The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[Yid-ol]

Media invited to hear from posh about our next game. Sky reporter just wants to talk about United job, just wish when he said this will be ongoing for another 6 months that we replied with something along the lines of:

Is that because you will be trying to unsettle our squad by running these story's when there is no story or truth behind it.

 

[ExpatFan]

If Poch goes, is it a matter of buying him like a player or buying out his contract? As if he is like a transfer the money would be insane levy would be in a win situation even if he backs him buying players and Poch goes he can demand an insane amount as Poch is in high demand. Or is it a case of just paying up his contract.?

I want Poch to stay i think if he left it would break my heart he means more to me than my wife!

Agreed. He also means more to me than your wife!

 

[Lilbaz]

He was going to leave. If we didnt get him he would be somewhere else. Then we would be moaning at Levy for not trying to get him when at the time we needed to replace Sherwood.

How do you know that? Because it was reported in the papers? Didn't show much respect to soton or their fans did they?

 

[worcestersauce]

This is the reason everyone regardless of what team they support should stop buying their papers ?

View attachment 43350

And I believe that was the independant not just the red tops.
The problem with this is that it really doesn't matter what you say when you are the subject of this sort of media storm, the media will just go on blagging it and you just feed the frenzy, the basic rule in this situation is "admit nothing, deny nothing, say nothing" let them burn themselves out, by this time next month they'll be telling us why Poch isn't going anywhere and a couple of months after that they'll probably introduce Real Madrid into the story.
One thing I do think is even if we think the unthinkable, that Poch leaves then we will not approach the search for a new coach like we did previously, we will have top coaches ready and willing to take over, we will not be fishing in the same barrel at all.

 

[Lilbaz]

And I believe that was the independant not just the red tops.
The problem with this is that it really doesn't matter what you say when you are the subject of this sort of media storm, the media will just go on blagging it and you just feed the frenzy, the basic rule in this situation is "admit nothing, deny nothing, say nothing" let them burn themselves out, by this time next month they'll be telling us why Poch isn't going anywhere and a couple of months after that they'll probably introduce Real Madrid into the story.
One thing I do think is even if we think the unthinkable, that Poch leaves then we will not approach the search for a new coach like we did previously, we will have top coaches ready and willing to take over, we will not be fishing in the same barrel at all.

Yet they are saying we'll go for eddie howe. (Yes i know it's bs).

 

[THX2208]

And I believe that was the independant not just the red tops.
The problem with this is that it really doesn't matter what you say when you are the subject of this sort of media storm, the media will just go on blagging it and you just feed the frenzy, the basic rule in this situation is "admit nothing, deny nothing, say nothing" let them burn themselves out, by this time next month they'll be telling us why Poch isn't going anywhere and a couple of months after that they'll probably introduce Real Madrid into the story.
One thing I do think is even if we think the unthinkable, that Poch leaves then we will not approach the search for a new coach like we did previously, we will have top coaches ready and willing to take over, we will not be fishing in the same barrel at all.

It was The Independant buddy. Great post! I agree 100% with it, its time for calm heads atm ?

 

[robertgoulet]

And I believe that was the independant not just the red tops.
The problem with this is that it really doesn't matter what you say when you are the subject of this sort of media storm, the media will just go on blagging it and you just feed the frenzy, the basic rule in this situation is "admit nothing, deny nothing, say nothing" let them burn themselves out, by this time next month they'll be telling us why Poch isn't going anywhere and a couple of months after that they'll probably introduce Real Madrid into the story.
One thing I do think is even if we think the unthinkable, that Poch leaves then we will not approach the search for a new coach like we did previously, we will have top coaches ready and willing to take over, we will not be fishing in the same barrel at all.

We'll be a few days past a dismantling of the same Man U team he's being linked to. Either that will drum the rumors back up (see, that's why he HAS to go to Man U!) or kill them (why would he go there?).

