The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[newbie]

It’s great how Edwards goes from hero to zero to hero to zero nice to know spurs fans are not a fickle bunch

 

[beats1]

Every one of our age group teams from U16 up (don't follow any younger than that!) are amongst the best in the world right now.

- Our U19s won their Euros this summer
- Our U17s were runners up, losing the final on penalties
- Our U20s won their World Cup
- Our U20s "B" team won the prestigious Toulon Tournament at the same time as our main U20 team was winning the world cup.
- Our U21s were semi finalists in the Euro Championships, losing on penalties to eventual champions Germany.
- Our U17s are hopefully headed for their World Cup Final.

Of the 6 major tournaments we've entered since June, we've won 3, got knocked out on penalties in 2, and are looking good in the 6th. We haven't been knocked out in 90 minutes in any tournament at any age group. It's a remarkable run.

With those in mind, I think it's totally valid to say our current youth teams are, collectively, the best in the world. The first time we can say that in a generation and more.

On top of this, our senior team have Kane, Alli, Rashford, Winks, Stones, Sterling etc, amongst others coming through. Talented youngsters who could be mainstays for a decade, supplemented by the stars coming through the 17-20 age group at the moment.

We need to get the transition to senior football right for these groups. It is the difference between a potential golden era or more failure.

IMO the transition between U20's and U21 is the problem

The U21's may of reached the semi finals but they only beat Poland and Slovakia in the tournament

When we get to U21's we no longer have enough playing time amongst our most talented youngsters to justify their selection or they have missed the experience of playing time and are starting to stagnate

 

[Ron Burgundy]

IMO the transition between U20's and U21 is the problem

The U21's may of reached the semi finals but they only beat Poland and Slovakia in the tournament

When we get to U21's we no longer have enough playing time amongst our most talented youngsters to justify their selection or they have missed the experience of playing time and are starting to stagnate

Is that a problem? The point is the quality of the youth vintages is getting consistently better. Great to see

 

[kmk]

This a list of golden boot winners from previous U17 world cups.

I hope that Rhian Brewster has more success than Florent Sinama Pongolle, Carlos Vela and Souleymane Coulibaly.

 

[Lemon]

Every one of our age group teams from U16 up (don't follow any younger than that!) are amongst the best in the world right now.

- Our U19s won their Euros this summer
- Our U17s were runners up, losing the final on penalties
- Our U20s won their World Cup
- Our U20s "B" team won the prestigious Toulon Tournament at the same time as our main U20 team was winning the world cup.
- Our U21s were semi finalists in the Euro Championships, losing on penalties to eventual champions Germany.
- Our U17s are hopefully headed for their World Cup Final.

Of the 6 major tournaments we've entered since June, we've won 3, got knocked out on penalties in 2, and are looking good in the 6th. We haven't been knocked out in 90 minutes in any tournament at any age group. It's a remarkable run.

With those in mind, I think it's totally valid to say our current youth teams are, collectively, the best in the world. The first time we can say that in a generation and more.

On top of this, our senior team have Kane, Alli, Rashford, Winks, Stones, Sterling etc, amongst others coming through. Talented youngsters who could be mainstays for a decade, supplemented by the stars coming through the 17-20 age group at the moment.

We need to get the transition to senior football right for these groups. It is the difference between a potential golden era or more failure.

When you lay it out like that, the English are coming.

It will take a major travesty for this collective set of years U16-U21 to not take England seniors to Semis and Finals, nice.

 

[WiganSpur]

Every one of our age group teams from U16 up (don't follow any younger than that!) are amongst the best in the world right now.

- Our U19s won their Euros this summer
- Our U17s were runners up, losing the final on penalties
- Our U20s won their World Cup
- Our U20s "B" team won the prestigious Toulon Tournament at the same time as our main U20 team was winning the world cup.
- Our U21s were semi finalists in the Euro Championships, losing on penalties to eventual champions Germany.
- Our U17s are hopefully headed for their World Cup Final.

Of the 6 major tournaments we've entered since June, we've won 3, got knocked out on penalties in 2, and are looking good in the 6th. We haven't been knocked out in 90 minutes in any tournament at any age group. It's a remarkable run.

With those in mind, I think it's totally valid to say our current youth teams are, collectively, the best in the world. The first time we can say that in a generation and more.

