The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[Dakes]

Good point and if the PL only consisted of teams who had won silverware in the last 10 years it would look pretty bare , do have to wonder why fans of other teams e.g Palace , Everton etc turn up every week, none of them have any chance of winning much.

Our fans turn up every week too, even though it feels like we don't have a chance of winning much, if anything.

I don't think many people are going around calling Palace or Everton bot*****, for example, because no one really expects them to win anything. There is a reason Spurs carries a perennial bott***** tag. That tag comes because you position yourself to be playing among the big boys, but you never see it through. You always do just enough to keep up the façade. There's no facade with teams like Palace, everyone knows they're there to make up the numbers.

No one expects Palace to win much, and their ticket and other prices reflects this. Can the same be said of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club?

 

[Japhet]

Our fans turn up every week too, even though it feels like we don't have a chance of winning much, if anything.

I don't think many people are going around calling Palace or Everton bot*****, for example, because no one really expects them to win anything. There is a reason Spurs carries a perennial bott***** tag. That tag comes because you position yourself to be playing among the big boys, but you never see it through. You always do just enough to keep up the façade. There's no facade with teams like Palace, everyone knows they're there to make up the numbers.

No one expects Palace to win much, and their ticket and other prices reflects this. Can the same be said of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club?

We're continually in the situation of 'taking a knife to a gun fight'. Problem is, the guns just keep getting bigger and bigger and the best we can come up with is a bigger knife.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Our fans turn up every week too, even though it feels like we don't have a chance of winning much, if anything.

I don't think many people are going around calling Palace or Everton bot*****, for example, because no one really expects them to win anything.

If you look at Everton's trophy record it's similar to ours , last League title 1986/7 , last FA cup win 1994/5 , Everton are very much like Spurs a big name in the past but not currently and with lower ticket prices

 

[arunspurs]

I dont have any problem with the statement from board....except for the part of lack of commitment on winning title or trophies.

Thats the line fans expect to see. So, hence the huge disconnect.

 

[Darth Vega]

? Case in point. The same is true for 17 other teams in the league. We dont have the backing of a nation state. Some fans need to get over that. We have done it organically, similar to to Arsenal, however we're a good few years behind them. Their new stadium changed it for them, but they had to wait a good number of years for the payoff. Our fans expect the payoff almost the next day ?

honestly, it feels like we're only one step away from setting up a Spurs Fans TV ??

We already make more money than them. The frustration is that what they're doing now we were already doing under Pochettino. Even with the new stadium to build we just needed to spend smarter and we could have got over the line.

Honestly the issue isn't even that of money anymore, not as much as people think.

When our chairman releases a statement about returning to free-flowing, attacking football with an emphasis on youth and then proceeds to speak to every manager in Europe before landing on Nuno, that's a lack of vision.

When that same chairman then sacks that manager (rightly, admittedly) hires the guy who he initially spoke to in the summer but ruled out, only to realise that maybe their visions aren't aligned after all, that's a consequence of that lack of vision.

When the same chairman spends up to £20M on a player in a critical position in the manager's team on a player he never even asked for, that's undermining the manager for no good reason whatsoever.

This isn't even a new problem. Off the top of my head, some Levyisms that should strike fear into the heart of every Spurs supporter:

• Hiring Frank Arnesen only to ignore his suggestion to hire Martin Jol, proceed to hire Santini instead (boring defensive football - this isn't a new problem) only to sack Santini within 13 games and promote Jol anyway, wasting the first third and consequently most of that season.
  
  
• Coming into 2007/2008 we had Defoe, Berbatov and Keane as our strikers but the rest of the team needed work. Defoe was already making noises about being unhappy due to a lack of playing time, so what did we do? Spend a club record £17M to sign Darren Bent because Levy had been chasing him for years. That January we sold Defoe, and in the summer Keane and Berbatov left. Levy spent the entirety of that summer trying to spark a bidding war between the Manchester clubs and got his wish, giving us an extra £5M for Berbatov on deadline day. This lead to inadequate, last-minute replacements in Fraizer Cambpell and Pavlyuchenko. This meant we lost the one functioning part of our side, didn't improve as much of the rest of the team as we should have (we did sign the likes of Modric, Corluka and others, but see: £17M on Darren Bent) which all had a strong influence on leading us into a relegation battle - Ramos wasn't amazing but he did not become that shit overnight. We sacked Ramos, brought in Redknapp, and had to spend a shit ton more money in January to stop us from going down (which, tragically, included bringing back both Keane and Defoe). We wasted basically an entire season to fail to replace Berbatov, sack a manager, and we didn't even make a profit.
  