 

[Lilbaz]

Starting to think he will go now. Utd knew they were going to sack jose and would have a good idea who their next manager would be. Blanc and zidane were both available so it wont be them as they got a caretaker in. Both have good records. So it is either someone more successful or poch. If mitchell joins them as dof or head of recruitment i think that's it. Feared this in the summer when we got nobody. Poch must look at it that it will be years before the stadium is paid and we can start spending decent money on players. All the while chelsea, arsenal and utd will be strengthening let alone city and liverpool. It will take a miracle just for us to remain in the cl, let alone win cl or prem.

Really hope i'm wrong.

Although saying that they still have to negotiate with levy, which i doubt they're looking forward to.

 

[worcestersauce]

How do you know that? Because it was reported in the papers? Didn't show much respect to soton or their fans did they?

I really thought him leaving was on the cards as soon as they got rid of Cortese, knowing their relationship and the reasons he went were exactly the reasons Poch would leave so any reporting, and there was nothing like this, was based on an understanding of that solid reasoning.
That said I don't actually disagree with your basic message that we shouldn't take it all so seriously as it is just papertalk and a media feeding frenzy with no facts to back it up.
As a for instance on the talksport page they had "Pochottino has let it be known he is interested in the post" in quotes, the fact that they were quoting another outlet's story which carried no quotation marks and was made up was an irrelevance, they were quoting someone so they used them.

 

[vegassd]

Starting to think he will go now. Utd knew they were going to sack jose and would have a good idea who their next manager would be. Blanc and zidane were both available so it wont be them as they got a caretaker in.

I believe the idea of using an interim is so they don't need to rush the new appointment. Their board are going to look at restructuring their football management system and scouting, and are going to get their setup sorted before going out to get the manager.

Worrying about Poch leaving isn't going to change the situation, so don't put yourself through it mate.

 

[Mr Pink]

Unfortunately, like most things in life, there's a food chain. It's no different here. We have done fantastically well since Poch took charge, cementing a top 4 place consistently, which given our financial clout is an unbelievable achievement. It's never been so good in my lifetime as a fan.

But Man Utd are way above us in the food chain, regardless of recent seasons. They have unbelievable achievements in the modern game, are 1 of the top 2 biggest clubs in the world, and can pay whatever wages they please. So regardless of what Poch does, my point is in relation to the Utd fans who many are angry at because of their sense of entitlement at securing Poch as their manager. It's the food chain.

When Poch came from Southampton, were any of us considering the job he'd done there with what he had at his disposal so he might not want to leave? No. It was the case of we're a bigger club so unlucky to all you Southampton fans. If Poch went and we went for Eddie Howe, we would fully expect him to come, because we're a much bigger club. Sod Bournemouth, who cares?! To me, there's no difference. As much as I hate utd I understand their thinking to be honest.

I really hope he stays. He might be the best manager I see at Spurs.

I disagree with this, to an extent anyway.

And I absolutely hate the Southampton comparison.

Firstly, were Southampton continuing to out perform us in the League, or were they, at the time, above us in the League when we were moving for Pochettino? No.

Did they have a better squad than us? No.

Were they on the cusp of delivering a state of the art stadium in order to compete with the top tier? No.

Were they evening threatening to compete with us at all? No.

IMHO, its a vastly different comparison.

Yes Man United are a massive Club and are bigger than us in pretty much every conceivable way, but the context is just staggeringly different to us and Southampton.

The point for me is that our potential is ridiculously high now, and this new stadium coupled with Pochettino staying on would undoubtedly see us become one of the truly big Clubs.

We'd arrive at the party, and one suspects it would be Pep, Poch and Klopp dominating for years to come.

If Poch goes to United, it wouldn't be a case of swapping one project with another - at similar stages of their development.

What's more ambitious:

1) transforming a Club that was below the elite into an elite Club, where resources have been constrained, or

2) with an open cheque book to re-establish an elite Club among the elite

I really believe Poch can achieve everything here. People talk like it can't be done and he has to go to United, but it can.

