The Daniel Levy thread

[Shadydan]

The game is up when A&C is complimenting Levy...come on Mullers come to the dark side you know you want to

 

[talkshowhost86]

I have my issues with Levy but there's a time and a place. Moaning about him right now when the BSoDL are marching triumphantly through the thread, when their numbers have never been so high, in the middle of St Levy Day is pure folly.

Now is the time to doff your cap and say well played shortstuff and give some credit where it is due. This is the non-footballing side. This is what he's good at. It'll be his legacy.

If he ever sorts out his problems/issues/blindspots with the footballing side of things he'd be some chairman.

Spot on Mr A&C.

Only the most intransigent BSODL would ignore his footballing follies and he shouldn't just be excused those mistakes.

But this thread title is about whether Levy is holding the club back or not.

He's not perfect by any means but how anyone can argue that we aren't in a better position now as a club than we were when Levy took over is completely beyond me.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

He's not perfect by any means but how anyone can argue that we aren't in a better position now as a club than we were when Levy took over is completely beyond me.

I'm not sure that is what people are complaining about. Of course we're in a better position now compared to when he took over. We improved and got into a position where we finished 4th twice and it all got blown away for lots of reasons and loads of people think we could have and maybe should have, kicked on from there. Wether that point of view is correct or not is what this thread is about. In my onion anyway.

So yeah, I think that's where the 'holding back' business stems from.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I'm not sure that is what people are complaining about. Of course we're in a better position now compared to when he took over. We improved and got into a position where we finished 4th twice and it all got blown away for lots of reasons and loads of people think we could have and maybe should have, kicked on from there. Wether that point of view is correct or not is what this thread is about. In my onion anyway.

So yeah, I think that's where the 'holding back' business stems from.

In which case i still think it's a hard case to argue that he's 'holding us back'.

In that argument, presumably people are saying we should be a top 4 team regularly and competing with the likes of City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal, rather than finishing 5th on average.

That's not something that would have been realistic with anyone other than an oil sheikh in the last few years.

City and Chelsea are on another planet financially and literally the only way of competing with them regularly is to adopt the same model of just throwing money at the situation. The only way that Levy is holding us back in that argument is by not being a mega-rich spendthrift, and fair enough if that's the alternative people want.

As for United, they are still the richest club in the country by virtue of their brand. The way to compete with them is to build our brand globally which is a slow process, but one which Levy has certainly moved forwards and continues to move forwards. I can't see him having held us back there either.

And as for our North London neighbours, the issue there in recent years has been that they get double our revenue every other week by dint of their stadium. It appears that in a few years time Levy will also have sorted out that gap.

From a business perspective, I don't see much else that Levy could have done that would mean we'd now be a bigger club than any of the current top 4. But I can see what he's doing to try and get us there. As you say if only he'd stop fucking up on the footballing side we'd be laughing, and that can't be ignored. But short of an oil baron coming in I don't think there's any alternative that would put us in a better position, and for me the idea that he's 'holding us back' in any way is crazy.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

In which case i still think it's a hard case to argue that he's 'holding us back'.

Like I said, now is the time to give credit for yesterday's news.

You aren't dragging me back in that easy

 

[Ionman34]

The same can be said for Irving Scholar and Alan Sugar but it isn't often said.

Irving Scholar?

Now I know you are on Crack.

Scholar floated us on the market and, with the additional revenue, could have made us a European powerhouse.

He used it all to prop up his textile business which went under anyway and nearly took our club with it.

Sugar I'll give you, but Scholar was a grade A **** who only had his own interests at heart and used the club to finance them.

A bigger Judas than Judas IMO.

 

[Ionman34]

Kane, Bentaleb, Mason all got their chance because of the failure of the summer 2013 signings. Kane has said himself that he would be on loan somewhere or at another club if Sherwood didn't give him a chance. Rose got his chance because his only real competition was Naughton. Pritchard is a no brainer, if we had let him go Liverpool were ready to step in and Bale aside we've always had problems on the left. Ali was a cheap signing, not someone from our own academy.

If Fazio leaves and I expect him to we still have 4 CBs no space for any more, I haven't even mentioned us having Walker and Trippier as right backs, which leaves Fredricks and Yedlin in the cold.

Not really mate.