On top of this, our senior team have Kane, Alli, Rashford, Winks, Stones, Sterling etc, amongst others coming through. Talented youngsters who could be mainstays for a decade, supplemented by the stars coming through the 17-20 age group at the moment.

We need to get the transition to senior football right for these groups. It is the difference between a potential golden era or more failure.

I'm afraid we will not be successful unless we develop coaches that know how to utilise the players' talents on the big stage.

 

[edson]

 

[IGSpur]

Winks was being eased in before injuries to others last season.His progress was only halted by his own injury.Which he admitted was still giving him pain this season.Hence dropping out of U21 squad earlier.As soon as has been fully fit he has featured.Edwards obviously isn’t ready and is still 18.TOB has featured at 17.KWP is being eased in.To Say poch doesn’t give kids a chance is ludicrous.

Edwards obviously isn't ready based off what? If it's this physique thing, that Poch says then fair enough but he is more than talented. We are all now crowing abotu English youth football. That Euro u19s was won because twice Edwards came off the bench during stalemates and turned the games, but because he didn't have a good game against APOEL in CL he now longer has talent. Players need to constantly be challenged above their ability to develop or they stagnate. TOB has played 2minutes. KWP has started one game and got MOTM and not been seen again. To say Poch doesn't give youth a great chance isn't ludicrous when he has only turned one from academy to first teamer in 4 years.

And Wenger doesn’t play these kids in league cup to bolster them.He does it to save his 1st squad.I remember 10 years ago Wenger being lorded for playing kids in league cup.How many of them actually progressed Ramsey wilshere iwobi Gibbs struggling to think of any others.Anyone can Just chuck kids in a league cup team.Is that really furthering them as players clearly not.Much better to drip them into PL games as poch does over a couple of seasons.

You just criticised Wenger for playing them but have praised Poch for giving TOB stoppage time minutes in LC. I'm also not lording Wenger. Wenger is as bad as every other PL manager at developing academy players including Poch. As I said Poch is significantly better at developing young players, so don't understand your point. This claim that Poch's methods are better are based purely off the fact that he is our manager and says it. There is no evidence to suggest it is the best method so far.

Little bit different for us this round of the League Cup though. There is a different expectation from Arsenal and their fans when they play 2nd tier Norwich compared to the expectations from us and our fans when we play against West Ham. If we were playing lower opposition I would expect to see a similar team sheet to Arsenals, perhaps not in a major London derby though.

In saying that, I hope we still see some of the younger guys and I hope that one of Edwards/Shashoua/Bennetts make the bench at least as well as Georgiou and KWP being in the squad.

Fair point, but look at the Burnely match. What was the excuse there? KWP made his 3rd competitive start as a 20 year old and Winks played.

I just can’t see anyone in Academy that is crying out pick me apart from Edwards.I think TOB totally disproves not giving people a chance.Poch has Obviously seen something in him and effectively he has leap frogged Edwards.The fact is Edwards was making bench in Cup last season and travelling in CL.So for whatever reason he seems to have gone backwards.As said for me TOB shows if he thinks you’re ready you will get your chance.

I don't know if you mean a first team regular, which no one has said. Unless you mean to be considered for chances. Well according to you Edwards, Bennetts, Tanganga and TOB should all be getting chances from previous posts so maybe them? TOB also disprovies absolutely nothing. And ask the manager who has managed, Edwards' development why he has gone backwards

Oakley-Boothe's had a really patchy half, I'm still not sure on him. I know others (including Poch!) really like him so I've generally kept my mouth shut, but he has pretty big holes in his game IMO.

Sorry, I'm not debating Edwards' talent, that's clear. My point really is whether talent is the only determining factor as to whether or not he should be involved. And then beyond that, do his performances this season show that he should be given opportunities. I'm asking because I don't know, from the odd report I've read, it sounds like he's scored a lot of penalties, had the odd game where he's been very good, and then a fair few where he's been a bit on the periphery. I desperately want him involved and to come good, I just find it hard to really hold it all together.