If Poch believes this, and I think he does, I think he'll stay after careful consideration.

 

[SpursDave88]

Unfortunately, like most things in life, there's a food chain. It's no different here. We have done fantastically well since Poch took charge, cementing a top 4 place consistently, which given our financial clout is an unbelievable achievement. It's never been so good in my lifetime as a fan.

But Man Utd are way above us in the food chain, regardless of recent seasons. They have unbelievable achievements in the modern game, are 1 of the top 2 biggest clubs in the world, and can pay whatever wages they please. So regardless of what Poch does, my point is in relation to the Utd fans who many are angry at because of their sense of entitlement at securing Poch as their manager. It's the food chain.

When Poch came from Southampton, were any of us considering the job he'd done there with what he had at his disposal so he might not want to leave? No. It was the case of we're a bigger club so unlucky to all you Southampton fans. If Poch went and we went for Eddie Howe, we would fully expect him to come, because we're a much bigger club. Sod Bournemouth, who cares?! To me, there's no difference. As much as I hate utd I understand their thinking to be honest.

I really hope he stays. He might be the best manager I see at Spurs.

This is exactly the moronic perspective I'm talking about.

The analogy with us and Southampton is completely false as even when we were doing very poorly we still finished far above Southampton even with Tim Sherwood at the helm.

We finish above united most seasons. We will most probably be in the champions league next year - they will not. We have better players, a better stadium, better facilities and a better manager.

As things stand we are far more likely to win a major trophy in the next three years than they are.

Given this - what would make them even a comparable prospect to us, let alone a better one other than the fact that they are called Manchester United and we are called Tottenham Hotspur.

 

[Lilbaz]

I believe the idea of using an interim is so they don't need to rush the new appointment. Their board are going to look at restructuring their football management system and scouting, and are going to get their setup sorted before going out to get the manager.

Worrying about Poch leaving isn't going to change the situation, so don't put yourself through it mate.

I don't worry about anything. I'll be sad if he goes and it would kill to see him at utd but we'll move on.

 

[Kilkenny Cat]

Good question.

This thread appears to have a lot of amateur accountants. Same as the media. Spouting stuff they don't really understand.

I'll try and explain how things might work.

"Investment" covers a whole slew of types of money. The most basic is Ordinary Shares, that define who owns the company, controls the AGM votes, and ultimately receives the shareholder value via dividends or sale of the company. The Ordinary Shares are owned by ENIC (Joe Lewis and Daniel Levy) with a balance (15%?) owned by loads of small shareholders, basically Spurs fans, who've owned them for years (I bought mine mid-80s when we floated).

If Joe Lewis "invested" say £100m for new Ordinary Shares, he'd expect to get an even bigger percentage of the company. If he did it through ENIC, it's a question of whether Daniel can match his money to keep his own % share the same? Or ENIC could maybe borrow money to invest? It's complex and there are many variables. Too many to discuss here. The point is an injection of new money via Ordinary Shares (what's called a Rights Issue) is possible but seems unlikely.

Unless it's an agreed 'offer' whereby a new party (say a US, Asian or middle eastern investor) buys say £100m worth of new Spurs shares and receives a minority stake in the Club / company. So £100m would get you 10% (I'm simplifying to make maths easy, if we value Spurs at £1 billion).

Much MORE likely is that the "investment" comes in the form of something other than Ordinary Shares.

1. It could be debt. Some kind of loan. But given that the Club / Company has already borrowed substantially from banks to fund the new stadium it's unlikely. Our 'gearing' (ratio of Shares to Debt, simply put) might start to be stretched, leaving aside the borrowing costs (interest, etc.) of more debt. Even if Joe Lewis was prepared to lend £100m (instead of getting £100m worth of new shares) a combination of financial factors, accounting rules and FFP, make that something the directors of the Club might not be able to consider.