  
• Getting into the Champions League for the first time and only signing Gallas (free), Sandro (I can't remember but can't have been much) and Van der Vaart (an opportunistic buy for £8M).
  
  
• After selling Bale we signed seven players the manager never asked for. Again, AVB wasn't really the answer, but by this point undermining the manager has emerged as a clear pattern (also if we're in agreement that a lot of these managers are shit, there's only one person to blame for appointing them all).
  
  
• Spending circa 18 months in an attempt to rip the heart and soul out of the club to move us to East London to save some money (it would have been a lot of money, granted, but there are lines that you simply do not cross no matter what).
  
  
• Signing Lucas Moura across three transfer windows; Poch takes some of the blame here but again there's a clear pattern emerging.
  
  
• To top it off, we have galavanted aimlessly from manager to manager, style to style, over 20 years. Santini to Jol; Juande to Harry; Harry to AVB; Poch to Jose; we - or rather Levy - has never had an idea of what our identity actually is. It's one thing to say you want to play nice football but the majority of Levy's appointments have all been very defensive managers, starting with Santini. This isn't even to mention the fact that his three best appointments (Jol, Redknapp, Pochettino) all had a great degree of fortune; Jol I've covered, Redknapp was brought in to save us from relegation partly because of the shitshow in undermining the previous guy, and Levy wanted Van Gaal over Poch (how they were even on the same shortlist tells you all you need to know).
  
  
• We are the most expensive club in the world to go and watch.

This is already a long post but I could go on and on and on. Name me a Spurs manager, year or transfer window and i'll name you a fuck up that could qualify as an alarm bell at best and a sackable offense at worst. People who think that having and spending more money than we already do (we're already the 9th richest club in the world and have spent a lot in recent years) would fix all our problems are wrong. We have effectively been run like a worse version of Chelsea these past twenty years, and all we would become is a worse version of what United have been under Woodward these past 10 years, just with a fancier stadium.

It's aimless, it's directionless, and they've got no clue. Money might be an issue but it isn't the issue.

Levy out. ENIC out.

 

[Dakes]

We're continually in the situation of 'taking a knife to a gun fight'. Problem is, the guns just keep getting bigger and bigger and the best we can come up with is a bigger knife.

Then wave a lilywhite flag, leave the gun fight and go play in the sandpit with the other kids and leave the adults to do their thing.

 

[nico97531]

Exactly this. And I actually agree with Neville’s comments about being surprised about the negativity when challenging top 4 and a cup run is good season for spurs.

To be frank, we all know the negativity is really just about fans being butt hurt that gooners are top of the league. Our fans can’t deal with it like adults so they’re irrationally lashing out at Levy/ENIC. While conveniently forgetting the process it took Arsenal to get where they are now, and how we’ve only just begun the same journey with Paratici/Conte.

That depends what is the the aim of the club and fan’s expectations, if the aim is to only compete for top 4 and a good cup run then yes we should all be positive as we are very much still in it but if the aim is to not just compete for top 4 but also use this season to improve the team’s weaknesses so that we will have an actual chance of competing for honors next season then no, there’s every reason to be negative as we didn’t do enough again leaving known problems unsolved.

I have seen a lot of posts saying we should be satisfied with our current situation, remember the nineties, there are fans from half a dozen teams in the league wishing to be in our shoes, you don’t see them revolting against the ownership but isn’t it the same thing that harry redknapp once implied that we shouldn’t be complaining as “we’ve never had it so good”. I don’t agreed with it then and I certainly don’t agree with it now.
I won’t be against Levy if I feel the club is doing the best it can to achieve on field success which is how I felt prior to the completion of the stadium, the lack of investment then was disappointing but understandable. However now it’s not the case anymore, the anger and frustrations came from the fact that we had choose not to reach the next level, not because we can’t.

to the point of fans from other clubs, well I think any fans will be having the same discussion if their club like us are not making adequate on field investment while making record breaking profits and charging the highest ticket prices in the world.

 

[HedgieSpur]

Comparing protesting against ENIC to the anti-apartheid movement WOW. I really need to log off for the day.

you clearly didn’t read what was written very well. There was no such comparison at all.