I don't think it is the only determining factor, but I guess some consideration must be given to the fact young players won't be the finished article and some adjustments should be made. We and the rest of England are literally shelling incredible talent as they aren't strong enough or their work rate apparently isn't good enough. It's like we if all PL managers combined could be represented by one manager wrt bringing through academy players, it'd be Boothroyd. I guess the question is are the club and England willing to sacrifice incredible amount of talent, if they aren't the finished product at 19

Brewster is still shit ahahaha Literally all Been 5 Yard tap ins.

By no means do I think Brewster is the best player in this attack as I've said before but he is a good striker and that post shows a lot of ignorance. It's literally what every other clubs fans have criticsied Kane for for 3 years.

The more I see, the more I think Phil Foden is the player we all think Marcus Edwards is.

And when City don't give him a chance in the next 2 years, fans will forget Foden and question whether he was really that good and move onto the enxt player. I've said I believe Foden is as good or depending on situation better than Sancho, but Edwards is still quality. Edwards and Foden are on the same level at the same age I reckon. Fodne is quality as is Edwards, Edwards is just the one being stifled at the moment. We'll see what is being said of Foden at 19. I pray City give Foden a chance and we give Edwards chance. Edwards playing with better players around him will look even better. He is probably unmotivatedd watching player catch up and overtake him. When Milos was in his last year with us, stagnating in the u21s, everyone said he looked rubbish and deserved not to be playing for us, now he is considered a 'genius' for Werder Bremen and going to the World Cup. Psycholgoists say you need to be taken out of your comfort zone in order to develop, this is why it is important to increase the challenges and stress on your best players.

 

[coys200]

England have never had success like this across all age groups at same time.Tbh last season U21 were pretty average.The quality starts from last seasons U20 -U17.Even if we can find decent CM and CB to add to Kane dele Rashford sterling winks England will be in pretty good shape.Something will have to go dramatically wrong for likes of sancho Hudson odoi Foden Sessegnon chalobah(younger CB) Nelson de silva to not make it.

 

[IGSpur]

So proud of this England group and really hope they win the World Cup. Today's game was a brilliantly competitive between 2 quality teams. It's been great following this group for the last 2 years and it makes me proud seeing how they represent us. I pray they go on to win, as they deserved the Euros victory.

TOB hasn't looked as dynamic as he used to but he seems to be fulfilling a role for England> i think he has generally knitted things together well, and him and McEachran make a good partnership. But if people think Onomah is poor defensively and lazy, well he worked twice as hard as TOB in all age groups and took so much more responsibility. From what I have seen of TOB he hasn't progressed as I'd hoped, but like Winks he has a style of play that will allow him to easily fit into the first team, and though he hasn't developed as hoped or played as well as he did at u16s he is more than good enough to be a PL player and do the sitting role for us in the future. Either way this has been a great experience for him and I will be chuffed if he wins this

The EPPP has done it's job in that England have the best academy players in the world, but it is counter productive as it funnels them towards the PL, where they will unlikely get any first team opportunities. If City, Chelesa, ours Arsenal's academies were given to League One clubs England would be in great shape. However, we waste talent for fun, but the exposure England youth football has got over the summer may hopefully help.

 

[coys200]

Stand by that Brewster is nothing special.Was woeful in group games apart from 1 free kick.He’s playing in a quality team.Getting loads of simple tap ins.Ive seen absolutely nothing else in his game in the 6 matches I’ve watched him.Reminds me of people being fooled into thinking iheanacho was decent.He Just tapped in a plethora of open goals.Idiots May mock Kane as a tap in merchant ,But dele actually scores more tap ins than Kane.If Brewster makes it at a top club I’ll streak at the new stadium lol.

 

[IGSpur]

Something will have to go dramatically wrong for likes of sancho Hudson odoi Foden Sessegnon chalobah(younger CB) Nelson de silva to not make it.

You have no idea how much talent has been wasted, and I won't be surprised to see it done again, except there is even more and better talent to waste. Funny thing is in England occasionally a player will come through and sometimes their not even the best player in that position in the club let alone England. And people will be content and say, well look how well we have done bringing him through, or you can't expect more than one to be good enough in an age group not many are good enough, and I think about all the players better than them that are lost. Well I pray this changes.

 

[IGSpur]

Stand by that Brewster is nothing special.Was woeful in group games apart from 1 free kick.He’s playing in a quality team.Getting loads of simple tap ins.Ive seen absolutely nothing else in his game in the 6 matches I’ve watched him.Reminds me of people being fooled into thinking iheanacho was decent.He Just tapped in a plethora of open goals.Idiots May mock Kane as a tap in merchant ,But dele actually scores more tap ins than Kane.If Brewster makes it at a top club I’ll streak at the new stadium lol.