2. It could be a hybrid type of finance between equity (Ordinary Shares) and debt (loan). This includes Preference or 'B' Shares. I don't have time to try and explain here now but they don't give the same 'voting' or 'ownership' rights as Ordinary Shares but don't count as loans either. If there are buyers out there, this type of finance is possible.

3. Personally I think the Stadium Rights deal is the most likely kind of "investment" we'll get in 2019. I've seen posts here saying "Levy must get off his butt and do a deal". Incredibly naïve. Levy could do a naming rights deal any time. If he was prepared to do a crap deal. But once signed, a naming rights deal can't be unsigned for 10+ years (often longer). The money would be fixed, give or take. The stadium would be named. Any other interest from other companies would disappear. So Levy's been holding out for as good a deal as possible (which should surprise nobody who's familiar with the man). He's been waiting for people to be able to see the finished stadium, for greater clarity about Wembley/NFL etc., probably for the World economic situation to become more positive. He's playing high stakes poker. He wants the stadium sponsor to pay what he thinks the rights are worth (a lot).

We are lucky in that Pochettino is a very intelligent man. He studied business after his playing career. I think one of the reasons he gets on with Levy is that he can speak the same language. He's not a moaner (unlike many top managers) who just wants more and more money to spend on players. He doesn't think like most journos and pundits (and many fans).

Equally, (I suspect) he doesn't want his intelligence and loyalty to be taken for granted. He knows that the gap to Man City will be hard to bridge without more money. His difference with Levy is about 'courage' not principle. Read his book. Poch is a man for whom bravery is paramount. That's why we play out from the back and press high, and risk mistakes and counter-attacks. Levy is different. He's responsible for a historic Club. He won't do a Ridsdale and bet the Club for a bit of glory. But the idea that Levy is just a bean counter obsessed with caution just isn't supported by the facts of nearly two decades. In short, the men are nowhere near as different as cliché might make it appear.

Brilliant post. You went above and beyond the call of duty there. Many thanks!

That's a really interesting theory about the two of them being far more alike than it appears. Couldn't agree more about Poch not being "a moaner". He exudes positivity, which is one reason the team continually bounces back from bad results. He NEVER allows one bad result to become the beginning of an infection.

I've seen him described, snottily, by fans as "a company man". I should feckin' hope so. I'd be horrified if he wasn't. Look at a certain person in the news this week who emphatically wasn't a company man and what that led to...

 

[Gilzeanking]

I can't really see Poch at Utd myself . He's not really a galactico type manager ,he doesn't want massive signings with suitably massive egos he's more of a team spirit man and rebuilding at Utd will be a long job . Why go there when his careful build here is coming to fruition ? ...I reckon we don't have to worry personally .

Unless there is something in the media I haven't heard.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Unfortunately, like most things in life, there's a food chain. It's no different here. We have done fantastically well since Poch took charge, cementing a top 4 place consistently, which given our financial clout is an unbelievable achievement. It's never been so good in my lifetime as a fan.

But Man Utd are way above us in the food chain, regardless of recent seasons. They have unbelievable achievements in the modern game, are 1 of the top 2 biggest clubs in the world, and can pay whatever wages they please. So regardless of what Poch does, my point is in relation to the Utd fans who many are angry at because of their sense of entitlement at securing Poch as their manager. It's the food chain.

When Poch came from Southampton, were any of us considering the job he'd done there with what he had at his disposal so he might not want to leave? No. It was the case of we're a bigger club so unlucky to all you Southampton fans. If Poch went and we went for Eddie Howe, we would fully expect him to come, because we're a much bigger club. Sod Bournemouth, who cares?! To me, there's no difference. As much as I hate utd I understand their thinking to be honest.

I really hope he stays. He might be the best manager I see at Spurs.

I think this is largely untrue.

There is a food chain - and United are above us - but not nearly as much above us as say, 5-10 years ago. Most of that is down to TV money being a great equalizer in terms of revenues as opposed to United falling - the world has become more compact, if you will. Even Mourinho recognized this when he made the comment about how difficult it would be for United to simply buy a SPurs player - just because they asked. We would not expect Levy to sell Kane to United - and I don't see any reason to think otherwise with Poch.