Nonetheless, feel free to log off for the day.

 

[ReadieSpur]

We already make more money than them. The frustration is that what they're doing now we were already doing under Pochettino. Even with the new stadium to build we just needed to spend smarter and we could have got over the line.

Honestly the issue isn't even that of money anymore, not as much as people think.

When our chairman releases a statement about returning to free-flowing, attacking football with an emphasis on youth and then proceeds to speak to every manager in Europe before landing on Nuno, that's a lack of vision.

When that same chairman then sacks that manager (rightly, admittedly) hires the guy who he initially spoke to in the summer but ruled out, only to realise that maybe their visions aren't aligned after all, that's a consequence of that lack of vision.

When the same chairman spends up to £20M on a player in a critical position in the manager's team on a player he never even asked for, that's undermining the manager for no good reason whatsoever.

This isn't even a new problem. Off the top of my head, some Levyisms that should strike fear into the heart of every Spurs supporter:

• Hiring Frank Arnesen only to ignore his suggestion to hire Martin Jol, proceed to hire Santini instead (boring defensive football - this isn't a new problem) only to sack Santini within 13 games and promote Jol anyway, wasting the first third and consequently most of that season.
  
  
• Coming into 2007/2008 we had Defoe, Berbatov and Keane as our strikers but the rest of the team needed work. Defoe was already making noises about being unhappy due to a lack of playing time, so what did we do? Spend a club record £17M to sign Darren Bent because Levy had been chasing him for years. That January we sold Defoe, and in the summer Keane and Berbatov left. Levy spent the entirety of that summer trying to spark a bidding war between the Manchester clubs and got his wish, giving us an extra £5M for Berbatov on deadline day. This lead to inadequate, last-minute replacements in Fraizer Cambpell and Pavlyuchenko. This meant we lost the one functioning part of our side, didn't improve as much of the rest of the team as we should have (we did sign the likes of Modric, Corluka and others, but see: £17M on Darren Bent) which all had a strong influence on leading us into a relegation battle - Ramos wasn't amazing but he did not become that shit overnight. We sacked Ramos, brought in Redknapp, and had to spend a shit ton more money in January to stop us from going down (which, tragically, included bringing back both Keane and Defoe). We wasted basically an entire season to fail to replace Berbatov, sack a manager, and we didn't even make a profit.
  
  
• Getting into the Champions League for the first time and only signing Gallas (free), Sandro (I can't remember but can't have been much) and Van der Vaart (an opportunistic buy for £8M).
  
  
• After selling Bale we signed seven players the manager never asked for. Again, AVB wasn't really the answer, but by this point undermining the manager has emerged as a clear pattern (also if we're in agreement that a lot of these managers are shit, there's only one person to blame for appointing them all).
  
  
• Spending circa 18 months in an attempt to rip the heart and soul out of the club to move us to East London to save some money (it would have been a lot of money, granted, but there are lines that you simply do not cross no matter what).
  
  
• Signing Lucas Moura across three transfer windows; Poch takes some of the blame here but again there's a clear pattern emerging.
  
  
• To top it off, we have galavanted aimlessly from manager to manager, style to style, over 20 years. Santini to Jol; Juande to Harry; Harry to AVB; Poch to Jose; we - or rather Levy - has never had an idea of what our identity actually is. It's one thing to say you want to play nice football but the majority of Levy's appointments have all been very defensive managers, starting with Santini. This isn't even to mention the fact that his three best appointments (Jol, Redknapp, Pochettino) all had a great degree of fortune; Jol I've covered, Redknapp was brought in to save us from relegation partly because of the shitshow in undermining the previous guy, and Levy wanted Van Gaal over Poch (how they were even on the same shortlist tells you all you need to know).
  
  
• We are the most expensive club in the world to go and watch.

This is already a long post but I could go on and on and on. Name me a Spurs manager, year or transfer window and i'll name you a fuck up that could qualify as an alarm bell at best and a sackable offense at worst. People who think that having and spending more money than we already do (we're already the 9th richest club in the world and have spent a lot in recent years) would fix all our problems are wrong. We have effectively been run like a worse version of Chelsea these past twenty years, and all we would become is a worse version of what United have been under Woodward these past 10 years, just with a fancier stadium.

It's aimless, it's directionless, and they've got no clue. Money might be an issue but it isn't the issue.