Klinnsman has already said that the plan is to have Yedlin evolve into a winger. Fredericks I can't really comment on as I've seen very little of him, but will Walker be with us going forward? I'm not so sure as I'm in the BC class of believing he is a limited Footballer.

This season could see a number of the youth making strides towards breaking through, so it really is premature to say their progression has been or is being stymied.

 

[Ionman34]

Today is a fantastic day for Spurs and every fan involved with the club.

To see that some are still holding back and refusing to see the immense impact that Levy has done for not just to improve the Club but also to provide it with a sustainable structure that will enable Spurs to grow into an eventual commercial giant without the help of an oligarch or sheikh is disappointing but that will not dampen the excitement I have with the latest developments nor my appreciation of Levy in terms of his vision and business acumen.

What has always stood out for me with Levy is that he is both farsighted and works with a plan. These key ingredients are required for Chairman/ CEO and few indeed if any within the EPL displays as much ability in these two aspects as he has. From his interviews, the completion of our superb world class training facilities, the commercial deals the club has signed, the continental structure that he tries to establish, and the culmination of the a world class stadium facilities with community regeneration aspects, each and every one of them puts together a clear vision that he has in order to lift Spurs up to highest tiers of world football on solid financial footing. He began the plans of building the training facilities in 2002 which has taken years to complete but Spurs will now benefit for decades from this achievement. He began plans for the building of this world class stadium and now with a global NFL tied to it, Spurs will again be able to benefit from this development when completed from decades on. Do not be surprise if Spurs can get into top 5 in revenue general/ commercial value by 2020. All these serves to provide a fantastic and lasting platform for Spurs to achieve its footballing ambitions. Look at what Man U can do when it needs to lift itself back up after its decline in football achievements just because of its immense backing from a strong commercial/ business base it has.

People seem to be pointing to individual errors and mistakes he has made and that he definitely has done but ultimately no one is perfect. What must be pointed out is that these mistakes has always been tied to footballing aspects of the Club, and as long as the leader or Chairman, who is Levy, recognizes these mistakes, has a plan, and takes action, then we need to look at it from a longer term perspective just like with the training facilities/ academy/ stadium where lasting changes can take time especially when he is delving into an area which is not his forte so some patience should be allowed. What I can say from everything that has been established and yet to be completed is that he clearly shows that he has a vision for where he wants us to be and a plan. What we should applaud him for is his determination to stay with the plan and his vision, to make the changes step by step, in taking side way steps when he encounters difficulties from a wrong decision, and eventually getting us to where we are today.

As a person who manages a team as well, I can testify to the difficulty in motivating and leading everyone to face the same direction especially when the vision as Levy likely had in early 2000s was so radical and seemingly impossible that any rational fan coming out of the Sugar era would have thrown the idea and him out of the window in a second.

Levy has a vision and a plan for Spurs, and that is why he is not the one holding Spurs back but rather the naysayers who do not see his vision even though so much of it are now in plain sight.

Yes, he is the chairman of a club who bought a CB when we seem to have abundance of CBs and youth talents in this area but this is a minute detail within the vision and plan that Levy has brought to life to lift Spurs and everything tied to the Club to world class standards.

Today, I will seat back and enjoy the fantastic view of Spurs that Levy has shared and it will be a pity if others do not see what is clearly ahead of everyone who is a part of the Club.

Cracking post.

 

[Ionman34]

That is Levy's intention, he did announce that we need a new stadium to take us to the next level.
I've always said the new stadium is not essential to bring us to the next level, neither is it a guarantee.
Poch said we need to be cleverer than the teams that spend more than us and that's what I agree with. We need to scout properly, I don't know if Mitchell is the answer, that remains to be seen. If we seek to fight the top four with a kind of Chelsea/Man City/United strategy we will lose that war.
Get the right manager in.
Have a good academy system.
Have a good scouting system
Those are the things that can deliver success.

You are correct in everything above Mullers bar one thing, the stadium or, more to the point, the revenue generated is essential.

You can scout out the best talent in the World and win the title with them, but if you can't match the revenue of the teams you are competing with then you can't pay comparable wages and your best will be off as soon as the first offer from a bigger club comes in.

Alternatively you could match the wages offered and end up up to the gills in debt and treading a very thin line.

Increase your revenue and you stand a much better chance of retaining those players, adding to them, where necessary, rather than having to replace them.

