The England Thread

[nailsy]

You said you disagreed with my post, but your reason was because you couldn't bare to see Terry win something.

The point I made was he would of improved our defence. So if you're disagreeing with that, give me some reasons why you think he wouldn't of improved our defence, instead of citing how much you dislike someone - which had nothing to do with the point I was making lol

His popularity is a factor though as his selection could have split the squad after his comments to Ferdinand. He'd have probably made the defence stronger, but the overall squad weaker.

 

[Mustard]

His popularity is a factor though as his selection could have split the squad after his comments to Ferdinand. He'd have probably made the defence stronger, but the overall squad weaker.

Exactly

 

[Mustard]

You said you disagreed with my post, but your reason was because you couldn't bare to see Terry win something.

The point I made was he would of improved our defence. So if you're disagreeing with that, give me some reasons why you think he wouldn't of improved our defence, instead of citing how much you dislike someone - which had nothing to do with the point I was making lol

I don't like him and want nothing for him to do with my national side.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

We have a serious problem with concentration and organisation. You only have to look at the mess we got in with their corners.

Its undeniable really - had Cole and Terry been in the side we'd probably still have our destiny in our own hands. Terry would of organised the defence, wouldn't of been done static like that for the winner last night and I'm absolutely convinced Cole would of been much more diligent in defence than Baines and would of stopped at least one of those crosses coming in for Suarez/Balotelli.

It was a huge mistake to overlook that experience and ability.

Back four were constantly out of shape/position last night. Was amateurish at times.
If full-backs are pushing up, midfield should drop in to cover. There were a couple of times when it was 2 at the back, with Henderson and Gerrard just in front, but no-one in the FB position.

Johnson was shit, but the abuse aimed at him online was somewhat uncalled for. He was only fit English RB with regular PL experience. Not like we had an abudance of options!!

 

[thinktank]

That's harsh on Sherwood in my opinion... He didn't set up a proper midfield either, but he never managed the extreme gap between defence and attack that Woy has!

The last two games have been the random chaos of Redknapp football at its very worst, multiplied by about 10.

Still not knocked out though...

That gap was truly amazing.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Am i right in saying that every England player plays in the Premier League?

If so, that must be a bit of a record, and also shows that ... what ... other leagues don't like English players? They don't 'export' well? What?

I reckon if the National Coach was obliged to pick from the domestic league, then England would win the world cup consistantly!

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Am i right in saying that every England player plays in the Premier League?

If so, that must be a bit of a record, and also shows that ... what ... other leagues don't like English players? They don't 'export' well? What?

I reckon if the National Coach was obliged to pick from the domestic league, then England would win the world cup consistantly!

Fraser Forster plays in Scotland...

 

[Mr Pink]

His popularity is a factor though as his selection could have split the squad after his comments to Ferdinand. He'd have probably made the defence stronger, but the overall squad weaker.

Possibly, but that;s total guess work. What we do know is that he would of made the defence stronger in terms of organisation and leadership.

Anyway, that's not what Mustard said - he said he just couldn't bare to see him in the team. A world of difference to the reason you've just stated.

Anyhow not going to bother discussing it further when I'm getting told to fuck off etc lol

Pathetic was to debate something really.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

Am i right in saying that every England player plays in the Premier League?

If so, that must be a bit of a record, and also shows that ... what ... other leagues don't like English players? They don't 'export' well? What?

I reckon if the National Coach was obliged to pick from the domestic league, then England would win the world cup consistantly!

Fair point - and I doubt any European clubs are going to be bidding for any of this year's group either!

It shows that the way our players like to/are taught to play doesn't fit with how the majority of European sides play.

 

[nailsy]

Possibly, but that;s total guess work. What we do know is that he would of made the defence stronger in terms of organisation and leadership.

Anyway, that's not what Mustard said - he said he just couldn't bare to see him in the team. A world of difference to the reason you've just stated.

Anyhow not going to bother discussing it further when I'm getting told to fuck off etc lol

Pathetic was to debate something really.

I guess, but I was just going on comments about previous England squads being full of people that didn't get along. I guess the whole arguement about Terry is irrelevant anyway as he retired from internationl football. Looks like he'll be joined by a few more players soon as well.