Levy out. ENIC out.

No one is denying that mistakes haven't been made along the way, but over that whole time period you have covered, we have had a massive upwards trajectory. Previously it was only Aston Villa that were considered as challengers to the top 4. its now a top 6, because of Man City (oil money) and Us. We need to push on and continue on the path that we are on. As i have said, mistakes have been made, but the strides forward greatly outweigh them.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

That depends what is the the aim of the club and fan’s expectations, if the aim is to only compete for top 4 and a good cup run then yes we should all be positive as we are very much still in it but if the aim is to not just compete for top 4 but also use this season to improve the team’s weaknesses so that we will have an actual chance of competing for honors next season then no, there’s every reason to be negative as we didn’t do enough again leaving known problems unsolved.

I have seen a lot of posts saying we should be satisfied with our current situation, remember the nineties, there are fans from half a dozen teams in the league wishing to be in our shoes, you don’t see them revolting against the ownership but isn’t it the same thing that harry redknapp once implied that we shouldn’t be complaining as “we’ve never had it so good”. I don’t agreed with it then and I certainly don’t agree with it now.
I won’t be against Levy if I feel the club is doing the best it can to achieve on field success which is how I felt prior to the completion of the stadium, the lack of investment then was disappointing but understandable. However now it’s not the case anymore, the anger and frustrations came from the fact that we had choose not to reach the next level, not because we can’t.

to the point of fans from other clubs, well I think any fans will be having the same discussion if their club like us are not making adequate on field investment while making record breaking profits and charging the highest ticket prices in the world.

A lot of this is just impatience though. The club have appointed a DOF who knows how to build high level winning teams. A manager who knows how to coach them to win titles. Both have repeatedly said we need time and patience to build that side - adding 2-3 quality players per window.

They have both been here just over a year. In that time the club have consistently made signings. We have one of the biggest net spends in europe.

Yes we all want every single gap in the squad/team solved in one transfer window but that's just wholly unrealistic. The question you have to ask yourself is: is this squad better than the one Paratici inherited? The answer is yes every single time. We've strengthened midfield, wingback, added attacking depth, and a top quality defender in Romero.

A couple more windows and I don't think anyone can dispute that the squad will be in a really good position to challenge. This is how Arsenal did it and previously Liverpool. They are realistic, sustainable models that we have to follow. Forget about teams owned by nation states or Chelscum.

I can see the plan. We just need patience.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Amazing how nobody ever mentions the good buys made by Spurs under Levy and whatever manager was around , Modric , Berbatov Bale etc unfortunately they all wanted to move to bigger clubs and Real & Man U are a bigger attraction than Spurs.

 

[Darth Vega]

No one is denying that mistakes haven't been made along the way, but over that whole time period you have covered, we have had a massive upwards trajectory. Previously it was only Aston Villa that were considered as challengers to the top 4. its now a top 6, because of Man City (oil money) and Us. We need to push on and continue on the path that we are on. As i have said, mistakes have been made, but the strides forward greatly outweigh them.

Equally, no one is denying the progress we've made either. I think everyone acknowledges the strides made under Levy and ENIC, but at the same time the last step is the hardest one, and they've shown nothing to suggest that they know how to take it. Sometimes players and managers can do a great job but reach a point where they simply don't have what it takes to go any further so you shake hands and part ways - this is where we're at with Levy and ENIC.

The issue here isn't that mistakes have been made - that's just a part of life - the issue is that the same mistakes made in 2003 are being made in 2023. In any line of work I would never be allowed to make the same error over the course of 20 years because I'd have been sacked long, long before I reached year 20. At this point I've no idea why Levy should be trusted with the club's vision, which essentially means the manager and recruitment strategy, especially when the competition is as fierce as it is.

 

[Chirpystheman]

That statement wasn't worth the pixels it took to put it on the Internet. You just have to laugh at this club. Like I said in one of the other threads and got tons of negative ratings, Levy has become the master of claiming transfers twice. He talks about 200m spent in the summer. I don't see how that's the case as everywhere seems to suggest its closer to 120m(unless they are including wages). He then talks about the committed spend on Porro. So if hes going to claim Porro as committed spend why does he include Romero in money spent in the summer as that was committed spend from a previous window.