Poch is already one of the highest paid managers in the league. Yes, he can get more at United - but its no longer a life-changing difference.

I think Managers, in general, want the same things as players - they want a chance to win, and they want to be paid well. I think the difference between Man United and Spurs - today, not historically - on both counts is negligible.

And, you can't compare the situation with Southampton to now. Southampton had sacked the chairman who brought Poch to England, and was systematically dismantling the team, and selling most pieces to Liverpool. So, the "project" was completely bust, and Poch wanted out. Now, the project is not bust - Levy is not selling all of the players out from under Poch. Its true, Spurs don't have the same budget as United - but we have a much better platform - in terms of players.

I don't know what is in Poch's head. But, I would be surprised if he is pushing for a move to Manchester United - where he would have to start his project all over again.

 

[Lilbaz]

I think this is largely untrue.

There is a food chain - and United are above us - but not nearly as much above us as say, 5-10 years ago. Most of that is down to TV money being a great equalizer in terms of revenues as opposed to United falling - the world has become more compact, if you will. Even Mourinho recognized this when he made the comment about how difficult it would be for United to simply buy a SPurs player - just because they asked. We would not expect Levy to sell Kane to United - and I don't see any reason to think otherwise with Poch.

Poch is already one of the highest paid managers in the league. Yes, he can get more at United - but its no longer a life-changing difference.

I think Managers, in general, want the same things as players - they want a chance to win, and they want to be paid well. I think the difference between Man United and Spurs - today, not historically - on both counts is negligible.

And, you can't compare the situation with Southampton to now. Southampton had sacked the chairman who brought Poch to England, and was systematically dismantling the team, and selling most pieces to Liverpool. So, the "project" was completely bust, and Poch wanted out. Now, the project is not bust - Levy is not selling all of the players out from under Poch. Its true, Spurs don't have the same budget as United - but we have a much better platform - in terms of players.

I don't know what is in Poch's head. But, I would be surprised if he is pushing for a move to Manchester United - where he would have to start his project all over again.

Levy and poch will need to have a long talk. And somehow levy needs to find funds to help us push on. We will not be able to match the spending of the citys, chelseas or utds but we can't have another summer like the last one. Otherwise poch will just see it as impossible not to just improve but to hold onto cl place.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

Levy and poch will need to have a long talk. And somehow levy needs to find funds to help us push on. We will not be able to match the spending of the citys, chelseas or utds but we can't have another summer like the last one. Otherwise poch will just see it as impossible not to just improve but to hold onto cl place.

I guess we need the stadium completed so we know what the overall cost is, the stadium sponsorship agreed and perhaps a sale of equity in the club for additional.

That should be enough along with the sale of unwanted players to give Poch a good budget.

 

[Typical Spurs]

This is exactly the moronic perspective I'm talking about.

The analogy with us and Southampton is completely false as even when we were doing very poorly we still finished far above Southampton even with Tim Sherwood at the helm.

We finish above united most seasons. We will most probably be in the champions league next year - they will not. We have better players, a better stadium, better facilities and a better manager.

As things stand we are far more likely to win a major trophy in the next three years than they are.

Given this - what would make them even a comparable prospect to us, let alone a better one other than the fact that they are called Manchester United and we are called Tottenham Hotspur.

As things stand, are we far more likely chance of winning something in the next 3 years? Utd have been very odinary in the last 4 years. They have still won the FA cup once, League cup once, charity shield once and the Europa League once. Let that settle in for a moment.

 

[SpursDave88]

As things stand, are we far more likely chance of winning something in the next 3 years? Utd have been very odinary in the last 4 years. They have still won the FA cup once, League cup once, charity shield once and the Europa League once. Let that settle in for a moment.

Yes...yes we are.