, he has delivered consistent 5th place finishes and delivering a new stadium so that has to be respected however he can't keep to the same high standards he has set for his coaches, he shouldn't set standards that he can't live up to himself, 5th place is above our weight, ok then stop putting the strong pressure on coaches to achieve champions league when they don't have the tools to do the job. He treated the man who got us our first 5th place like a piece of shit, letting the man find out from his nephew that he is fired. Some people might not mind the constant, chopping and changing of manager but I do and I much prefer that the coach is given time to build even if it means less success in the short term and that is why I prefer Mr Kenwright.

Sure. But just to be clear you now say he's as good as the best Chairman in the league? In other words that Levy is the best Chairman in the PL?

 

[hellava_tough]

TBH Mullers I do have a bit of sympathy for your argument.

Levy's main focus has always been on business matters and in particular his legacy; the new stadium.

In modern sport where revenue streams are key, you could argue that the new stadium and associated deals should be the priority. It will lead to long term stability for the club.

On the other hand you could argue that Levy's ego and obsession with his legacy (the stadium), has meant that he never committed to footballing matters when we needed him to (e.g. when we needed a striker in that transfer window, sticking with certain managers, spending a little extra cash to push us into a top 4 position, etc). This was obviously frustrating for all of us.

Personally, having been a critic of Levy in the past, I'm starting to understand his vision and warm to the guy; providing he can actually deliver on the stadium and associated infrastructure. He's already delivered on the training ground, so that gives me confidence for the rest.

I suppose we'll never be able to judge Levy until he leaves the club and we look back on his reign, but right now it's not look too bad

 

[Mullers]

Sure. But just to be clear you now say he's as good as the best Chairman in the league? In other words that Levy is the best Chairman in the PL?

LOL no I'm not saying that bredren. You're calling Levy the best chairman in the premier league not me.

 

[Flashspur]

this has to be one of the big bad ass poorly thought out OP's ever....it must be painful right now...like your cock ring has suddenly decided to rapidly shrink and tighten and cut off your blood supply, right in the middle of the job you are doing on Miss America and her twin sisters Miss Cornhole and Miss Lollipop Tester.

 

[Mullers]

this has to be one of the big bad ass poorly thought out OP's ever....it must be painful right now...like your cock ring has suddenly decided to rapidly shrink and tighten and cut off your blood supply, right in the middle of the job you are doing on Miss America and her twin sisters Miss Cornhole and Miss Lollipop Tester.

Why?

 

[hellava_tough]

this has to be one of the big bad ass poorly thought out OP's ever....it must be painful right now...like your cock ring has suddenly decided to rapidly shrink and tighten and cut off your blood supply, right in the middle of the job you are doing on Miss America and her twin sisters Miss Cornhole and Miss Lollipop Tester.

Did you escape from a Quentin Tarantino movie?

 

[Mullers]

If they're good enough, they'll break through eventually be at Spurs or elsewhere. Which players have we let go from the youth squad who've actually turned out to be top class?

Look at the top clubs in English football and ask yourself how many of their genuine first teamers have come from the youth setup. We have more than most. Saying they only made it in because first teamers turned out to be 'shit' is disingenuous or short sighted. There's a reason we took Bentaleb in when other clubs turned him away: we spotted the talent. There's a reason why Harry Kane wasn't sold after disappointing loan spells: we spotted the talent.

But true, if the coach had any intention of bringing them through then 17 million on Paulinho, 11 million on capoue, 28 to 16 million on Soldado isn't necessary. Sherwood constantly played Bentaleb and came under fire for it, I'll hold my hands and say I also slated him for not playing capoue but he was correct. According to Sherwood the noise coming out of the club about Kane was,'Is he champions league' he said that the club wanted to sell him. Of course Sherwood is a dubious character but not everything is lies.

You're right that it is difficult for the youth to come through and be top players but sometimes young players can really rise to the occasion more than they would do at a lesser club. We have the ingredients to have a very good academy I just think we should is to the best of our ability because we don't have the money to compete.

 

[sloth]

What are your yard sticks Mullers? Rank PL chairmen/CEO in order best to worst. Give reasons.

I'm not going to run through a list of 20 chairman but I will say that I like Bill Kenwright, he stuck with Moyes and didn't press the panic button when they went through difficulties, he lets the coach get on with his job, he also announced record profits last year.

If Bill Kenwright's the one example of a top Chairman you pull out of a hat, and in the last decade or so Spurs under Levy have done better than Everton under Kenwright, how come Levy isn't also a top Chairman?

I didn't say he wasn't, he has delivered consistent 5th place finishes and delivering a new stadium so that has to be respected ... Some people might not mind the constant, chopping and changing of manager but I do and I much prefer that the coach is given time to build even if it means less success in the short term and that is why I prefer Mr Kenwright.

Sure. But just to be clear you now say he's as good as the best Chairman in the league? In other words that Levy is the best Chairman in the PL?

LOL no I'm not saying that bredren. You're calling Levy the best chairman in the premier league not me.

I can see from the above that you weren't saying Levy was as good as Kenwright. So apologies for assuming you were.

Can I assume you think Kenwright is the best chairman in the PL?