If Danjuma works out we will have spent 110m before we've even started this summer. We've struggled to sell the players out on loan for 2 years. None are covering themselves in glory so no idea how we are going to sell them to fund the new GK 2CBs and RWF before potentially needing to replace Kane. All with a new manager and likely a DoF

Levy and Enic are frauds. Unfortunately while the stadium is printing money for them and they can do more shady dealings regarding land around the stadium which doesn't benefit the club they are going nowhere. I look forward to seeing the accounts

 

[nico97531]

A lot of this is just impatience though. The club have appointed a DOF who knows how to build high level winning teams. A manager who knows how to coach them to win titles. Both have repeatedly said we need time and patience to build that side - adding 2-3 quality players per window.

They have both been here just over a year. In that time the club have consistently made signings. We have one of the biggest net spends in europe.

Yes we all want every single gap in the squad/team solved in one transfer window but that's just wholly unrealistic. The question you have to ask yourself is: is this squad better than the one Paratici inherited? The answer is yes every single time. We've strengthened midfield, wingback, added attacking depth, and a top quality defender in Romero.

A couple more windows and I don't think anyone can dispute that the squad will be in a really good position to challenge. This is how Arsenal did it and previously Liverpool. They are realistic, sustainable models that we have to follow. Forget about teams owned by nation states or Chelscum.

I can see the plan. We just need patience.

It’s not impatient when we know the club could have done more. Nobody expected the club to solve all the problems of the squad in one transfer window but to known about the problem at the back and still haven’t rectified it after 3 windows is simply not good enough.

I am glad that you can see the plan but by the fact that we are probably losing the coach in that plan due to the fact that he doesn’t feel he’s getting what he needs to compete makes me feel that it may not be a very good plan.

 

[Nerine]

I look forward to seeing the accounts

I think people will (rightly) lose their shit when they see those...

I'm expecting an absolute bloodbath.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

It’s not impatient when we know the club could have done more. Nobody expected the club to solve all the problems of the squad in one transfer window but to known about the problem at the back and still haven’t rectified it after 3 windows is simply not good enough.

I am glad that you can see the plan but by the fact that we are probably losing the coach in that plan due to the fact that he doesn’t feel he’s getting what he needs to compete makes me feel that it may not be a very good plan.

Every club 'could have done more'. No one was talking about there being a big problem at the back in summer. Everyone was clamouring for Dier to be back in the England squad because he has been so good under Conte, praising Davies for performing so well in a role he was suited for, and interested to see how Lenglet would do as a rotation option.

If we couldn't get our targets it wasn't seen as this massive priority you are making out to be. Especially as up to very recently our defensive record has been brilliant under Conte.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I think people will (rightly) lose their shit when they see those...

I'm expecting an absolute bloodbath.

TBH and obviously speaking for myself, I couldn't care less about the accounts right now. They'll show what one or the other side wants them to show, people will spend two days bickering about the ins and outs of what they numbers mean and even if the very very VERY unlikely event someone 'wins' the argument none of it, absolutely none of it means much. They won't mean we haven't been badly run, they won't mean we've been well run, they won't mean anything. None of it will resolve the glaring boil on the nose of the issue, we're being run, on the football side of things, by a person who isn't up to the job.

And the numbers won't mean we're suddenly problem free and that the fans are suddenly going to like all this. But people will have at it again, over something that really doesn't change much except giving a different direction on the cockpointing compass

 

[jurgen11]

They fully taking the piss out of you lot ??

"All the single wingbacks , all the single wingbacks..."

 

[NEVILLEB]

The statement just shows how little respect they have for the fans.

It also shows a disconnect between how they view themselves and how the world views them.

The fact that they appear to be almost insulted by the criticism just shows how self centered they are.

 

[nico97531]

Every club 'could have done more'. No one was talking about there being a big problem at the back in summer. Everyone was clamouring for Dier to be back in the England squad because he has been so good under Conte, praising Davies for performing so well in a role he was suited for, and interested to see how Lenglet would do as a rotation option.

If we couldn't get our targets it wasn't seen as this massive priority you are making out to be. Especially as up to very recently our defensive record has been brilliant under Conte.

Maybe not every one thought that replacing Dier was a priority last year but the LCB was a position Conte wanted improvement on since he joined, I thought that was pretty clear.

we had a brilliant defensive record under Jose too until it stopped being brilliant, similarly he too asked for improvement in the defense which he also didn’t get. You see where this is going? A plan that sees us recruiting one good defender since 2019 is simply not good enough.