Brewster is of course benefiting from a great attack and has wasted a lot of chances but he is young and developing. Kane looks great for us and terrible for England the players you play with and the manager make a big difference. Akindayini used to bag for us, but that was because of the players he played with, I wasn't fooled. Brewster has a lot more about him.

It goes to show how great Chelsea's academy is that they released Brewster as they had CHO and released Nketiah as they had Martell Taylor-Crossdale.

Iheanacho was also a very good wasted talent.

EDIT - Just found out Chelsea are starting Empadu. This is a player that had trials at various clubs, I believe noen decided to take him on. Empadu wasn't good enough to get into the 00 age group which at different points, has featured around 7 Chelsea players. He then instead chose to play for Wales u17s as he was good enough for them. He was good enough to play Exeter first team and then called up for Wales. Now Chelsea have signed him and put him into the first team, ahead of the players he showed he wasn't better than at various England camps. God England make me pull my hair out

 

[IGSpur]

Can't remember if I ever posted this article but I was looking for something the other day and came across it again. Things never change but it will be even more of a calamity if we waste this. And while we're not as extreme as the big 2 yes some of the article also applies to us, and other PL clubs

https://youthhawk.wordpress.com/201...dern-english-youth-football-a-deconstruction/

 

[IGSpur]

Poch has to weigh the impact on senior players - who want to play as much as possible, and academy players who want to develop as quickly as possible, and ownership who want results more than they want development (and, while Levy and Co want player development, they want results even more).

This implies that using our academy players have ever had a detrimental effect on the first team. Every single youth player that has ever been given a chance in the PL, through luck or not, has never been shown up as not being good enough for top flight football. So why would you believe that the best would negative affect us. In his first season it was our academy that saved Poch. Our best player and closest to World Class is an academy player. Now the only one Poch has managed to give chances too has depending on who you ask got 3 MOTM in a row for England and against Liverpool and Real Madrid. I remember having this debate about Winks and Onomah being good enough 2 years ago where someone said, ye we have Kane and Bentaleb but you can't believe that Winks or the other will also be good enough for a top 4 or CL club.

These players will not affect our results. They have all been good enough and the ones who have been given chances are arguably not even our best. They will make us better as they strengthen the squad, first team and allow us to spend more money elsewhere (which should make everyone happy). This will make us undoubtedly stronger

I generally disagree with this belief of the meritocracy in PL football and at Spurs. Each to their own but the lack of talent to come through England compared to other countries indicates to me that, despite our youth players proving again and again they're better than other nations, ours never get their chance but we end up buying theirs. How does that happen in a meritocracy. How are their players good enough for us but not ours.

 

[coys200]

Brewster is of course benefiting from a great attack and has wasted a lot of chances but he is young and developing. Kane looks great for us and terrible for England the players you play with and the manager make a big difference. Akindayini used to bag for us, but that was because of the players he played with, I wasn't fooled. Brewster has a lot more about him.

It goes to show how great Chelsea's academy is that they released Brewster as they had CHO and released Nketiah as they had Martell Taylor-Crossdale.

Iheanacho was also a very good wasted talent.

Kane terrible for England?hes single handily qualified England in the last 4 or 5 games.And jury still out on iheanacho but he does look a potential lemon.

 

[IGSpur]

Kane terrible for England?hes single handily qualified England in the last 4 or 5 games.And jury still out on iheanacho but he does look a potential lemon.

Well I don't think Kane plays particularly well for England, but has taken his chances when he has. Surely you can't objectively think Kane plays as well for England as he does us, and why do you think that is?

 

[Lilbaz]

Well I don't think Kane plays particularly well for England, but has taken his chances when he has. Surely you can't objectively think Kane plays as well for England as he does us, and why do you think that is?

Wembley hoodoo?

 

[Blake Griffin]

KWP has started one game and got MOTM and not been seen again.

true but at least he'll get a game toni ..

no, wait, never mind.

 

[spurs9]

true but at least he'll get a game toni ..

no, wait, never mind.

Just seen that, that is pretty disappointing tbh.