On the way you measure Kenwright as better than Levy I'd like to try and get your reasoning straight.

You think that despite that we have performed better on the pitch, whilst managing to fork out tens of millions on a new training facility, and Stadium, and yet have no debt while Everton are £28m in debt, lease their training facility, Finch Farm, from the local council, and have no prospect of building a new stadium, and make less money and less profit than we do, nevertheless you think Everton have the better future because BK sticks with his managers... Have I summed up your position fairly?

 

[Mullers]

TBH Mullers I do have a bit of sympathy for your argument.

Levy's main focus has always been on business matters and in particular his legacy; the new stadium.

In modern sport where revenue streams are key, you could argue that the new stadium and associated deals should be the priority. It will lead to long term stability for the club.

On the other hand you could argue that Levy's ego and obsession with his legacy (the stadium), has meant that he never committed to footballing matters when we needed him to (e.g. when we needed a striker in that transfer window, sticking with certain managers, spending a little extra cash to push us into a top 4 position, etc). This was obviously frustrating for all of us.

Personally, having been a critic of Levy in the past, I'm starting to understand his vision and warm to the guy; providing he can actually deliver on the stadium and associated infrastructure. He's already delivered on the training ground, so that gives me confidence for the rest.

I suppose we'll never be able to judge Levy until he leaves the club and we look back on his reign, but right now it's not look too bad

His vision is to build the stadium so he can buy more expensive players to deliver success and it's a vision that won't work. I once again refer to this Pochettino interview and what he is saying is absolutely correct.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tottenham-...-new-players-says-mauricio-pochettino-1498199

 

[Flashspur]

Did you escape from a Quentin Tarantino movie?

I talk like this all the time dude

 

[Flashspur]

Why?

Mullers I always like your posts because your contrarian view keeps us grounded. I dont always agree but we need different views.

I just think that in my lifetime of supporting Spurs since the early 60's, we are seeing consistent tangible progress over many years coming to fruition. Its been done without selling our souls to Merchants of fucking Venice like some other clubs. I am not saying that everything Levy has done has been above reproach. There have been mistakes of course. I have to say that I have always felt comfortable with Levy in charge because he keenly understands the Spurs ethos. Perhaps more than some of the so called fans. The whole stadium saga has shown that there has been some very careful and deliberate planning to put the club on a very strong commerical footing for the future.

I am not going to sweat the small stuff Mullers because at the end of the day I want Spurs to continue going from strength to strength. Having lived through the Scholar and Sugar years, ENIC inherited a club that looked like it had missed the boat. It really looked for a long time like Spurs would not be able to come up with that game changing opportunity.

To suggest that most of that progress over the last decade is not down to Levy and ENIC is kind of silly, isnt it?

 

[Mullers]

I can see from the above that you weren't saying Levy was as good as Kenwright. So apologies for assuming you were.

Apology accepted.

Can I assume you think Kenwright is the best chairman in the PL?

No, I simply gave an example of a chairman that I liked, I haven't done in depth research of all chairman in the premier league.

On the way you measure Kenwright as better than Levy I'd like to try and get your reasoning straight.

You think that despite that we have performed better on the pitch, whilst managing to fork out tens of millions on a new training facility, and Stadium, and yet have no debt while Everton are £28m in debt, lease their training facility, Finch Farm, from the local council, and have no prospect of building a new stadium, and make less money and less profit than we do, nevertheless you think Everton have the better future because BK sticks with his managers... Have I summed up your position fairly?

No you have not. First of all I don't believe I made any reference during our exchange about the future, secondly you ignore my criticisms of Levy of which they are many. As for the future I think the best we can hope for is maintaining our position as the best of the rest but that is by no means a guarantee as the season before last showed when Everton finished above us. I don't see that 28 million debt is a problem for Everton as long as it's managable and I believe it is, leasing their training facility again I don't think that is a big problem and you are wrong about no prospect of the stadium.
http://www.evertonfc.com/content/fans/your-stadium/the-opportunity
I don't think being the best chairman is about just being top of the net spend league and having no debt.

 

[Bobbins]

His vision is to build the stadium so he can buy more expensive players to deliver success and it's a vision that won't work. I once again refer to this Pochettino interview and what he is saying is absolutely correct.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tottenham-...-new-players-says-mauricio-pochettino-1498199

Poch is not saying anything about the effect a new stadium would have whatsoever in that interview.

With FFP of course the new stadium, NFL link and other new revenue sources will help us to spend more on players and have a better chance of success, it's nonsensical to suggest otherwise.

 

[Mullers]

Mullers I always like your posts because your contrarian view keeps us grounded. I dont always agree but we need different views.

I just think that in my lifetime of supporting Spurs since the early 60's, we are seeing consistent tangible progress over many years coming to fruition. Its been done without selling our souls to Merchants of fucking Venice like some other clubs. I am not saying that everything Levy has done has been above reproach. There have been mistakes of course. I have to say that I have always felt comfortable with Levy in charge because he keenly understands the Spurs ethos. Perhaps more than some of the so called fans. The whole stadium saga has shown that there has been some very careful and deliberate planning to put the club on a very strong commerical footing for the future.

