The future of Spurs

[shelfboy68]

There hasnt been a title challenge in my lifetime.

You have to be around 70 to remember the double winners that is how bad it is.

 

[Bobbins]

Has Nagelsmann got a reputation for bringing through and developing young players?

Obviously he's only been managing for 5 minutes so I'm not expecting legacies but I've very little idea about him and what he does other than being a good organiser and motivator with a defined playing style.

 

[spids]

Naglesmann uses young talent - he is forced too by the red bull ethos.

 

[RichieS]

That's either a bizarrely revisionist perspective or you set an absurdly high bar for what constitutes a title challenge!

When we beat Stoke 4-0 at the Britannia stadium in April 2016, it took us to 68 points - 5 points below Leicester with four games remaining and with a far better goal difference. Still very much in the hunt. For a long time, ever since it became obvious that Spurs were Leicester's only real challengers, we had been 5 points behind having played the same number of games. But they always got to play first. Every. Single. Weekend.

Whether that was deliberate on the part of Sky or the PL or whoever, we will never know. But it conferred on them a huge advantage. It meant that they always had the opportunity to open up an 8 point gap before we got to play our game. Not once were we afforded the opportunity to close the gap to 2 points to see how they coped with that added pressure. Just one slip up by them and we would have been within a whisker.

As it was, with just about everything going their way (wins against the run of play, generous officiating, generous fixture scheduling) along with a great spirit, Leicester kept winning week after week. Credit to them. But the fact that we were the ones eventually to crack doesn't in any way render our title challenge any less of a challenge.

There is no scientific measure for what constitutes a title challenge. It can only ever be measured by what it feels like (which is necessarily unscientific). And I don't know of a single Spurs fan other than you who didn't feel that we were challenging for the title that season. We were close. Very, very close.

Bloody hell, I'd forgotten it was that close!

 

[shelfboy68]

Naglesmann uses young talent - he is forced too by the red bull ethos.

Ah the cheap young players we know where this is going.

 

[danielneeds]

Ah the cheap young players we know where this is going.

We’ve always got better results on cheap young players than the ones we’ve spent big on.

 

[shelfboy68]

We’ve always got better results on cheap young players than the ones we’ve spent big on.

I think we need a balance of older players in there not from a winner perspective as we don't, but from a leadership pov especially in games where it might start getting away from them.

 

[RichieS]

Ah the cheap young players we know where this is going.

Yep, cheap young players like Sánchez, Ndombele and Lo Celso.

 

[shelfboy68]

Yep, cheap young players like Sánchez, Ndombele and Lo Celso.

Unfortunately Sanchez is not good enough, Ndombele is very skilful but often gets caught overplaying, lo celsco is always injured so not a great advert just yet.

 

[RichieS]

Unfortunately Sanchez is not good enough, Ndombele is very skilful but often gets caught overplaying, lo celsco is always injured so not a great advert just yet.

You need to oil the wheels of your moveable goalposts - I can hear them squeaking as they turn.

You tried to make some lame point about us buying "cheap young players". I pointed out 3 examples of young but very expensive players we have bought recently (I could also have mentioned Sessegnon and/or Bergwijn), which actually constitutes the majority of our recent transfer spend.

The market the top clubs shop in now is the one we are most active in. Because we are beginning to behave like a top club.

Edit: I even forgot Reguilón. You can have Rodon though.

 

[shelfboy68]

You need to oil the wheels of your moveable goalposts - I can hear them squeaking as they turn.

You tried to make some lame point about us buying "cheap young players". I pointed out 3 examples of young but very expensive players we have bought recently (I could also have mentioned Sessegnon and/or Bergwijn), which actually constitutes the majority of our recent transfer spend.

The market the top clubs shop in now is the one we are most active in. Because we are beginning to behave like a top club.

Edit: I even forgot Reguilón. You can have Rodon though.

Not really squeaking is it however reguillon I like not sure what his best position is I don't think it's LB I think he needs to go further forward

 

[Yiddo100]

Naglesmann uses young talent - he is forced too by the red bull ethos.

He does seem to actually enjoy promoting youth though, reading a couple interviews

 

[slartibartfast]

That's either a bizarrely revisionist perspective or you set an absurdly high bar for what constitutes a title challenge!

When we beat Stoke 4-0 at the Britannia stadium in April 2016, it took us to 68 points - 5 points below Leicester with four games remaining and with a far better goal difference. Still very much in the hunt. For a long time, ever since it became obvious that Spurs were Leicester's only real challengers, we had been 5 points behind having played the same number of games. But they always got to play first. Every. Single. Weekend.

Whether that was deliberate on the part of Sky or the PL or whoever, we will never know. But it conferred on them a huge advantage. It meant that they always had the opportunity to open up an 8 point gap before we got to play our game. Not once were we afforded the opportunity to close the gap to 2 points to see how they coped with that added pressure. Just one slip up by them and we would have been within a whisker.