 

[sloth]

Yes much better, we can win more than one trophy in 15 years.
Legend? when he takes 7 years to install a proper scouting network and we end up breaking our wage structure for a problem player we can't give away and waste the best part of a 100 million, but hey lets just gloss over because he signed a NFL deal.

You wrote on the previous page about your argument being based on fact, but - and this is a fact - they're not, they're based on supposition.

 

[Mullers]

The reason we didn't go for it (although we put a strog team out) was because we had a cup final that weekend.
That was the managers decision not levy's.

Levy hires the manager, if he isn't partly responsible, then he also can't be attributed the league cup win or 5th place finishes.

But they were ready to step straight in and saved us money that would have needed to have been spent and because the academy has produced Premiership ready players.Are you really complaining about our academy producing players who could be playing in the Premier League? Yes Vejlkovic and Fredericks are behind other players right now, but like most youngsters that come through they'll be ready to step in when needed and if they produce they can battle those more senior players. In the past our academy would have produced no players of quality to step in and we'd have languished in the lower half of the table.

No, I am complaining that our transfer policy doesn't tie in with what is coming through with the academy. Paulinho cost 17 million and Capoue cost 11 million, their places have been taken by Mason and Bentaleb who cost nothing. So what I'm saying is that money needn't have been spent, had Sherwood been the manager I don't think that money would have been spent.

Fredricks said before when he was at middlesborough that he would have talks at the end of the season about his future, it is unlikely that he will stay at this point.

I have my issues with Levy but there's a time and a place. Moaning about him right now when the BSoDL are marching triumphantly through the thread, when their numbers have never been so high, in the middle of St Levy Day is pure folly.

Now is the time to doff your cap and say well played shortstuff and give some credit where it is due. This is the non-footballing side. This is what he's good at. It'll be his legacy.

If he ever sorts out his problems/issues/blindspots with the footballing side of things he'd be some chairman.

The game is up when A&C is complimenting Levy...come on Mullers come to the dark side you know you want to

Guy's this what I said before, Post 2016, page 106.

I agree it is a great day for the club, this is what Levy is good at and should concentrate on rather than being a defacto DOF.

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...ng-tottenham-back.99342/page-106#post-4665349

I mean it's not the first time I've said this kind of thing, I've said often that Levy is good at the business side but it gets ignored.

I respectfully disagree A&C that this isn't the time to moan at Levy, the thread was bumped and some people are saying things I don't agree with, so I'm countering it.

I am not going to shy away because of the numbers game, I believe in my arguments and I'm prepared to stand by them and debate them.

 

[Mullers]

Mullers:

A new stadium is definitely a pre requisite to going to the next level. How could you convince a big name player to play in a stadium half the size of your rivals?

Apart from man Utd, Real Madrid, Barcelona. This stadium is on a par with anything if not better.

Any player that looks around the training ground and sees that stadium is gonna want to play for us.

Try the same methods used to convince Scott Parker, VDV and others.

I've never heard a training ground used in debates about attracting players until we built our one.

 

[Spurger King]

I've never heard a training ground used in debates about attracting players until we built our one.

Haha that's very true! I'd imagine that if a player is at the training ground, there's a good chance they will sign anyway by that point.

I think it could make a bit of a difference though. It would be their place of work, and an opportunity to use the top facilities in order to improve as a player.

 

[Mullers]

Haha that's very true! I'd imagine that if a player is at the training ground, there's a good chance they will sign anyway by that point.

I think it could make a bit of a difference though. It would be their place of work, and an opportunity to use the top facilities in order to improve as a player.

I think with a player like Kane and the right training program it can make a difference, with other players with a questionable attitude it's probably a great place to chill.

 

[Mullers]

Irving Scholar?

Now I know you are on Crack.

Scholar floated us on the market and, with the additional revenue, could have made us a European powerhouse.

He used it all to prop up his textile business which went under anyway and nearly took our club with it.

Sugar I'll give you, but Scholar was a grade A **** who only had his own interests at heart and used the club to finance them.

A bigger Judas than Judas IMO.

I think he was trying to diversify with our revenue, I think that was point of the textiles business and other businesses. I'm not saying that he was a good chairman but it wasn't really in his best interests to make the club deliberately unsuccessful. He is a spurs supporter to this day.

[Levystockanswer] He made mistakes, we all make mistakes no one is perfect[/Levystockanswer]

Not really mate.