I am not going to sweat the small stuff Mullers because at the end of the day I want Spurs to continue going from strength to strength. Having lived through the Scholar and Sugar years, ENIC inherited a club that looked like it had missed the boat. It really looked for a long time like Spurs would not be able to come up with that game changing opportunity.

To suggest that most of that progress over the last decade is not down to Levy and ENIC is kind of silly, isnt it?

I've never suggested that mate and I don't think anyone has. I've heavily criticised them for their mistakes, the mistakes they've made I don't think can be just brushed off as one of those things. Wasting the best part of 100 million for example is not a small thing.

If you go back to the OP all he said was the article raised some good points, it's a very simple article but from there it's grown into a bigger debate and on the whole a very good debate.

 

[Mullers]

Poch is not saying anything about the effect a new stadium would have whatsoever in that interview.

With FFP of course the new stadium, NFL link and other new revenue sources will help us to spend more on players and have a better chance of success, it's nonsensical to suggest otherwise.

Exactly, he is saying we have to be cleverer than the teams that spend more than us. Trying to spend on their level when they have champions league money is not clever. Having money is one thing spending it properly is another.

 

[sloth]

Apology accepted.

No, I simply gave an example of a chairman that I liked, I haven't done in depth research of all chairman in the premier league.

No you have not. First of all I don't believe I made any reference during our exchange about the future, secondly you ignore my criticisms of Levy of which they are many. As for the future I think the best we can hope for is maintaining our position as the best of the rest but that is by no means a guarantee as the season before last showed when Everton finished above us. I don't see that 28 million debt is a problem for Everton as long as it's managable and I believe it is, leasing their training facility again I don't think that is a big problem and you are wrong about no prospect of the stadium.
http://www.evertonfc.com/content/fans/your-stadium/the-opportunity
I don't think being the best chairman is about just being top of the net spend league and having no debt.

So you're not benchmarking Levy against an industry standard chairman? However sketchy that standard may be in your brain...

What are you benchmarking him against? How do you rate him?

I don't ignore your criticisms, I share many of them. The way he sacked Jol was disgracefully handled. His appointment of managers have left a lot to be desired, he seems to want one thing, but then not have the courage of his convictions. His dilly dallying on transfers shows a man who's good at knowing prices, but not always good at knowing value.

However you have to look at outcomes in the round and against industry benchmarks. You have to consider the size of club we are, the fundamentals which underpin us and compare that to other PL clubs. Follow the evidence and find the conclusion. Don't start with a conclusion and find the evidence which fits!

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Exactly, he is saying we have to be cleverer than the teams that spend more than us. Trying to spend on their level when they have champions league money is not clever. Having money is one thing spending it properly is another.

This where I see the last 18 months - going back to AVB leaving, has been a real shift for Levy.

When it became clear that AVB was not going to work, Levy did not have a knee-jerk reaction. He put Sherwood in charge until the summer, which allowed him to find the right person to take us forward. From all appearances so far, Pochettino is a great fit, in terms of understanding the limitations we have financially, and in building a club ethos that allows for organic growth to be supplemented by the right mix of players from outside the club.

Levy has also drastically changed the backroom staff, bringing in Mitchell, Broomfield, and getting more scouts in place. Almost all of the talk this off-season has been how well everyone is working together within this system. We see reports that Levy is backing Pochettino, with both incoming targets, and selling outgoing players at losses. My suspicion is that Levy has not changed his mindset, rather the supporting staff has put together more compelling reasons why certain players are good targets, and why certain players simply need to be out of the squad.

As a boss, its a lot easier to support a decision when its not simply "I have to have this player." Instead, I think the staff are saying these players would be good fits for these reasons: X, Y, Z. Levy gets credit for building that foundation. Sure, its easy to say Levy should have done that sooner - but the thing about Levy is he is never so stubborn so as not to evolve. He has made mistakes, but he has also learned from them - and we should be thankful, as it has put Spurs in position to remain competitive, and eventually break into the top-4 - not because they have the money, but because they have the foundation to be smart about spending, even with the extra money.

 

[jimbo]

Apologies if this has been posted before. I'm lazy. For which I'm not sorry.

So I was chatting yesterday to some friends in the UK media, and they gave me some more details on the Zuckerberg stuff, and Levy's business with the NFL:
First, the NFL deal pays Spurs in 2 ways. They should receive between £1-2 million per game from the league for ground rent. They will also, however, get monies from concessions, etc. Each game should net between £4 & 5 Million. That means the net value of the 10 year deal as written will be between £80 & 100 Million.
2nd, while Zuckerberg & friends seemingly ARE doing due diligence on the club as a whole, the more likely scenario is naming rights. This is where the NFL deal comes in again. It's guaranteed global reach, plus Spurs ' deal with EA sports means the new ground -- and it's name -- would also be in BOTH fifa AND Madden. Canary Wharf experts estimate that the NFL deal could add 20% to any naming rights package, which was already valued at about £100m before the deal for about 10 years of rights. If that estimate holds true, the 2 deals could net Spurs £200-220 million, or 1/3 to 40% of the ground's new cost figure.