As it was, with just about everything going their way (wins against the run of play, generous officiating, generous fixture scheduling) along with a great spirit, Leicester kept winning week after week. Credit to them. But the fact that we were the ones eventually to crack doesn't in any way render our title challenge any less of a challenge.

There is no scientific measure for what constitutes a title challenge. It can only ever be measured by what it feels like (which is necessarily unscientific). And I don't know of a single Spurs fan other than you who didn't feel that we were challenging for the title that season. We were close. Very, very close.

I think it was worse than that. I'm pretty sure they were 4 points in front so we were always going into our matches trailing by 7 points. Had we played first and won they'd have gone into their match with just a 1pt lead. The psychological difference is imo massive. As you said, it never happened. Not even once and was a fucking joke. Had we had a big time Charlie manager like Jose back then he'd have been throwing a hissing fit but as usual we just bent over and took it.
Oh and dont forget the 3 Monday night fixtures on the bounce we had dished out as well. Wtf was that about???
Anyway it all history now but still pisses me off.
It stank.

 

[Bobbins]

So what's this I hear about Nagelsmann now being nailed-on for Bayern? If we can't get him, who do we get? I know there's a next manager thread but looking at the bigger picture, which is what this thread is about, what does Nagelsmann being unavailable/uninterested mean for Spurs?

Let's be honest most of SC is interested in JN as they see him as Poch Mk II, from styles of play to background etc. What if we end up with the likes of Allegri? That means a completely different direction for the club, and potentially vastly different from Jose. If we believe the Athletic article, Jose has dismantled the Spurs sports science department because he doesn't believe in it, and it apparently took OGS 8 months to rebuild it at United.

So we know the playing squad needs gutting, and we may need a serious rebuild of support staff and systems/facilities as well.

There could be a lot more work on the horizon for the club than just getting rid of Sissoko and pushing Danny Rose out the door...

 

[MassadaTom]

Nagelsmann is not available option for now. Did some German press research and we cannot consider him available.
It's all down to Flick - Khan meeting, than factional politics at Bayern, and finally if Leipzig will let him go (4 year contract and no clouse).
The other Bundesliga option seems to move already. So just make sens to wait till end of season now I think.

 

[Spursmatty87]

There hasnt been a title challenge in my lifetime.

How old are you 2?

 

[shelfboy68]

So what's this I hear about Nagelsmann now being nailed-on for Bayern? If we can't get him, who do we get? I know there's a next manager thread but looking at the bigger picture, which is what this thread is about, what does Nagelsmann being unavailable/uninterested mean for Spurs?

Let's be honest most of SC is interested in JN as they see him as Poch Mk II, from styles of play to background etc. What if we end up with the likes of Allegri? That means a completely different direction for the club, and potentially vastly different from Jose. If we believe the Athletic article, Jose has dismantled the Spurs sports science department because he doesn't believe in it, and it apparently took OGS 8 months to rebuild it at United.

So we know the playing squad needs gutting, and we may need a serious rebuild of support staff and systems/facilities as well.

There could be a lot more work on the horizon for the club than just getting rid of Sissoko and pushing Danny Rose out the door...

It's a fucking mess is what it is I think this is going to take a fair bit of work and a strong manager to sort this club out.

 

[McArchibald]

It's a fucking mess is what it is I think this is going to take a fair bit of work and a strong manager to sort this club out.

Indeed. The future of Spurs short- to mid term looks bleak.
Our big name managerial saviour turns out to be a busted flush, our best two players will be running for the exit door this summer, a large part of the squad are in full decline and stinking the place out with their questionable attitude, there is absolutely no sense of purpose or direction due to the lack of a DoF or some footballing know-how on the board and our Chairman has put whatever resources we have left into.... the acquisition of a Golf Course.
Alarm bells should be ringing all over. We're on the slide and there are plenty of others pushing to take our place. Could be the nineties all over if we're not careful and go all-in on a major overhaul.

 

[mumfordspur]

How old are you 2?

Depends if you count the Leicester season.
I certainly didn't they never folded.

 

[Spursberg]

Is this not the same story all over, alot want Nagelsman cous he will use young players and play attacking football? Problem is with this mindset and method in the PL we will not go any higher than EL. We can not compare PL to leagues that always have 1 team dominating. If we want progress it does not matter what manager we choose, if we do not invest heavy on quality players AND our academy, it will always be the same.

This appointment of Mourinho just confirms what i always have believed, that the oh so best managers in the world will just be as plain as the rest when they do not get the money to spend, specially in a league so competitive as PL. Just look at Pellegrini, won the league with City and almost relegated West Ham. yes we might get a boost with new manager, every team always does, but in the long term it is not enough.

Spurs use Money, but it is always small sums on alot of players and never any investment in quality, we mostly (with some exeptions) still offer around the 15-20 mill£ for players like we did almost 20 years ago. And possible the biggest problem, not geting rid of deadwood cous we hold out for to much money making the squad stale

Not mean to be negative, but the structure need to change to be competitive in PL, not sacking managers like Chelsea that give the new one 200M every transfer window.