Klinnsman has already said that the plan is to have Yedlin evolve into a winger. Fredericks I can't really comment on as I've seen very little of him, but will Walker be with us going forward? I'm not so sure as I'm in the BC class of believing he is a limited Footballer.

This season could see a number of the youth making strides towards breaking through, so it really is premature to say their progression has been or is being stymied.

Klinnsman said it but he isn't the manager of Spurs. Clearly what Yedlin does on an international level isn't enough to get him ahead of Chriches at right back, I really have severe doubts that he will be used much in that way with us, perhaps in the odd cup game maybe.

I'm also with BC in agreeing that Walker is a limited footballer. However my belief is that he will fight for that position with Trippier.

I don't think my argument is premature because we've gone out and bought a 12 million pound defender who will in all probabilty be first choice which is not only a statement about another young player Dier not being good enough it also brings the total number of CB's to 5 thus stopping youth coming through in that area.

 

[sloth]

I think he was trying to diversify with our revenue, I think that was point of the textiles business and other businesses. I'm not saying that he was a good chairman but it wasn't really in his best interests to make the club deliberately unsuccessful. He is a spurs supporter to this day.

[Levystockanswer] He made mistakes, we all make mistakes no one is perfect[/Levystockanswer]


Klinnsman said it but he isn't the manager of Spurs. Clearly what Yedlin does on an international level isn't enough to get him ahead of Chriches at right back, I really have severe doubts that he will be used much in that way with us, perhaps in the odd cup game maybe.

I'm also with BC in agreeing that Walker is a limited footballer. However my belief is that he will fight for that position with Trippier.

I don't think my argument is premature because we've gone out and bought a 12 million pound defender who will in all probabilty be first choice which is not only a statement about another young player Dier not being good enough it also brings the total number of CB's to 5 thus stopping youth coming through in that area.

What are your yard sticks Mullers? Rank PL chairmen/CEO in order best to worst. Give reasons.

 

[Mullers]

What are your yard sticks Mullers? Rank PL chairmen/CEO in order best to worst. Give reasons.

I'm not going to run through a list of 20 chairman but I will say that I like Bill Kenwright, he stuck with Moyes and didn't press the panic button when they went through difficulties, he lets the coach get on with his job, he also announced record profits last year.

 

[SteveH]

I'm not going to run through a list of 20 chairman but I will say that I like Bill Kenwright, he stuck with Moyes and didn't press the panic button when they went through difficulties, he lets the coach get on with his job, he also announced record profits last year.

Bill Kenwright is up there, you're right Mullers. Not been well recently I believe.

 

[hellava_tough]

I'm sure this has been said before, but if not...

So the first time around, Spurs missed out on the massive windfall following the Premier League's creation. Teams such as Man Utd were in the right place at the right time just before English domestic football went 'global', and from a business/revenue perspective they were able to brand and sell themselves to a massive audience world-wide. We all know of how rich these clubs became.

I wonder if Levy sees this as a similar opportunity; to get in at the 'ground floor' just before NFL goes truly 'global'. It would certainly give Spurs an edge over their competitors, seeing as Spurs would have access to a massive income stream that no other team in the EPL would have (for now!).

If this is Levy's plan and it works, the guy is a genius. It would potentially give us 'Sugar-Daddy' income without breaking any rules and growing the club in the process.

 

[hellava_tough]

I think he was trying to diversify with our revenue, I think that was point of the textiles business and other businesses. I'm not saying that he was a good chairman but it wasn't really in his best interests to make the club deliberately unsuccessful. He is a spurs supporter to this day.

[Levystockanswer] He made mistakes, we all make mistakes no one is perfect[/Levystockanswer]


Klinnsman said it but he isn't the manager of Spurs. Clearly what Yedlin does on an international level isn't enough to get him ahead of Chriches at right back, I really have severe doubts that he will be used much in that way with us, perhaps in the odd cup game maybe.

I'm also with BC in agreeing that Walker is a limited footballer. However my belief is that he will fight for that position with Trippier.

I don't think my argument is premature because we've gone out and bought a 12 million pound defender who will in all probabilty be first choice which is not only a statement about another young player Dier not being good enough it also brings the total number of CB's to 5 thus stopping youth coming through in that area.

If the youth are good enough, they'll come through

Such is the dog-eat-dog nature of football