 

[onthetwo]

can anyone think of an attacking midfield player that turned into a good DM once they lost a yard? Im coming tt the conclusion that its a complete falicy that an attack-minded midfield player can evolve into a defence-minded player i,e, the Gerard experiment was always doomed to fail.

 

[Mr Pink]

I guess, but I was just going on comments about previous England squads being full of people that didn't get along. I guess the whole arguement about Terry is irrelevant anyway as he retired from internationl football. Looks like he'll be joined by a few more players soon as well.

Possible that he could of been persuaded out of retirement but its all moot, that's true.

An yeah I agree, could be a few to join him now. Lampard and Gerrard should be waking away now IMO.

 

[nailsy]

Fair point - and I doubt any European clubs are going to be bidding for any of this year's group either!

It shows that the way our players like to/are taught to play doesn't fit with how the majority of European sides play.[/quote]


Is that a problem though? For as long as I can remember we've been told that our players aren't technically good enough and we've been trying to fix that by getting new facilities, changing the coaching, etc. But we seem to be getting worse in the tournaments rather than better. Should we be sticking to a more traditional English way of playing, rather than trying to adapt?

 

[dontcallme]

can anyone think of an attacking midfield player that turned into a good DM once they lost a yard? Im coming tt the conclusion that its a complete falicy that an attack-minded midfield player can evolve into a defence-minded player i,e, the Gerard experiment was always doomed to fail.

I think Beckenbauer did it. Certainly went from midfield to defence though not sure how attacking he was.

Mattaus went from box-to-box midfielder to sweeper, Gullit kind of did the same.

Big difference being that they were truly great passers of the ball, Gerrard never was a good passer let alone a great one.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

The whole player X & player Y don't get on argument is irrelevant.
You're there to win the tournament.

Cole & Sheringham didn't get on at all off the field, but look at their partnership at United...

John Terry should have been there alongside Cahill as it's a solid pairing at Chelsea.
Instead we had Jagielka constantly out of position and no-one barking out orders at the back.
It would also have meant we could have left Smalling or Jones at home!!

 

[onthetwo]

I think Beckenbauer did it. Certainly went from midfield to defence though not sure how attacking he was.

Mattaus went from box-to-box midfielder to sweeper, Gullit kind of did the same.

Big difference being that they were truly great passers of the ball, Gerrard never was a good passer let alone a great one.

Beckenbauer was the first 'Libero' that i can remember i.e. always defensively inclined IIRC. Did Mattaus or Germany win anything with him playing sweeper? I dont think they/he did, could be wrong of course.

 

[Lufti]

can anyone think of an attacking midfield player that turned into a good DM once they lost a yard? Im coming tt the conclusion that its a complete falicy that an attack-minded midfield player can evolve into a defence-minded player i,e, the Gerard experiment was always doomed to fail.

I think Beckenbauer did it. Certainly went from midfield to defence though not sure how attacking he was.

Mattaus went from box-to-box midfielder to sweeper, Gullit kind of did the same.

Big difference being that they were truly great passers of the ball, Gerrard never was a good passer let alone a great one.

Beckenbauer was a sweeper, can't find anything about him being a midfielder, unless it was only during his youth career? Think that happens with a lot of players though, I think a fair share of defenders started their early careers as midfield players. Hummels actually played as a striker for Bayern but obviously wasn't particularly good at it, which is why they let him go. Players can move position and thrive, doesn't mean it works for everyone, but I think it's a bit unfair to say Gerrard's position change isn't working given what Liverpool did this season.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

can anyone think of an attacking midfield player that turned into a good DM once they lost a yard? Im coming tt the conclusion that its a complete falicy that an attack-minded midfield player can evolve into a defence-minded player i,e, the Gerard experiment was always doomed to fail.

Giggs?

 

[Turbo]

can anyone think of an attacking midfield player that turned into a good DM once they lost a yard? Im coming tt the conclusion that its a complete falicy that an attack-minded midfield player can evolve into a defence-minded player i,e, the Gerard experiment was always doomed to fail.

Not really defensive midfield but Scholes did play deeper later on and was still able to control games. Even Giggs to a degree once he lost his pace moved into the middle and was still a good player.

 

[Shadydan]

The last time Terry and Cole played for England they lost 4-1, just sayin